Problem w/Zeke’s Contract

[Kaiser]

he blame is based on old arguments posters lost months ago and they feel they are vindicated now that we are losing. Pretty pathetic really.

Exactly, everyone wants to complain when the whole team lays a big floater like this so they revert to whatever they complained about in the past.

 

[TheTruthIsOutThere]

Jerry has gotten fleeced in the contracts he signed in the offseason.

Zeke did look good today. My biggest problem with him is that he keeps Pollard off the field and it really does seem like Pollard could be a weapon for us

3.8 a carry isn't great, he got his yards because of quantity.

 

[Tussinman]

Zeke will never lead the league in rushing again , and will be cut in years.

Despite lower than usual touches in the Greenbay/New York game (packers game due to them being down so much early and Giants game due to him holding out) he's still 6th in the league in rushing. If they keep pounding the ball to him I don't see how he's at least not in contention for rushing leader, especially if they get Tyron/Collins back soon

 

[aria]

Despite lower than usual touches in the Greenbay/New York game (packers game due to them being down so much early and Giants game due to him holding out) he's still 6th in the league in rushing. If they keep pounding the ball to him I don't see how he's at least not in contention for rushing leader, especially if they get Tyron/Collins back soon

He hasn’t even faced a top 15 rush defense yet.

 

[Tussinman]

He hasn’t even faced a top 15 rush defense yet.

Exactly. The schedule even favors him as well (they still have a handful of bottom top 15 rush defense teams remaining).

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

In a perfect world you are correct.
Just read some of these people that have been bashing their RB since he was drafted because they didnt get their pet cat ramsey.
Then they pounded their chest when Zeke held out and swore Jerry wouldnt pay him.
Then after they were wrong twice on Zeke they come here and bash him and his salary because the team lost.

I wish you were right. But this is the internet and we have a troll problem around here.

Well, I guess that's me you refer to. I was not in favor of drafting Zeke. I was actually in favor of trading down or taking Ramsey but I suppose that's here nor there. I just think you are looking at this from an angel that is too narrow. Again, this is not a personal thing against Zeke, for a lot of people. It's about the value of RB and the wisdom of using such a valuable asset as 4th overall on a RB.

A lot of people didn't think we should extend Zeke but many more didn't believe we should have done it early. I mean, even now, I don't see the value in that decision by the team. I still don't agree that we should have extended Zeke early but it's done. I just think it's a bigger picture and a series of decisions that don't favor the team, at least at this point.

All of this is hinged on the over arching decision of what happens at the HC position, for me. Perhaps I am stupid and just foolishly believe that at some point, Garrett will be replaced and that might happen this year, assuming we are not successful. If that is the case, I am not a big believer in saddling any new HC with long term contracts that lock them in to any given scheme. If we bring in a new HC, we may not see the running game as a staple of our offense any longer. This really hurts us, in terms of any deal such as the one we currently have with Zeke. If that happens, this deal is going to look x10 fold worse for most fans. I was never in favor of this deal, as I have said, but I do like the idea that we limited ourselves to a relative short term if we need to get out of it, for specifically the reasons I give above. I don't look at it as poorly, only because I like who it was structured but I don't discount the position a lot fans take on this because we don't know what's going to happen yet. This could all get worse and we could be looking at a new HC and we don't know if RB is going to play a big a role.

There is a lot up in the air at this point and I understand the position of many. I don't see them as wrong. I see them as worried and that's understandable IMO.

 

[Joe Realist]

Ah, how we miss that 2016 opportunity.

 

[Sydla]

I did


You pointed to teams winning without paying big money to running backs. Those teams have good coaching and or good quarterback play


We have neither.

But then your logic and response is that because we have questionable QB play and questionable coaching, you have to hand a TB, that you readily admit may have lost a little burst, the highest contract in the league?

And then, when he doesn't play well or have a big game, you turrn around and blame the QB and the coach for his performance?

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds?

 

[beware_d-ware]

Zeke's inefficiency yesterday was built on predictable run plays. If I am sitting on my couch and know that the Cowboys going under center on first down is going to be a run play, God knows what Gregg Williams can see. And he's feeding that directly into his linebacker's helmet.

Zeke carries more value in the passing game than people realize IMO, mainly because we seldom use him in it. He has good hands and blocks like a mother - I kept an eye on him yesterday, and he was making some big blocks in the backfield for Dak when the Jets blitzed. If he blew a block, I didn't see it. And he had the lead block on Dak's TD run.

So here's my proposal. It's clear to me that while Dak has developed a lot in 4 years, one thing he's hasn't done well is fix his footwork on drop-backs. Even when we do throw from under center, it's either going to be a bootleg play or a 3 step drop and a throw to a hitch route. He's just not trusted to execute any longer developing 5 or 7 step plays.

So let's scrap the predictable 1st down under center stuff and go directly into shotgun. Utilize Zeke's skillset to muddle the playcall. If we want to run it, Zeke can still do that. If we want to throw downfield on 1st like we should be doing more, Dak is more comfortable doing it from the shotgun, and Zeke can either block for him or leak out. If we want a quick hitter, we can feed Zeke an extended handoff with the patented Linehan LOS hitch or on a flare out. Rather than Zeke handling 28 carries and 4 catches, I'd rather have him get about 15 carries and 6-8 catches, with Pollard picking up whatever slack.

And I know this thread isn't supposed to be about Jaylon and Lawrence, but it's kind of turned into that, so let me say: D-Law is playing with 3 separate injuries, and I suspect Jaylon is playing hurt too. Have some patience with them.

 

[superonyx]

Well, I guess that's me you refer to. I was not in favor of drafting Zeke. I was actually in favor of trading down or taking Ramsey but I suppose that's here nor there. I just think you are looking at this from an angel that is too narrow. Again, this is not a personal thing against Zeke, for a lot of people. It's about the value of RB and the wisdom of using such a valuable asset as 4th overall on a RB.

A lot of people didn't think we should extend Zeke but many more didn't believe we should have done it early. I mean, even now, I don't see the value in that decision by the team. I still don't agree that we should have extended Zeke early but it's done. I just think it's a bigger picture and a series of decisions that don't favor the team, at least at this point.

All of this is hinged on the over arching decision of what happens at the HC position, for me. Perhaps I am stupid and just foolishly believe that at some point, Garrett will be replaced and that might happen this year, assuming we are not successful. If that is the case, I am not a big believer in saddling any new HC with long term contracts that lock them in to any given scheme. If we bring in a new HC, we may not see the running game as a staple of our offense any longer. This really hurts us, in terms of any deal such as the one we currently have with Zeke. If that happens, this deal is going to look x10 fold worse for most fans. I was never in favor of this deal, as I have said, but I do like the idea that we limited ourselves to a relative short term if we need to get out of it, for specifically the reasons I give above. I don't look at it as poorly, only because I like who it was structured but I don't discount the position a lot fans take on this because we don't know what's going to happen yet. This could all get worse and we could be looking at a new HC and we don't know if RB is going to play a big a role.

There is a lot up in the air at this point and I understand the position of many. I don't see them as wrong. I see them as worried and that's understandable IMO.

I believe strongly that you are over valuing Zeke's contract. This isnt like we are saddled with 30M per year. Heck the guy counts 6.5M against our cap this year. The average contract value is 12.75m.
I am just imagining a coach who would want this job actually thinking this position is somehow less attractive because we are buried under the talent of Zeke Elliott. I just can't imagine a coach wishing he had less talent on the field.

This type of fear could be realized at the QB position where you may have a guy wanted a mobile QB and you have a Flacco statue signed.

The non stop Zeke bashing and the non stop crying over his contract is bizarre. I've never seen anything like it.

 

[WillieBeamen]

But then your logic and response is that because we have questionable QB play and questionable coaching, you have to hand a TB, that you readily admit may have lost a little burst, the highest contract in the league?

And then, when he doesn't play well or have a big game, you turrn around and blame the QB and the coach for his performance?

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds?

I literally said none of that


This Site full of liars

 

[Sydla]

I literally said none of that


This Site full of liars

I totally misread a post a few pages back, when you said this:

I didnt say nothing about him not losing burst

My bad.

But you have said we had to pay Zeke because the coach stinks and the QB isn't good and you have tried to give Zeke a pass when coach and QB suck. You can't have it both ways. If Zeke is this elite TB that is a game changer and is here because we need to overcome a bad QB and coach, you can't then turn around and try to give him a pass because of the QB and coach.

If Zeke is this important and great, he should be able to overcome suspect QB play at times. But he can't. And that's no fault of his own. He just plays in a league where coaching and QB play is more important to wins than the TB.

Which is why I am against paying any TB big money. They don't have as much as an effect on games as the QB and coach.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I believe strongly that you are over valuing Zeke's contract. This isnt like we are saddled with 30M per year. Heck the guy counts 6.5M against our cap this year. The average contract value is 12.75m.
I am just imagining a coach who would want this job actually thinking this position is somehow less attractive because we are buried under the talent of Zeke Elliott. I just can't imagine a coach wishing he had less talent on the field.

This type of fear could be realized at the QB position where you may have a guy wanted a mobile QB and you have a Flacco statue signed.

The non stop Zeke bashing and the non stop crying over his contract is bizarre. I've never seen anything like it.

Why would you think that? I am very familiar with the terms of the contract. I don't believe I am overvaluing it but more to the point, I don't believe this is about values. It's about doing something contractually when we didn't have to.

Zeke isn't getting bashed on this board none stop. That's not what I'm seeing. I think he gets his share but I feel as if the focus is on Garrett, the D and Dak, much more heavily. Of course, there is always a certain amount on Jerry but that comes with the territory, so to speak. Doesn't matter, I don't think you get into this game without the expectation of dealing with a certain level of this kind of thing. If you aren't able to accept that, then you probably aren't cut out for Professional Football. I can't believe you would say that you've never seen anything like this before though. I remember this with Troy Aikman and long after he signed his record deal. This has gone on every since the Cap has been introduced so I really see this more as a cap effect rather then people being envious over money athletes are being paid or whatever other existential reasoning implied etc.

I guess we see it differently.

 

[WillieBeamen]

I totally misread a post a few pages back, when you said this:



My bad.

But you have said we had to pay Zeke because the coach stinks and the QB isn't good and you have tried to give Zeke a pass when coach and QB suck. You can't have it both ways. If Zeke is this elite TB that is a game changer and is here because we need to overcome a bad QB and coach, you can't then turn around and try to give him a pass because of the QB and coach.

If Zeke is this important and great, he should be able to overcome suspect QB play at times. But he can't. And that's no fault of his own. He just plays in a league where coaching and QB play is more important to wins than the TB.

Which is why I am against paying any TB big money. They don't have as much as an effect on games as the QB and coach.

Dude what are you talking about right now?

Zeke has been “bad” in one game this season, the Saints game. The other games he was either under utilized because of the score or the passing game was clicking.
Down 21-6 in the second half, whose number did the team and the head coach call on to bring us back? It damn sure wasnt the quarterback. It was Zeke. And he almost did it too if it werent for a horrible field goal kicker, and horrible coaching once again

 

[Sydla]

Dude what are you talking about right now?

Zeke has been “bad” in one game this season, the Saints game. The other games he was either under utilized because of the score or the passing game was clicking.
Down 21-6 in the second half, whose number did the team and the head coach call on to bring us back? It damn sure wasnt the quarterback. It was Zeke. And he almost did it too if it werent for a horrible field goal kicker, and horrible coaching once again

What are you talking about?

They are 3-3. The TB can't overcome bad coaching and bad QB play.

Hence why it's foolish to put so many assets into a position that doesn't have nearly the same effect on outcomes of games. If you think Zeke has played well thus far and we are still only 3-3 what's that tell you? To any sane person it tells you that the TB doesn't have nearly the same effect on a game as the QB or coach. So spending a crap ton of money on one is probably foolish, especially if you think you have a bad coach and middling QB.

You can't argue that the TB needed to be paid because he's a game changer and then watch him not be able to actually "change" games because a TB's influence in the outcome of a game is always going to be less than that of the QB and coach.

 

[WillieBeamen]

What are you talking about?

They are 3-3. The TB can't overcome bad coaching and bad QB play.

Hence why it's foolish to put so many assets into a position that doesn't have nearly the same effect on outcomes of games. If you think Zeke has played well thus far and we are still only 3-3 what's that tell you? To any sane person it tells you that the TB doesn't have nearly the same effect on a game as the QB or coach. So spending a crap ton of money on one is probably foolish, especially if you think you have a bad coach and middling QB.

You can't argue that the TB needed to be paid because he's a game changer and then watch him not be able to actually "change" games because a TB's influence in the outcome of a game is always going to be less than that of the QB and coach.

Once again ima ask, what are you talking about?

What player or position in this sport can overcome deficiencies all across the board? Starting from the Gm, the quarterback, and the head coach?

There isnt one, so you singling out Zeke makes no sense.

What you are really arguing right now is Pollard can play and the results would be the same and that is a mind-blowingly dumb way of thinking.


“Hey, Dak is on the verge if being paid $35m a season but we are losing anyways. Its stupid paying him that much money because the rest of the team and franchise sucks!!!”

 

[superonyx]

Why would you think that? I am very familiar with the terms of the contract. I don't believe I am overvaluing it but more to the point, I don't believe this is about values. It's about doing something contractually when we didn't have to.

Zeke isn't getting bashed on this board none stop. That's not what I'm seeing. I think he gets his share but I feel as if the focus is on Garrett, the D and Dak, much more heavily. Of course, there is always a certain amount on Jerry but that comes with the territory, so to speak. Doesn't matter, I don't think you get into this game without the expectation of dealing with a certain level of this kind of thing. If you aren't able to accept that, then you probably aren't cut out for Professional Football. I can't believe you would say that you've never seen anything like this before though. I remember this with Troy Aikman and long after he signed his record deal. This has gone on every since the Cap has been introduced so I really see this more as a cap effect rather then people being envious over money athletes are being paid or whatever other existential reasoning implied etc.

I guess we see it differently.

Maybe its a cowboys thing. The national spotlight maybe. I live in the philly/baltimore metro market and I've never seen the Eagles fans complain and cut down one of their players based on contract the way Cowboys fans do. Fletcher Cox signed a huge contract and immediately his numbers drop. Alshon Jeffery is cashing big checks but his impact isnt that great. The philly fans which are the worst in the country seem to cry less over players contracts than Cowboys fans. The philly fans get behind their stars more than the cowboys fans do. Its truly bizarre and also sad.

 

[superonyx]

Once again ima ask, what are you talking about?

What player or position in this sport can overcome deficiencies all across the board? Starting from the Gm, the quarterback, and the head coach?

There isnt one, so you singling out Zeke makes no sense.

What you are really arguing right now is Pollard can play and the results would be the same and that is a mind-blowingly dumb way of thinking.


“Hey, Dak is on the verge if being paid $35m a season but we are losing anyways. Its stupid paying him that much money because the rest of the team and franchise sucks!!!”

These guys have no argument. They move the goalpost all the time in an effort to justify their opinions.

I don't know if these people really believe what they are saying or if they are just trying to get their rocks off thinking they won an internet argument.
Toxic people.

 

[Sydla]

Once again ima ask, what are you talking about?

What player or position in this sport can overcome deficiencies all across the board? Starting from the Gm, the quarterback, and the head coach?

There isnt one, so you singling out Zeke makes no sense.

What you are really arguing right now is Pollard can play and the results would be the same and that is a mind-blowingly dumb way of thinking.


“Hey, Dak is on the verge if being paid $35m a season but we are losing anyways. Its stupid paying him that much money because the rest of the team and franchise sucks!!!”

If we pay Dak $35MM at this point, that would be even more idiotic. Jerry should shelve any contract talk at this point until after the season.

Actually, I think if Elliott had gotten hurt in the last week of camp, our record would be exactly the same as it is now given who we have played.

 

[Sydla]

These guys have no argument. They move the goalpost all the time in an effort to justify their opinions.

I don't know if these people really believe what they are saying or if they are just trying to get their rocks off thinking they won an internet argument.
Toxic people.

What goal post did I move?

I have said for multiple years, spending a lot of resources on the TB position in a QB driven league is silly. It's not something new I came up with and its not personal to Zeke. I'd say the same thing if we had Barkley or Kamara or Gurley. I didn't want to pay Murray back in 2015.

Toxic people? LOL. Typical response from people who don't like their loyalty to players questioned. People gotta be "haterz!!!!"