Phantom calls

DogFace

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Hawkeye19 said:
Poor officiating is not just a problem— it is single-handedly destroying the integrity of the product on the field.

Solution:

Take away the coaches’ ability to challenge call and instead— The NFL employs a neutral 3rd party that sits in a sky box that evaluates the flow and calls during every game. They have the power to over-rule any penalty called that is not a penalty, and they can call a penalty on any play where a severe infraction occurs but was not flagged.

Before everyone freaks out about slowing the game down— hear me out. I am not advocating for arbitrating ticky tack calls. I am only advocating for accountability on egregious calls that clearly affect pivotal moments in a game.

A system like this actually protects the refs and the NFL. It would also restore confidence in the fans that games are being called fairly. It would also discourage refs from throwing too many flags in fear that they may get publicly overturned.

In short— I believe a system like this would result in fewer flags— not more. It would also eliminate the huge game-changing errors that are affecting too many outcomes at the moment.
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I’d like some system like that except let the coaches still challenge a couple calls.

Neutral and impartial would be a tough sell, but maybe it’s possible.
 
OmerV

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gimmesix said:
First, I'm not complaining about the officiating in our game Sunday night. In fact, it looked to me that we should have been penalized at least for illegal contact on the flag the refs picked up.

Second, these phantom calls might not be the ones that you think they are. I didn't like the two calls that went against us on the Eagles' TD drive, but I could at least see the reason those calls were made.

The two calls I'm talking about were in the third quarter, and I'm seeing if anyone maybe saw something I didn't when I went back and rewatched what happened. Both of our players motioned that they couldn't believe the calls were on them when they were made, and I agree with them. We still overcame them to score, so they weren't that big of a deal, but these are the kind of calls that kill us in close game.

The first one was a false start on Connor Williams. I've watched it several times and I see no indication that Williams was moving before Frederick snapped the ball. Williams was totally baffled by the call.

The second was holding against Dalton Schultz. Schultz lined up on the right side on a run that went left. He got out on the second level and engaged a defensive back, ultimately pushing him to the ground. I couldn't see any kind of pull or grab, and assume the call was made because the DB went to the ground. Schultz clearly shoved him, though, instead of grabbing him and throwing him. Schultz was pointing up at the big screen as he left the field to show that he did nothing wrong.

Did anyone notice something that I missed?
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I backed up and took a second look at the one against Williams, and you can see Williams come up out of his stance earlier than others on the O-Line, but I really couldn't tell if it was prior to the snap or not. It may just have been that he was quicker than the others, and the ref assumed he had moved early.

I agree the call on Schultz was a mystery.

I don't get too worked up about these things though because I sometimes see things I think we get away with that should have been called.
 
AbeBeta

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shabazz said:
That has happened on many occasions. The networks are vested in maintaining credibility towards the product they pay millions to bring to viewers. Pretty much like getting the NBA and it’s players to be honest about the Human Rights Violations in China. As in everything, just follow the money
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The networks are making those decisions in real time? Sure they are. Never mind the numerous times each week where announcers actively question penalties.
 
Dallasfann

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The NFL is in the money making business. Refs are always trying to keep the score close. When we were up 14-0 I texted my friend who is an Eagle fan and said, you watch we will get a bull **** flag thrown on us. 2 minutes later Jaylon Smith got flagged for an roughing the passer on 3rd down. Phone vibrates seconds after..."Haha" responds my Eagle friend. They don't want blow outs on National TV.
 

Playmaker3128

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I feel bad for the team who plays the saints in the playoffs this year. Say what you want but its human nature after what happened to them last year, the refs will be hesitant to call anything big against them in my opinion. Meanwhile theyll get every close call. Definitely isn't right, but whoever plays them will have to overcome this.
 
gimmesix

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OmerV said:
I don't get too worked up about these things though because I sometimes see things I think we get away with that should have been called.
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Every team does, which is what makes it more perplexing on the ones they decide to call. And I think that's what frustrates fans.
 

Playmaker3128

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One other thing i don't like that the refs do. In my opinion they are scared of bellicheck cause they know he can have influence on the league. So there not more inclined to throw penalties against him as opposed to what happened when the ref argued with Garret a couple weeks ago.

Last night the pats are blowing out the Jets, it gives the refs an opportunity to throw "meaningless flags" against NE. That way at end of the year when the penalty discrepancy comes out they can just point to the numbers. Even though everyone in the world knows they get all those calls in a close game.
 
gimmesix

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Hawkeye19 said:
Take away the coaches’ ability to challenge call and instead— The NFL employs a neutral 3rd party that sits in a sky box that evaluates the flow and calls during every game. They have the power to over-rule any penalty called that is not a penalty, and they can call a penalty on any play where a severe infraction occurs but was not flagged.
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I've been in favor of this for a while. With today's technology, an official in the booth can review a play before an official even has time to say what the penalty is and who it is on. This obviously can be overused because penalties can be called on just about any play, but someone should not only be looking for obvious infractions that affected the play but also at plays where the on-field officials saw something that was not there, like last week's OPI in the end zone that they called on Witten's TD.

The TV broadcast showed us a replay of that quickly enough that the decision could have been overturned without much time needed to do it. I wouldn't mind waiting a second or two if needed for someone in the booth to confirm or reject what the official saw on the field BEFORE the penalty is announced.
 
OmerV

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Mr_C said:
Sure was helmet to helmet. I’m just not sure how to avoid that. The facemasks hit because they stick out several inches form the face.
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There was some helmet contact, but I think the DB got away with it for several reasons. First because you could clearly see he was trying to lead with his shoulder and not his helmet, second because it was clear he wasn't targeting Cooper's helmet, and third because Cooper caught the pass. Stay with me on that last one …

The 3rd reason is really the interesting one in that I believe officials would have been more likely to call "hitting a defenseless receiver" had the receiver dropped the ball, but with him catching the pass the officials gave the DB a little more leeway since he has to be allowed to make a tackle. That's a pretty fine line to walk, but I don't necessarily think that's a conscious mindset. I just think it may alter how the official perceives the play.
 
ElGatoGrande

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Kaiser said:
I was really surprised how well the officials did in this game. I didn't see any calls that jumped out as horrible calls, when we had four of those (all against Dallas) in the Packers game.

And the way this year is going in the NFL, even if these were bad calls we should still rejoice and sacrifice animals to the Gods because it was only two of them.
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The more I witness of the officiating downfall the more I'm convinced it's all tied to ratings and money, which is surprising considering how much it is damaging the product. I don't think the NFL sees it that way though, no doubt they have their own statisticians and polling outfits crunching numbers and telling them they need more points and marquee quarterbacks slotted for the big games. That's why teams like Green Bay with Aaron Rogers get treated like royalty with the Michael Jordan rules in place and everyone else gets a mish-mash of home team calls, personal agendas or just flat out incompetence.
 
OmerV

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ElGatoGrande said:
The more I witness of the officiating downfall the more I'm convinced it's all tied to ratings and money, which is surprising considering how much it is damaging the product. I don't think the NFL sees it that way though, no doubt they have their own statisticians and polling outfits crunching numbers and telling them they need more points and marquee quarterbacks slotted for the big games. That's why teams like Green Bay with Aaron Rogers get treated like royalty with the Michael Jordan rules in place and everyone else gets a mish-mash of home team calls, personal agendas or just flat out incompetence.
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The thing I always wonder is whether the officiating is really that much worse than it was years ago (it certainly seems that way), or is some of that just perception because every call is replayed, and often shown multiple times and from multiple camera angles. In short, there is so much emphasis on the calls and so much scrutiny of the calls that we notice it more than we used to. Another factor may be that today there are so many media sources covering sports 24 hours a day that topics like this are constantly being talked about.

When I was a kid (shortly after fire was discovered) it seemed when there was a call we thought was incorrect we might get upset, and the announcer might mention the call was questionable, but the TV coverage just moved on to the next play without giving us a lot of discussion and replay to dwell on. Admittedly, that could result in a different perception than we have in today's world.
 

Silverz1972

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The flag they picked up... the ball was uncatchable

the Armani play...normally they don’t call it if the receiver doesn’t extend their arms. Cooper did not extend his arms.
 
Praxit

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....from angle cant see Schultz holding, but because the nature of play and his position he might have.
 
CF74

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Whoever is down a few scores typically gets help from the zebras. It’s becoming more and more obvious to people who pay attention...
 
Kaiser

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ElGatoGrande said:
The more I witness of the officiating downfall the more I'm convinced it's all tied to ratings and money, which is surprising considering how much it is damaging the product.
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Totally agree, but I think the average fan doesn't follow it as closely as us fanatics do. The average Joe on his couch doesn't go to the level us ubernerds do.
 
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