Phantom calls

[Kaiser]

When I was a kid (shortly after fire was discovered) it seemed when there was a call we thought was incorrect we might get upset,

It was the same when I was a kid but my Dad had DirecTV CavePaint 24 so I could go back and review the drawings on the cave walls afterward.

 

[Hot_Toddy]

I think it's just a tough job and they are often bad at it (as most of us probably would be given all the rules they have to enforce). It would be easy from some of the calls made against us to believe the refs or league is out to get us, but I really think it is just mostly bad luck of the draw. However, some things are probably tendency things, such as some quarterbacks always drawing personal foul calls. Quarterbacks like Romo and Prescott don't play up when they are hit, pointing to their heads or turning immediately to the official. Others like Aaron Rodgers get hit and seem to just signal the officials that it's time to throw a flag.

You make an excellent point regarding QB's in this post Gimme!

No, I don't think the refs are out to get the Cowboys. Refs are human, tough to see some things live etc. But, one phantom call that had me shaking my head was the Lions vs. Packers game. the ref was right there, and called a hands to the face when it wasn't even close. The refs handed the Packers that game.

I agree, Dak should turn to the refs immediately if there is a bad/late hit on him with no flag.

That is a very good point. Dak does just get up and keep playing after blatant hits on him. And Romo did the same.

 

[ghst187]

Other than every game against Green Bay, I don’t feel like we are specifically targeted by refs, I feel like overall the officiating is just horrible quality.

 

[Don Corleone]

Pretty sure they do that on purpose.

The NFL would have a vested interest in not showing replays of penalties, I would think.

Their ad revenue also depends on fans watching the whole game. They have no vested interest in blowout games. I don't believe the game is rigged, but I do believe the refs are instructed to make calls at opportune times to keep the game from getting away. This ensures the audience stays tuned and doesn't turn the TV off.

 

[Runwildboys]

CW did appear to move just an instant before the snap.

Schultz had his right hand on the outside of the defender's shoulder pad but normally that only get's called if the defender was trying to move to that side.
The refs might have called it on someone else and incorrectly assigned it to Schultz.

Definitely agree with the false start. It was very close, but a legit call. As for Schultz, I couldn't really tell what was going on with his left hand the whole time. It's possible he grabbed some jersey for a second.

 

[Runwildboys]

Neither was a penalty. Just the refs screwing the Cowboys as usual. Been going on for decades. If you can't see a false start unless you watch it on slo-mo, then the refs have no business calling it. The holding call on Schultz was bogus.

If the refs could see it in real time, which they obviously did, then it certainly is their business to call it......Literally, their business.

 

[Runwildboys]

I was really surprised how well the officials did in this game. I didn't see any calls that jumped out as horrible calls, when we had four of those (all against Dallas) in the Packers game.

And the way this year is going in the NFL, even if these were bad calls we should still rejoice and sacrifice animals to the Gods because it was only two of them.

Don't sacrifice animals...not when there are still Kardashians around.

 

[Runwildboys]

You have to go really slow to catch that. They could have called it on Witten too. I think they're just reacting to the snap call faster than Frederick.

One thing I've noticed and wondered about. We have guys in motion and they stow their lateral movement and head upfield. Looks like a penalty to me. Jarwin is on the edge of it on this play, but there were more glaring examples, I think one in particular with Witten.

Anyone else notice that?

I've noticed several this season, and it always surprises me when they don't call it. Is there a rule about how far forward they have to go before it's a penalty?

 

[Runwildboys]

The thing I always wonder is whether the officiating is really that much worse than it was years ago (it certainly seems that way), or is some of that just perception because every call is replayed, and often shown multiple times and from multiple camera angles. In short, there is so much emphasis on the calls and so much scrutiny of the calls that we notice it more than we used to. Another factor may be that today there are so many media sources covering sports 24 hours a day that topics like this are constantly being talked about.

When I was a kid (shortly after fire was discovered) it seemed when there was a call we thought was incorrect we might get upset, and the announcer might mention the call was questionable, but the TV coverage just moved on to the next play without giving us a lot of discussion and replay to dwell on. Admittedly, that could result in a different perception than we have in today's world.

And we didn't have the "benefit" of the internet to see how many others agree that it was a bad call, then discuss it ad nauseum.

 

[Kaiser]

Don't sacrifice animals...not when there are still Kardashians around.

Six of one, half dozen of the other....

 

[buybuydandavis]

I've noticed several this season, and it always surprises me when they don't call it. Is there a rule about how far forward they have to go before it's a penalty?

I don't think so, although the NFL's guidance on officiating goes beyond what is strictly in the rule book to video explanations.

And even if they don't come forward, if they stop moving laterally across the LOS, shouldn't they be required to be set for a second?

It says to me:
You can be moving laterally or backward.
You can't be moving forward.
If you stop, i.e., are not moving laterally, you have to be set for a second.

There is *some* allowed movement forward when say a TE moves from one end of the line to the other and gets set. He gets up, moves back behind the oline, goes across, then moves forward back in line with the oline. That isn't a penalty. They're not require to crawl over the oline to go from covering one side to covering the other.

Ah. Players can move forward to get in position provided they get set for a second in that position prior to the snap.

Either they need to be in motion laterally or backward, or they need to be set for a second. I can see them giving them a pass on stopping their lateral motion and moving forward a little to "get in position", even if that's just standing somewhere in the backfield, but that should still require being set for a second.

The thing about it is, I think it stood out to both of us because it seems new. Like teams didn't used to do this, or at least didn't used to get away with it. Yet there were no rule changes associated with illegal motion.

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2019-nfl-rulebook/#article-8.-illegal-motion.

ARTICLE 8. ILLEGAL MOTION
When the ball is snapped, one player who is lined up in the backfield may be in motion, provided that he is moving parallel to or away from the line of scrimmage. No player is permitted to be moving toward the line of scrimmage when the ball is snapped. All other players must be stationary in their positions.

If an eligible receiver who is on the line moves to another position on the line (not forward), he must reset prior to the snap. If he does not reset, it is Illegal Motion.

It is also Illegal Motion if a player under or behind center goes in motion and fails to come to a complete stop for at least one full second prior to the snap.​

 

[ultron]

It's amazing how well college football is officiated, they almost always get it right and you really don't see the BS that you see in the NFL. It really doesn't make any sense.

 

[buybuydandavis]

And we didn't have the "benefit" of the internet to see how many others agree that it was a bad call, then discuss it ad nauseum.

Nor the ability to share the video and play it in super slo mo. Nor access to the NFL rule book, and the ability to cut and paste relevant sections.

If the NFL were on the ball, NFL Replay would have each play hyperlinked to stats for all players and the rulebook for any penalty called. Also a decent video player for slo mo forward and backward.

 

[nightrain]

First, I'm not complaining about the officiating in our game Sunday night. In fact, it looked to me that we should have been penalized at least for illegal contact on the flag the refs picked up.

Second, these phantom calls might not be the ones that you think they are. I didn't like the two calls that went against us on the Eagles' TD drive, but I could at least see the reason those calls were made.

The two calls I'm talking about were in the third quarter, and I'm seeing if anyone maybe saw something I didn't when I went back and rewatched what happened. Both of our players motioned that they couldn't believe the calls were on them when they were made, and I agree with them. We still overcame them to score, so they weren't that big of a deal, but these are the kind of calls that kill us in close game.

The first one was a false start on Connor Williams. I've watched it several times and I see no indication that Williams was moving before Frederick snapped the ball. Williams was totally baffled by the call.

The second was holding against Dalton Schultz. Schultz lined up on the right side on a run that went left. He got out on the second level and engaged a defensive back, ultimately pushing him to the ground. I couldn't see any kind of pull or grab, and assume the call was made because the DB went to the ground. Schultz clearly shoved him, though, instead of grabbing him and throwing him. Schultz was pointing up at the big screen as he left the field to show that he did nothing wrong.

Did anyone notice something that I missed?

I have noticed the officiating overall has been terrible, particularly since they returned from the brief strike a few years ago. Every team has felt the wrath and I can only hope they make some serious improvements because the games are becoming unwatchable.

 

[buybuydandavis]

I have noticed the officiating overall has been terrible, particularly since they returned from the brief strike a few years ago. Every team has felt the wrath and I can only hope they make some serious improvements because the games are becoming unwatchable.

A combination of bad calls and inherently crappy rules. It's my biggest turnoff with the league.

I wonder if it's calculated. Maybe they do it *because* we hate it, rather than *despite* us hating it. Maybe negative emotional engagement keeps the eyeballs glued just as well as positive emotional engagement. Maybe better. Rage watching.

 

[buybuydandavis]

It's amazing how well college football is officiated, they almost always get it right and you really don't see the BS that you see in the NFL. It really doesn't make any sense.

Try on my new theory.

Much like twitter, the nfl has discovered that rage is a great way to keep the eyeballs glued. We say we're disgusted by it, but we keep coming back for more.

Much like twitter. Everyone on it is busy complaining what a horrific cesspool it is.

Rage is re-enforcing. We are addicted pigeons pecking the button for rage pellets.

 

[Seven]

REFS leave a lot to be desired in 2019. Betcha the Packers LOVE THEM

They have for years. Wahgers is a kitty and built an embarrassing career as a QB imposter.

He crys like a girl when hit and wings it in hopes of a flag. That's all he's got with an OL that gets away with murder.

Hell.....we could all be a QB in Green Bay.

Name another team that has gone an entire game without one holding call.

 

[ConstantReboot]

First, I'm not complaining about the officiating in our game Sunday night. In fact, it looked to me that we should have been penalized at least for illegal contact on the flag the refs picked up.

Second, these phantom calls might not be the ones that you think they are. I didn't like the two calls that went against us on the Eagles' TD drive, but I could at least see the reason those calls were made.

The two calls I'm talking about were in the third quarter, and I'm seeing if anyone maybe saw something I didn't when I went back and rewatched what happened. Both of our players motioned that they couldn't believe the calls were on them when they were made, and I agree with them. We still overcame them to score, so they weren't that big of a deal, but these are the kind of calls that kill us in close game.

The first one was a false start on Connor Williams. I've watched it several times and I see no indication that Williams was moving before Frederick snapped the ball. Williams was totally baffled by the call.

The second was holding against Dalton Schultz. Schultz lined up on the right side on a run that went left. He got out on the second level and engaged a defensive back, ultimately pushing him to the ground. I couldn't see any kind of pull or grab, and assume the call was made because the DB went to the ground. Schultz clearly shoved him, though, instead of grabbing him and throwing him. Schultz was pointing up at the big screen as he left the field to show that he did nothing wrong.

Did anyone notice something that I missed?

These phantom calls have been happening throughout the season. It seems when we run off some big play a flag flies out. Then they just pick and choice any number to manufacture a call.

I've watched these many times over and over and still can't understand why they were called. Whats worst is the commentators seem to gloss over it as if its the players fault.

 

[gimmesix]

You make an excellent point regarding QB's in this post Gimme!

No, I don't think the refs are out to get the Cowboys. Refs are human, tough to see some things live etc. But, one phantom call that had me shaking my head was the Lions vs. Packers game. the ref was right there, and called a hands to the face when it wasn't even close. The refs handed the Packers that game.

I agree, Dak should turn to the refs immediately if there is a bad/late hit on him with no flag.

That is a very good point. Dak does just get up and keep playing after blatant hits on him. And Romo did the same.

And I blame that on coaching. If you see that quarterbacks like Brady and Rodgers complain and get flags thrown, why would you not teach your quarterback to turn to the officials after every hit looking for a flag. It's like the Packers using the hug technique or the Patriots using rub routes or even Denver using chop blocks. There are a lot of things that officials do that hurt your team, so take advantage of the things you can do to help until the league says you can't do them anymore.

The days of telling your quarterback to show how tough he is are gone. He's the most protected player on the field, so use that to your advantage.

 

[gimmesix]

The thing I always wonder is whether the officiating is really that much worse than it was years ago (it certainly seems that way), or is some of that just perception because every call is replayed, and often shown multiple times and from multiple camera angles. In short, there is so much emphasis on the calls and so much scrutiny of the calls that we notice it more than we used to. Another factor may be that today there are so many media sources covering sports 24 hours a day that topics like this are constantly being talked about.

When I was a kid (shortly after fire was discovered) it seemed when there was a call we thought was incorrect we might get upset, and the announcer might mention the call was questionable, but the TV coverage just moved on to the next play without giving us a lot of discussion and replay to dwell on. Admittedly, that could result in a different perception than we have in today's world.

This is why I think the NFL needs to do everything within reason to get calls right. It's harder to get away with a bad one because of the technology we have today. So they need to be making better use of that technology in officiating games. Replay was a step in that direction, but replay only helps (or hinders) with a few plays that they decide to check or challenge. I think they should have a team of officials that checks every penalty that is called. If they can clearly see that it was a bad call, then stop the penalty. With the way technology is today, they could complete that task with a very minimal delay.

If you had a crew that was checking out that offensive PI call against us in the Jets game, I have no doubt we would have been awarded the TD that we should have been given.

I'm less certain about having the booth call penalties if they see one that the officials didn't see, because that could lead to a lot more penalties being called. However, I don't know if I'd be against blatant/game-affecting penalties being called by the booth, such as the hold on Irving by Green Bay in the playoff game or the pass interference in the Saints-Rams game.