Unpopular opinion: I don't think Zeke is having a bad year

CalPolyTechnique · Dec 11, 2019

superonyx said:
Tyron Smith $15.5M
Martin $14M
Frederick $11m
Zeke $6.3m

Where is the threads on one of these guys?

The difference in our running game this season is mostly on the regression of this group.
But that doesnt play into the anti Zeke crowds agendas. This or some people really don't get it.

I know this doesn’t register in your fanboi brain, but Zeke is averaging 4.4 YPC despite the supposed offensive line regression.

The reality is they are opening lanes for him at the LOS.

Zeke just isn’t making guys miss at the second level.

792 carries now dating back to 2017 and the league’s highest paid running back’s longest run is just 41 yards.

Go look at this year’s Top 10 rushers and look at the number of 40+ yard runs they have individually for THIS YEAR alone.

Scram; you’re useless.

JayFord · Dec 11, 2019

Who would think Elliott is having a bad year?

guy is on pace for 1200 yards and 12tds

JoeKing · Dec 11, 2019

D4KADON said:
I honestly think

1. Dak is improving as a pocket passer, and he's throwing more passes

2. This is Moore's first year as the OC

3. Dak's contract

In fact, part of this team's problem is that it abandons the run even when it IS working(Bills, Patriots game)

I don't disagree with you. The only reason this would be an unpopular opinion is that this forum is filled with unintelligent, misinformed swine.

starfan1 · Dec 11, 2019

Tussinman said:
Yes and No. Everyone's crying about the offensive lines demise do to the record stat (6-8) but reality is there at worst a fringe top 5 unit. Pressures and sacks are down from last year and offensively the cowboys as a unit aren't noticeable worst than the previous 2 seasons.

If the cowboys where 9-4 right now (easily attainable with better coaching/schemes on the same roster) literally nobody would be complaining about offense

Perhaps but they aren’t . You’re right the line is far from our worst problem but like others they are not free from blame some of it anyhow

aria · Dec 11, 2019

JayFord said:
Who would think Elliott is having a bad year?

guy is on pace for 1200 yards and 12tds

TD’s are over rated. They could have put Pollard in there for 90% of those TD’s and he would have got them. On the other hand, Zeke has had some chances to get around the edge or make a defender miss for a TD and was too slow where as Pollard would have most likely got it.

The difference in a RB getting 5 TD’s vs 15 could be as simple as the play calling which is why I don’t put too much value in who gets the TD as long as we get it. It may also have to do with personnel.

For example,

2005: Brandon Jacobs played 16 games for a whopping total of 99 yards but had 7 TD’s
2006: Tiki Barber played 16 games for a whopping 1662 yards and had 5 TD’s
2006: Brandon Jacobs played 15 games for 423 yards and had 9 TD’s

Does that mean Jacobs is a better back than Tiki because he had more TD’s? Of course not. Although that’s what some jere would have you believe.

superonyx · Dec 11, 2019

CalPolyTechnique said:
I know this doesn’t register in your fanboi brain, but Zeke is averaging 4.4 YPC despite the supposed offensive line regression.

The reality is they are opening lanes for him at the LOS.

Zeke just isn’t making guys miss at the second level.

792 carries now dating back to 2017 and the league’s highest paid running back’s longest run is just 41 yards.

Go look at this year’s Top 10 rushers and look at the number of 40+ yard runs they have individually for THIS YEAR alone.

Scram; you’re useless.

Honestly I'm bored of having the same conversation over and over.
As Ive said above no one here is looking to be moved. Just a bunch of people wanting to convince themselves how right they are.
The same back and forth over and over.
Just make sure you don't hide when Zeke is getting fitted for his HOF jacket.

xwalker · Dec 11, 2019

OmerV said:
That doesn't make sense. There isn't something magical about faking a handoff that makes a QB more capable of throwing a football.

The reality is we simply don't have Dak under center very often unless it is a down where there is a good chance we run, so in that case, if we decide to pass, why wouldn't we go play action? That's when it is most effective - when the opponent is looking for a run.

CalPolyTechnique · Dec 11, 2019

superonyx said:
Honestly I'm bored of having the same conversation over and over.
As Ive said above no one here is looking to be moved. Just a bunch of people wanting to convince themselves how right they are.
The same back and forth over and over.
Just make sure you don't hide when Zeke is getting fitted for his HOF jacket.

Right, when you can’t respond you’re “bored.”

Yet, you’re on the various Zeke threads trying to defend his honor.

Very convincing.

xwalker · Dec 11, 2019

D4KADON said:
I honestly think

1. Dak is improving as a pocket passer, and he's throwing more passes

2. This is Moore's first year as the OC

3. Dak's contract

In fact, part of this team's problem is that it abandons the run even when it IS working(Bills, Patriots game)

It is really difficult to separate the RBs performance from the offenses performance.

Zeke has not been terrible but he was better last season.

The blocking scheme has not been good but defenses don't seem concerned with Zeke gashing them outside and therefore focus on inside runs.

There is a visible difference in how defenses put more focus on outside run defense when Pollard is in the game.

It reminds me of DeMarco Murray. He lost some speed/quickness but was still effective.

Murray lost speed/quickness because he started over-hydrating in the day or two leading up to games. He carried excessive water weight to start games. It did help him reduce injuries to some extent.

gjkoeppen · Dec 11, 2019

superonyx said:
The five subpar games of 60 or less are on the OL. The reality most of you don't want to accept is any game where a RB gains 2 or 3 ypc is a failing on the OL.

Look up Dalvin Cooks or McCaffery stats this year. Look at the games where they went 20 carries for 40 yards. Thats on the offense line, play calling and scheme not on the RB.

Any RB at the college level on up who ends up with less than 3 ypc is a back who's OL had their arses handed to them.
This is like blaming a QB for his QB rating in a game where he was sacked 8 times. It all starts with the OL. If they are sucking then the skill players dont have a chance.

I would buy that if it was a constant thing but his rushing is down this season and some of that may be because of the line but I've seen him this season just run straight into a pile and get 1 or 2 yards when in past years he would make a cut just before the line and find an opening instead of just running into a mass of linemen. That's on Elliott thinking he's going to break a bunch of tackles in that mass and end up just getting a yard or two.
.

superonyx · Dec 11, 2019

CalPolyTechnique said:
Right, when you can’t respond you’re “bored.”

Yet, you’re on the various Zeke threads trying to defend his honor.

Very convincing.

I'm not trying to convince you. I was actually being nice and letting you know why I saw it pointless to respond.
You really didnt make any compelling points. I started to respond but found myself not interested. I could have simply said nothing.

You post started in your typical insulting style. Then it went down a path where I realized it would take 10 back and forth posts just to arrive at the same point we started.

Maybe if I get bored at work i'll play along with the people like you.
As for tonight I find it rather boring and pointless.
There is no winning in this type of thing the way you think you win. The reality is winning is only achieved by spending as little time as possible going down a hole with some dude on the internet I will never meet in real life.

I've seen your post chasing me all over this forum. I've given you the yawn picture before. Unfortunately your act bores me my friend.

superonyx · Dec 11, 2019

gjkoeppen said:
I would buy that if it was a constant thing but his rushing is down this season and some of that may be because of the line but I've seen him this season just run straight into a pile and get 1 or 2 yards when in past years he would make a cut just before the line and find an opening instead of just running into a mass of linemen. That's on Elliott thinking he's going to break a bunch of tackles in that mass and end up just getting a yard or two.
.

Possibly. Or he is frustrated and after running head first into a brick wall so many times you start to accept your fate. Its like a QB who gets hit in the pocket enough times they start to feel pressure and rush the ball out even when the pressure isnt there. I know we are just speculating and are all just offering opinions here. I would be interested in seeing what percentage of his carries this year resulted in him getting met by defenders behind the line. It feels like its way too many.

CalPolyTechnique · Dec 11, 2019

superonyx said:
I'm not trying to convince you. I was actually being nice and letting you know why I saw it pointless to respond.
You really didnt make any compelling points. I started to respond but found myself not interested. I could have simply said nothing.

You post started in your typical insulting style. Then it went down a path where I realized it would take 10 back and forth posts just to arrive at the same point we started.

Maybe if I get bored at work i'll play along with the people like you.
As for tonight I find it rather boring and pointless.
There is no winning in this type of thing the way you think you win. The reality is winning is only achieved by spending as little time as possible going down a hole with some dude on the internet I will never meet in real life.

I've seen your post chasing me all over this forum. I've given you the yawn picture before. Unfortunately your act bores me my friend.

Right, and through all that blathering and posturing you almost sound like you actually convinced yourself that you have an answer other than “fafafafaaaans are just too emotional.....Zeke keeps ramming his head into a brick wall!!”

Jake · Dec 12, 2019

I haven't seen a "Kamara is better than Zeke" thread lately. I wonder why?

blueblood70 · Dec 12, 2019

superonyx said:
You are assuming some of these guys on this board are open to being enlightened. They are not. They have been presented all the facts many times.
Nothing you could do, say, show them would change a thing for them.

Instead of wanting to be enlightened they want to be right.
So they keep posting the same anti zeke nonsense day after day. Its the same group. Its not hard to identify them.

They have been trying to discredit Zeke since we selected him over Ramsey. They convinced themselves Zeke would never see another contract for the Cowboys.
When he became the highest paid RB it made their blood boil. How could they have been so wrong for so long? So they do what they are doing on this thread and many more like it.

well i figure if I keep posting the stats of the ALL TIME HOF Dallas Cowboy cant do no wrong Emmitt Smith who zeke does Comp to very well who BTW was always the Highest Paid RB in the NFL who Held out before he ever signed his first deal with the cowboys then after year 3 and then got a legacy contract 3 years before he was let go here by non other then Jerry..taking Breath LOL

look at those Year end YPC averages but what we say was a generational top 5 RB in NFL history..if this was blind stat line and people had to guess who that was ES wouldn't be in the top 10 guesses..

Fact-Like Zeke, Emmitt was simply a work horse back , volume yard gainer that could be available 16 games and take the ball as much as you wanted him too.. he was not flashy cut back chunk yard burst guy.. Emmitt also was coached by a HOF staff, had HOF players all around him, and in a time where RBs were king..

Id say Zeke stacks up very well to our best.. Zeke doesnt have to be the #1 back every year, those 2 guys ahead of him like CM and Chubb they wont be #1 every year they are simply having career years like back in the day Barry and Thurman and Emmitt shared the top..

The only thing that differs from EE to ES is Emmitt truly set out to make sure he played until he got the record, thats a lot of drive and determination not much different then Frank Gore and AP..they are trying hard to climb toward the all time top.. I doubt Zeke thinks much about where hes at 10years into his career.. thats not knock on him, look at all the very average to below avg years stat wise it took to keep them chipping away at yards..Zeke doesnt strike me as h=guy who cares much for where he fits in in NFL history, but he does care about winning and being the best right now..

Zeke simply has to stay relative and being top 5 this year when we went pass happy half the games, been behind so many other games where Zeke started out on fire, and the line not being always good in the run blocking, id say hes doing pretty well..

No player can always be at the very top year in and year out but 4 years EE has now been in the top 5 this being his worst season, thats not something he should be getting this much criticism..im not saying he doesnt have bad games or has been perfect but no way he should be even top 10 when listing 2019s issues..

its simply a reminder..

blueblood70 · Dec 12, 2019

Sydla said:
It's laughable to just say that age or wear and tear aren't at play here, to any extent. Anyone who is honest with themselves would admit that Elliott doesn't look the same as he did his rookie year. He was quicker, more explosive then.

its laughable you cant see thats thats normal for most heavily used players, ie look at the Numbers Emmitt smith had ONE year over 5YOC just one had 3 years over 4.5 the rest were ALL well below where Zeke is this season..

DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT EMMITT ALSO after his 5.3 avg year went down every year after..he still was relative and he still ended up in the HOF..No one critiqued ES back then because we didnt have the Internet and stats available nor did we have so many forums and fantasy football watching fans that all they do is compare stats and critique players from their fat a$$es..

oh man how ES would have been ripped apart in this era from his holdouts , being the highhest paid RB his entire career, and dwindling YPC being dwindling yearly after year 4.. it didnt happen..

so someone of us need to remind those on zekes butt this year that it isnt as bad as it seems..

gimmesix · Dec 12, 2019

Aviano90 said:
You are going through a lot to come up with excuses for Elliott’s worst year. If all you say is true, why has he improved in 2018 and 2019 despite worse offensive line play when defenses have had even more tape to be even less surprised by his cuts and speed?

It’s really simple, he didn’t play particularly well in 2017. It was noticeable very early on he was slower than in 2016 and had put on weight. He wasn’t as explosive. It got better in 2018 but still not at that elite 2016 level.

And while you and I will continue to disagree, the majority of other people are realizing he isn’t the same back he was in 2016 and it’s not just everyone else’s fault but Zeke’s.

Nowhere have I said Zeke is playing as well as he did in 2016 or that his lower production is everyone else's fault.

I've simply said that 4.1 YPC and 7 TDs in 10 games is not bad, and that just because Randle had 4.1 YPC in six starts does not mean you can compare the two backs. 2017 was Elliott's worst year, that does not make it a bad year for a running back.

There are multiple reasons why Elliott went from 5.1 YPC to 4.1 YPC. I agree that he changed his body type and became more of a power back, losing some speed and explosiveness. He was already somewhat on the power side, but he's leaned more that direction over the past few years in some ways to his detriment.

It isn't all that uncommon for players to change up their bodies as their careers progress. (There are some natural changes that happen as you mature, of course.) It's up to his coaches and trainers to let the player know when he's taken it too far and to set goals for him to get him to be the player they want him to be. I don't think Elliott is in the right physical shape to maximize his ability.

The premise of this thread, though, is whether he's having a bad year, and I don't think we can say that based on the numbers. I don't think he's had a bad year yet.

Hennessy_King · Dec 12, 2019

He's not having a bad year. He's having a decent year but he hasn't had the same amount of carries and not many explosive runs as years past. Hopefully he comes to work out in training camp and has a great next season

Aviano90 · Dec 12, 2019

gimmesix said:
Nowhere have I said Zeke is playing as well as he did in 2016 or that his lower production is everyone else's fault.

I've simply said that 4.1 YPC and 7 TDs in 10 games is not bad, and that just because Randle had 4.1 YPC in six starts does not mean you can compare the two backs. 2017 was Elliott's worst year, that does not make it a bad year for a running back.

There are multiple reasons why Elliott went from 5.1 YPC to 4.1 YPC. I agree that he changed his body type and became more of a power back, losing some speed and explosiveness. He was already somewhat on the power side, but he's leaned more that direction over the past few years in some ways to his detriment.

It isn't all that uncommon for players to change up their bodies as their careers progress. (There are some natural changes that happen as you mature, of course.) It's up to his coaches and trainers to let the player know when he's taken it too far and to set goals for him to get him to be the player they want him to be. I don't think Elliott is in the right physical shape to maximize his ability.

The premise of this thread, though, is whether he's having a bad year, and I don't think we can say that based on the numbers. I don't think he's had a bad year yet.

I am not trying to compare Randle and Zeke.
There really is no comparison. What I am comparing is the reaction to 4.1. It is thought Randle sucked and he did. We started using DMC and he had 1k yards and that wasn’t even good enough. Despite our horrible QB play and despite not having a #1 receiver for the majority of the year, and not fully recovered when we did have him, we had a top 10 rushing attack that year.

The RBs were so lowly thought of that we spent a premium pick on a RB in 2016, despite our running game being the strength of the team in 2015, even with Randle and DMC as the backs. Randle specifically has been made fun of since then and very few (well really nobody) has even attempted to defend the situation he was running behind with absolutely no threat of the passing game.

Zeke on the other hand gets all kinds of excuses instead of being measured on the same level. If 4.1 was bad for Randle, then it should be horrible for Zeke. And if 4.1 wasn’t bad for Randle, then not sure why we needed an upgrade at the position with a premium pick when we needed defensive help, especially since Randle was replaced with DMC as starter and DMC played very well. As it turned out, DMC got injured after Zeke was drafted, but the Cowboys didn’t know that yet.

CalPolyTechnique · Dec 12, 2019

blueblood70 said:
its laughable you cant see thats thats normal for most heavily used players, ie look at the Numbers Emmitt smith had ONE year over 5YOC just one had 3 years over 4.5 the rest were ALL well below where Zeke is this season..

DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT EMMITT ALSO after his 5.3 avg year went down every year after..he still was relative and he still ended up in the HOF..No one critiqued ES back then because we didnt have the Internet and stats available nor did we have so many forums and fantasy football watching fans that all they do is compare stats and critique players from their fat a$$es..

oh man how ES would have been ripped apart in this era from his holdouts , being the highhest paid RB his entire career, and dwindling YPC being dwindling yearly after year 4.. it didnt happen..

so someone of us need to remind those on zekes butt this year that it isnt as bad as it seems..

It’s laughable to think that if you’re a RB that can average ~4.8-5.0+ YPC that you automatically must be some injury prone, flashy, unreliable RB that can’t be trusted to tote the ball with regularity.

Unpopular opinion: I don't think Zeke is having a bad year

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