Bill Belichick: “Good players can’t overcome bad coaching”

I'm surprised he doesn't just blame execution. That works well for this team.

snadler said:

Man how true a statement from him on the HBO documentary, and how spot on that is for this team and JG..both he and Saban spoke at length about this fact, and all I could think about is how many times that could be said about the Boys

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Most coaches...including Belichick and Saban…. will tell you

1. Great Players, Great Coaching
2. Great Players, Good Coaching
3. Good Players, Great Coaching
4. Good Players, Good Coaching
5. etc

They are not saying great coaching is why you win. They are saying that great or good coaching is better than poor coaching--all else equal.
They are stating the obvious

A team with great players and bad coaching won't beat a team with great players and good coaching
Imagine that

A team with lessor coaching but better players will still often beat a team with poor players and better coaching.

If we think Dallas is an example of bad coaching and good (not great) players and Miami is an example of a team with bad players and good coaching....well, Miami might be overachieving but they still are not as a good as Dallas over a 16 game schedule.

I was reading some things about a completely different topic and sport. One guy made the observation: If one opponent knows what the other opponent is going to do, that guy is going to win 80% of the time.

That's why Bellichick is so big on filming teams practice. Its an incredible advantage.

People like Garret will bring up execution and they are right. If you complete every pass, pancake every block, beat every blocker on defense, etc. you will win and no scheme will stop that. However, with two relatively equal opponents, knowing where to go gives you a huge advantage in winning those 1 on 1 confrontations. Defenders jump routes, they jump into holes, etc. WR's know where the soft spots in zones will be. It makes it really hard to execute when opponents always hit you where you are weakest and know where you are going.

Getting back to Dallas, the 90's Cowboys were one of those 20% that were so good they could win when you knew what they were going to do. Even with that, they ran most of their plays out of the I and did all kinds of zone blitzes. Teams might have known all their plays but they gave away *nothing* pre snap.

I think Jerry wildly underestimates tactics and coaching because of how dominant the early 90's Cowboys were.

snadler said:

Man how true a statement from him on the HBO documentary, and how spot on that is for this team and JG..both he and Saban spoke at length about this fact, and all I could think about is how many times that could be said about the Boys

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Great teams cant overcome cheating opponents.

CowboysFaninHouston said:

good coaching can't overcome bad GM....sort of.....

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bad coaching can compound bad gming though.

Bigtex67 said:

Normally I would be agreeing with you, but for what it is worth...I really thought we had a good roster this year. Really hoping it has been coaching and that the next coaching staff can set the ship on course......

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I liked our roster too. as fans, we tend to over rate our talent and dismiss their short comings. yes, coaching has held us back this year. my argument has always been that most NFL games go into the 4th quarter within a score, so situational coaching, throughout the game will be the difference and we haven't over come those. Saints, Patriots, Bills, Minnesota games are great examples of situational bad calls costing us games...to some extent, Chicago game as well. I expected this team to be 9-4 at this point, perhaps even 10-3. now I hope we end up 6-10

snadler said:

maybe, but also it can be coached properly even at the pro level, watch the documentary. Amazing how when pats lose, first think both do after a loss is the coach blames himself. Ever hear JG take blame for a loss?

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No, I haven't but coaching techniques on the fundamentals of football do not differ from team to team.

I've seen games lost by both coaches and players and there is something to players playing better for certain coaches.

Saban example: Jalen Hurts, he plays better for Riley.

Belichick example: Jamie Collins, he trades him to CLE because he knows he will break his LB budget and CLE doesn't like him, he gets Collins back and he plays well for Belichick.

If you've ever heard Belichick's players describe the day before a game, you know why he trusts them to make the adjustments he calls for.

One thing I like about both of these coaches is the attention to detail and there are no small details and their players understand that.

TwentyOne said:

Great teams cant overcome cheating opponents.

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Are you calling the teams that they cheated on, the Jets and Bengals great teams? And if I was a team that lost a playoff game by 38 points, I'd be reluctant to call out deflated balls.

Jimmy Johnson has said for years that Jerry doesn't value coaching.

CPanther95 said:

There's at least 6 or you would be undefeated.

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Not when your coaching puts your talent at a disadvantage every week

CouchCoach said:

Are you calling the teams that they cheated on, the Jets and Bengals great teams? And if I was a team that lost a playoff game by 38 points, I'd be reluctant to call out deflated balls.

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I dont call those teams great. What i wrote is that even if you are a great team you wont beat the patriots because they cheat.

The patriots cheated before. Again and again. There were essentially no consequences for them and they never were forced to prove that what they achieved was/is legit.

For me what the patriots do is only because they cheat unless they prove else.

Future said:

Not when your coaching puts your talent at a disadvantage every week

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Well, for whatever reason the talent is "disadvantaged" and it's not showing up on the field, they're less talented.

If it's all coaching, then change the coaching and see if the team becomes more talented. If it's fundamentals, improve them and become more talented. But as long as teams are beating them, those teams are more talented.

You seem to be suggesting that they're one of the most talented teams in the NFL - IF they were better. That's true of all teams.

CPanther95 said:

Well, for whatever reason the talent is "disadvantaged" and it's not showing up on the field, they're less talented.

If it's all coaching, then change the coaching and see if the team becomes more talented. If it's fundamentals, improve them and become more talented. But as long as teams are beating them, those teams are more talented.

You seem to be suggesting that they're one of the most talented teams in the NFL - IF they were better. That's true of all teams.

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The idea that the more talented team always wins is dumb.

You're going to sit here and tell me the Jets are more talented?

CowboysFaninHouston said:

good coaching can't overcome bad GM....sort of.....

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Hire a real coach. That's how you become a good GM. Stop hiring losers to run your organization on the field.

Jerry has done it before, and here is one fan that thinks that is again what he is going to do this time around. But we will see.

Boom...all in ya face Jerry from the GOAT!!!

Future said:

The idea that the more talented team always wins is dumb.

You're going to sit here and tell me the Jets are more talented?

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Are we talking about about a team's talent in playing football games, or line dancing?

If you're talking about football talent, then it's determined on the football field, not some nerd's spreadsheet.

Teams can have an off day against a typically crappy team - so yeah, I'd rather play the Jets than the Cowboys. But their talent level this year would be very close to their #8 in the NFC current standing.

CouchCoach said:

I agree with that to a point as far as play calling but the fundamentals of blocking and tackling and ball protection, that's on the players.

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Isn't that a result of bad coaching?

Froski said:

Isn't that a result of bad coaching?

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If it isn't emphasized, I'd say yes.

TwentyOne said:

Great teams cant overcome cheating opponents.

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We would be so lucky to have a coach that will do anything and everything to win. The guy is so competitive that he is willing to skirt the fringes of the rules and even break them to beat the other guy.

As opposed to Garrett, which is the equivalent to "Munson" in football terms.

Garrett struggles to make a game plan or an adjustment.

All the idiot does is ask them to execute and when they don't he just sits there with a stupid look on his face and has no answers. Garrett doesn't belong anywhere near a football team.

CPanther95 said:

Are we talking about about a team's talent in playing football games, or line dancing?

If you're talking about football talent, then it's determined on the football field, not some nerd's spreadsheet.

Teams can have an off day against a typically crappy team - so yeah, I'd rather play the Jets than the Cowboys. But their talent level this year would be very close to their #8 in the NFC current standing.

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If you think the more talented team wins every game, then you think the Jets are more talented than the Cowboys.

It's ridiculous to think that there are 7 teams with more talent in the NFC. There is a distinction between talent and performance that you don't want to make.