11 Ways to Improve Soccer

[Hostile]

ClayNation: 11 ways to improve soccer

July 3, 2006
By Clay Travis
SPiN Columnist

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[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]I don’t hate soccer and I don’t hate the World Cup. I also don’t hate people who don’t live in America. These are accusations some people make when someone says anything the least bit critical of soccer. I played soccer during high school and at one point, I even managed to score a goal as a fullback. It was from mid-field and it ranks as my all-time greatest sports achievement. So far, I've watched and enjoyed lots of World Cup games and I understand the complexities, nuances and subtleties of the game -- even if my own ability to master said complexities, nuances and subtleties was and is virtually nonexistent. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]But I don’t enjoy the World Cup as much as I should because during the entire month, plenty of soccer fans have been telling me how much I should be loving the tournament or how much more they like the World Cup than I. [/FONT]
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Seriously, what other sport has fans that constantly evangelize it to others so completely? It’s not enough for soccer fans to appreciate the sport themselves; they have to constantly deride others who don’t like the sport as much as they do. In an interesting irony, the sport an entire world embraces has been adopted by smug elitists in the U.S. A soccer ball may float on water, but you get the feeling many American soccer fans believe they can walk on water, too. [/FONT]
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In my opinion, it’s as if soccer is a great religion and everyone who doesn’t embrace it is doomed for all eternity. The only thing that brings Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindis and atheists together is the conviction that people who do not like soccer are heathens. One imagines that even Osama bin Laden is getting a live feed of soccer games at his mountain hideout somewhere in the recesses of the world. [/FONT]
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Imagine if you had to hear from beer-gutted savants every Sunday during the NFL season what an idiot you were for not caring about American football -- wouldn't that make it less likely for you to enjoy the game? And yet this World Cup cycle repeats itself every four years for your entire life. The bombardment of derision from soccer enthusiasts never ceases. I halfway expect a Brazilian samba line to continue the attempted persuasion even after I am six feet underground and presumably off to the hereafter ( with a casket from Eternal Image, Inc. to mark my burial, no less). [/FONT]
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Here are a list of sports I regularly watch and enjoy every year no matter whether anyone tells me to watch them or not: Basketball (college and pro), golf, football (college and pro), tennis, baseball, ping pong, poker and paintball. Ask my wife if I need to watch any more sports and she’s likely to throw knives at you. Yet somehow, people who like soccer always manage to make me feel guilty about not being in the throes of ecstasy over the tournament’s arrival. In fact, to bring out the ClayNation Guarantee, I’m convinced that no more than 1 percent of Americans could even place Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Serbia and Montenegro and the Ivory Coast on the correct continent. But when World Cup season arrives, we are all Tunisians ... even if we don’t know where Tunisia is. [/FONT]
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My friend Paul recently asked me why we feel compelled to trot out the same banal litany every four years: "Why don’t Americans pay more attention to soccer?" "If only Americans liked soccer more, they’d ..." "It’s the world’s game and we should ..." "We’re so arrogant about our own sports ..." and trot out the even more cliched responses that never seem to really capture the simple fact that Americans already expend more time, money and interest on sports than any society in the history of the world. So we’ve finally found a sport (other than hockey) that we don’t absolutely love.

Isn’t that even a little bit healthy? Have you ever heard anyone else argue that Americans should care about sports more than we already do? And yet the questions still come every four years with the same rigorous precision as our presidential campaigns. [/FONT]
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Nevertheless, in the interest of silencing everyone who has World Cup fever, here are 11 changes to soccer that would have me delirious with glee. If these things happen, my first born child will teethe on a soccer ball and only have a first name (Houdini is the early favorite). I'll also go loco with foreign football fanaticism. At some point, I may even purchase a bongo drum.
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Soccer players who fake injuries have to fight Russian heavyweight goliath Nikolay Valuev. (Getty Images)

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1. If you fake an injury and return moments later, after the game, you have to fight a professional boxer without a mouthpiece ... and there is no penalty for blows below the belt. Plus, your mother will be placed in a cage in your opponent’s town square and everyone can throw rotten fruit at her for an hour. I feel like this would change things. [/FONT]
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2. Give me cheerleaders on the sidelines dressed appropriately for the country they represent. This would mean Saudi Arabian women would dress in burkas -- look how they blink their eyes and drive the men mad. On the opposite side of the cheerleader spectrum, Brazilian women would wear bikinis replete with thongs. [/FONT]
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3. Expand the goal. I appreciate the delicate dance of a scoreless game, but as the games advance in the World Cup, the teams are just too good and the goalies are too skilled. Add two feet on either side. [/FONT]
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4. At half-time, have retired goalies bomb goal ticks to be trapped by average fans within two yards of their body. This is almost impossible to accomplish for average fans and the games themselves make it seem easy. Bonus points to the retired goalies for people they knock out. [/FONT]
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5. Eliminate offsides. Admittedly, I’ve been bitter about offsides ever since Martin Luther King High School's entire defensive strategy consisted of executing the offsides trap with rigorous precision -- only the referees never called it. I always seemed to be in the midst of a mad dash to catch up with the man I should have been marking as he streaked toward the goal. Offsides puts an incredible onus on the referee not to make a mistake with his call and detracts from the players on the field. [/FONT]
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6. Let women watch the games in Iran. It’s great the world can come together to celebrate a sport, but the world and FIFA have a larger obligation than to host a carnival of games. What if each World Cup qualifying game had to give all citizens regardless of race, creed, religion or where the game was played an opportunity to watch? There’s just no way the Iranian men’s team should be able to host a game that half of their people are forbidden to attend. If FIFA is made up of too many wusses to do this, do the exact opposite -- announce that Iran may host the 2018 World Cup so long as all men and women are able to attend games. Watch how quickly this rule crumbles from the inside. [/FONT]
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7. Don’t pretend that I should be excited about watching Angola and Tobago play. There are 111 games in the World Cup. You don’t hear American announcers overselling Cleveland vs. Houston in week 14 of the NFL as a must-see game. Give the average fan some credit. [/FONT]
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8. Have a Brazilian Woman Cam no matter who is playing. This is self-explanatory. Actually, I think Brazilian women announcers would probably be more enjoyable than the clowns who have been calling most of the games in the U.S. How bad is it? John Harkes sounds just like tennis announcer Mary Carillo ... only he’s a man. Personally, I’d rather see Brazilian women talking in Portuguese than keep thinking Mary Carillo has somehow found her way into the World Cup announcing booth. [/FONT]
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9. Eliminate penalty kicks. Deciding a winner with penalty kicks is the rough American football equivalent of lining up a running back and putting him man-to-man against a linebacker at the five-yard line to decide overtime. Come on, soccer is enjoyable because it requires the precision and skill of several men on the field moving together toward a common purpose. As is, penalty kicks are like FIFA’s version of a Madden NFL practice session -- only it decides the game. [/FONT]
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10. Assess yellow cards for missed goal reactions. Okay we get it, you missed the goal. Actually, you nailed your kick about 30 yards above the goal and killed a middle-aged Angolan man in the 15th row who saved money his entire life to attend the games. Well done. We don’t need to see you dramatize how close you were to a free night’s run at the Hamburg brothels. Just keep playing. [/FONT]
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11. Heads of state decide tie games after expanded 180 minutes of play. It’s a global game and a global struggle; why can't global leaders decide the outcome? Who wouldn’t love to see George W. Bush and Dick Cheney line up to take on Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran? Would the Ayatollah trip on his robes? Would Dick Cheney have a heart attack? The storylines are epic. [/FONT]

 

[Hostile]

I totally agree with #7.

 

[peplaw06]

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Seriously, what other sport has fans that constantly evangelize it to others so completely? It’s not enough for soccer fans to appreciate the sport themselves; they have to constantly deride others who don’t like the sport as much as they do. In an interesting irony, the sport an entire world embraces has been adopted by smug elitists in the U.S. A soccer ball may float on water, but you get the feeling many American soccer fans believe they can walk on water, too. [/FONT]

Took the words right out of my mouth. I've watched a little too Hos, and I agree with #7 also. It's like you're an ignorant, uncultured, imperialist if you don't watch soccer, and that's preposterous. What makes that sport more important than the sports I like to watch?

It's so predictable what's going to happen in the US, because it's happened the past few world cups since we hosted in 1994. The nation gets energized for one month, for one tournament. Then for four years no one talks about it. Wonder why we don't get "talked down" to when we don't watch the MLS or the overseas leagues??

 

[Hostile]

Pretty scathing article. I keep reading it. I don't know why other than the author says so many things that I wish I had said in the soccer debates here. I like #7, but #1 would be funny.

 

[TEK2000]

I've enjoyed watching certain games of the World Cup... but the 1 thing that beats me down more than anything is the FLOPS.

My God man... I thought NBA players had the FLOP down to a science... these soccer players take it a whole other level and its absolutely ridiculous.

Ronaldinho is 1 player that I've seen actually run thru other people's legs. In a game that requires the greatest amount of foot/leg coordination of any sport, these guys all the sudden become more uncoordinated than Shawn Bradley if someone touches their leg while they're running.

My MIDDLE SCHOOL football coach said we better not go down on the field with a cramp or he'd come out there and drag us off... and these guys flop on the ground from bumping legs when they are wearing SHIN GUARDS!

 

[AbeBeta]

I've enjoyed watching certain games of the World Cup... but the 1 thing that beats me down more than anything is the FLOPS.

My God man... I thought NBA players had the FLOP down to a science... these soccer players take it a whole other level and its absolutely ridiculous.

Unlike in the NBA, you can be penalized for a flop -- I've seen at least 5 yellow cards for flopping during the tournament -- 2 yellow cards and you miss the next game.

The NBA might do well to penalize in that manner

 

[AbeBeta]

Took the words right out of my mouth. I've watched a little too Hos, and I agree with #7 also. It's like you're an ignorant, uncultured, imperialist if you don't watch soccer, and that's preposterous. What makes that sport more important than the sports I like to watch?

It's so predictable what's going to happen in the US, because it's happened the past few world cups since we hosted in 1994. The nation gets energized for one month, for one tournament. Then for four years no one talks about it. Wonder why we don't get "talked down" to when we don't watch the MLS or the overseas leagues??

The sport is more important to me because this is a WORLD event -- not some psuedo-world event like the World series. These are the best players in the world competing for their countries. Unlike, say Olypmic basketball, where many players are too selfish to represent their country.

This is a major event that happens once every four years. That's why folks get energized by it -- however without quality play to watch in this country it is easy to see why fans don't get excited. The MLS sucks -- I wouldn't expect anyone to watch it. The European leagues are great but it is bit much to expect that fans would watch those games.

Frankly, US fans aren't going to get into soccer until there is a US superstar on the level of David Beckham - we get a guy who the men want to be and the ladies want to be with as the face of US soccer and you'll see a huge craze.

 

[peplaw06]

The sport is more important to me because this is a WORLD event -- not some psuedo-world event like the World series. These are the best players in the world competing for their countries. Unlike, say Olypmic basketball, where many players are too selfish to represent their country.

This is a major event that happens once every four years. That's why folks get energized by it -- however without quality play to watch in this country it is easy to see why fans don't get excited. The MLS sucks -- I wouldn't expect anyone to watch it. The European leagues are great but it is bit much to expect that fans would watch those games.

Frankly, US fans aren't going to get into soccer until there is a US superstar on the level of David Beckham - we get a guy who the men want to be and the ladies want to be with as the face of US soccer and you'll see a huge craze.

I never heard "you should be watching the World Baseball Classic." Went to a WBC game (Korea v. Mexico), and it was great, but I never got it rammed down my throat.

Did anyone hear Bryant Gumbel's take on the Winter Olympics?? To paraphrase, he said he wouldn't watch them, because they say the Olympics are the best athletes of their countries competing for their pride, yet there were no black athletes in the Winter Olympics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0e98cKT5sc

Then he did a take on the World Cup. He took the complete opposite stance... while again getting his political jab in there...

http://newsbusters.org/node/6014

“Finally tonight, a few words about World Cup soccer. Please spare me the stifled yawns and typical American gripes about how boring the sport can be. For God's sake, we're a nation that venerates one-nothing baseball games, watches cars make endless left-hand turns and televises people playing poker and dominoes.

“Now, I confess that I barely know a corner kick from a free kick. I don't get the logic of why they call off sides and I think the whole yellow card/red card thing is melodramatic. But these Cup games are athletic, intense, passionate and driven by a blend of patriotism and nationalism that is real and not commercial.


“In short, these games offer everything the Olympics want to claim and try to sell every four years. You think the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry is intense? Or Michigan-Ohio State? How about the emotional and historic implications of a match-up between German and Poland? Or the stakes involved for players from Iran or Croatia. Or how spirits are lifted when a nation like Ghana wins or tiny Togo even tries.


“Yes, I know that in soccer they score about as often as Ann Coulter makes sense. And yes I know they all act like drama queens whenever they're fouled. But if you haven't watched any of the World Cup matches from Germany you should try it. You won't be disappointed. And after years of repeating the standard American denials, you might even have to admit that the rest of the world is onto something.”

Monumental flip-flops not withstanding, this is precisely the type of condescending crap I can't stand. Don't tell me what I should be watching. Especially when you don't know anything about the sport yourself.

 

[AbeBeta]

I never heard "you should be watching the World Baseball Classic." Went to a WBC game (Korea v. Mexico), and it was great, but I never got it rammed down my throat.

Did anyone hear Bryant Gumbel's take on the Winter Olympics?? To paraphrase, he said he wouldn't watch them, because they say the Olympics are the best athletes of their countries competing for their pride, yet there were no black athletes in the Winter Olympics.

Monumental flip-flops not withstanding, this is precisely the type of condescending crap I can't stand. Don't tell me what I should be watching. Especially when you don't know anything about the sport yourself.

Where is the flip-flop? Increasingly folks throw that phrase out when it doesn't make any sense. He hates the Winter Olympics and loves the World Cup. He doesn't like the Winter Olympics because he sees it as exclusionary. There is no such problem with the World Cup as, unlike Winter sports, you don't need lots of cash to play.

If you don't like Gumble's political stance that is fine -- you maybe shouldn't be watching his show then. In case you haven't noticed though, his show Real Sports -- which I think is the best sports show on TV -- deals with sports issues in a broader societal context. It is his show and he gets to give his opinion -- take it or leave it -- but don't make it about more than it should be.

 

[peplaw06]

Where is the flip-flop? Increasingly folks throw that phrase out when it doesn't make any sense. He hates the Winter Olympics and loves the World Cup. He doesn't like the Winter Olympics because he sees it as exclusionary. There is no such problem with the World Cup as, unlike Winter sports, you don't need lots of cash to play.

If you don't like Gumble's political stance that is fine -- you maybe shouldn't be watching his show then. In case you haven't noticed though, his show Real Sports -- which I think is the best sports show on TV -- deals with sports issues in a broader societal context. It is his show and he gets to give his opinion -- take it or leave it -- but don't make it about more than it should be.

The flip-flop is the fact that he doesn't know anything about either sporting event. Yet because one sport has black athletes participating he's all for it, while if the other doesn't he says "don't tell me these are the best athletes in the world." If a white person said something like this, he would be crucified. Both events involve a sense of national pride... both events struggle to draw American viewers because for the most part, they involve obscure sports. So what is the difference in the "sports??"

Cash?? Yeah it takes a lot of money to ride a sled down a chute, or to slide rocks down some ice, or to put on a pair of ice skates. Give me one example of the Winter Olympics being "exclusionary." There are black athletes in the Winter games. And there is a world cup game on right now that doesn't have a single black athlete on the field. Isn't the real difference in climate?? For example, Carribean and South American countries can't bobsled or ski, because they don't have ice and snow? And there are still the exceptions to that rule... i.e. Jamaican bobsled team.

Is that really being exclusionary? Or is it just another opportunity to play the race card? And when Bryant Gumbel labels what is and isn't exclusionary, forgive me if I question it. Where's his street cred? He doesn't exactly have his finger on the pulse of the Black Community. ("White people like Wayne Brady because he makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcolm X." -- Paul Mooney on Chappelle's Show)

And just to be clear I don't watch his show, never have... And judging from these recent comments, never will. Why can't he appreciate sports for what they are, instead of overanalyzing and complaining about every little thing.

 

[AbeBeta]

The flip-flop is the fact that he doesn't know anything about either sporting event. Yet because one sport has black athletes participating he's all for it, while if the other doesn't he says "don't tell me these are the best athletes in the world." If a white person said something like this, he would be crucified. Both events involve a sense of national pride... both events struggle to draw American viewers because for the most part, they involve obscure sports. So what is the difference in the "sports??"

Not a flip flop. That's a consistent opinion based on one evaluative criteria -- the inclusion of Blacks. Seriously, you can't just call everything a "flip flop" -- just because that sort of lame logic works in Presidential elections doesn't mean it is an effective strategy to apply to any argument.

And guess what? Black folks were serious oppressed in this country for a very long time -- That gives the right to complain about exclusion and point it out where it exists. Besides, it would sound downright ******** for a white person to say something like that -- what we be said? "I won't be listening to any rap this year as the topics of most songs exclude the White experience" -- see, stupid.

Cash?? Yeah it takes a lot of money to ride a sled down a chute, or to slide rocks down some ice, or to put on a pair of ice skates. Give me one example of the Winter Olympics being "exclusionary." There are black athletes in the Winter games. And there is a world cup game on right now that doesn't have a single black athlete on the field. Isn't the real difference in climate?? For example, Carribean and South American countries can't bobsled or ski, because they don't have ice and snow? And there are still the exceptions to that rule... i.e. Jamaican bobsled team.

Are you serious. Have you ever been anywhere that you might actually ski or bobsled? First, you've got to travel a considerable distance to a resort -- and usually if you are poor you live hella far from there. Next, you have to buy equipment -- e.g. skis, etc. Also, you have to pay fees to use the course, etc. I'm just talking the U.S. here. How can you reasonably argue that a Black athlete from South Central Los Angeles (an area that is only about 2 hours from many ski resorts) is as likely to participate as an upper middle class White kid from Orange County? Same climate.

Italy and Germany have 1 Black on either roster. This is likely because most Blacks in both countries are African immigrants who are far more likely to play on their home country's squad. And, in case you forgot, Germany engaged in some pretty extreme ethnic cleansing in the 30's and 40's - so their pool of non-White players is a bit thin.

Is that really being exclusionary? Or is it just another opportunity to play the race card? And when Bryant Gumbel labels what is and isn't exclusionary, forgive me if I question it. Where's his street cred? He doesn't exactly have his finger on the pulse of the Black Community. ("White people like Wayne Brady because he makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcolm X." -- Paul Mooney on Chappelle's Show)

And just to be clear I don't watch his show, never have... And judging from these recent comments, never will. Why can't he appreciate sports for what they are, instead of overanalyzing and complaining about every little thing.

Play the race card? Another nice bit of sloganism reflecting how uncomfortable folks are with race. Some folks want to ignore it. That is a stupid way to deal with any problem. Isn't it convenient that it is always Black folks that get labeled as "playing the race card"? What an easy way to discount a legitimate argument.

Real Sports is an intelligent show that you should watch before you degrade it. He hosts it but generally doesn't do the main stories. Seriously man, it is a very smart show.

 

[Hostile]

How did my nice article turn into such an ugly topic?

 

[peplaw06]

Not a flip flop. That's a consistent opinion based on one evaluative criteria -- the inclusion of Blacks. Seriously, you can't just call everything a "flip flop" -- just because that sort of lame logic works in Presidential elections doesn't mean it is an effective strategy to apply to any argument.

OK, maybe a poor choice of words in "flip-flop." You're right, he didn't take the exact same issue and change opinions on it. What he did do, is take the exact same issue and change opinions on it based on what he sees as an example of what racial makeup a sport has to have to be legitimate. Technically not a flip-flop I guess. It is however, a tad hypocritical. Especially when he is only looking at the sport on its face without really knowing the racial issues soccer/football has had.

You could make the argument that soccer has some of the most racist fans, coaches, and players of any other sport worldwide. Anyone see the Outside the Lines story on Thierry Henry and his experiences with racial slurs being thrown at him, or coaches belittling him to their players?? Is this the sport Gumbel is hailing as a beacon of racial harmony??

And guess what? Black folks were serious oppressed in this country for a very long time -- That gives the right to complain about exclusion and point it out where it exists.

Spare me the rehashing of racial group's interactions in this country. I know very well the history. But you're right about having the right to complain, I never said otherwise, but you have to be consistent. As explained above, this isn't consistent. There are black athletes in both the world cup and the Olympics. And there is racism in both events, though I would argue that racism in soccer is more in your face.

Besides, it would sound downright ******** for a white person to say something like that -- what we be said? "I won't be listening to any rap this year as the topics of most songs exclude the White experience" -- see, stupid.

Alright, you want a hypothetical example?? Let's say, oh I don't know, Bill Walton (insert your preferred white commentator here), comes out and says... "I don't know about you, but I won't be watching the NBA. The NBA claims that these players are the best athletes in the world, but I don't believe them, because there are is an apparent lack of white athletes in the league." Do you mean to tell me he wouldn't face the wrath of the entire modern media? Of course he would, and he should. Why hasn't Gumbel faced the same kind of scrutiny?? And how is it stupid to want to see consistency?

Are you serious. Have you ever been anywhere that you might actually ski or bobsled? First, you've got to travel a considerable distance to a resort -- and usually if you are poor you live hella far from there. Next, you have to buy equipment -- e.g. skis, etc. Also, you have to pay fees to use the course, etc. I'm just talking the U.S. here. How can you reasonably argue that a Black athlete from South Central Los Angeles (an area that is only about 2 hours from many ski resorts) is as likely to participate as an upper middle class White kid from Orange County? Same climate.

Let's see, I lived in LA, and went skiing/snowboarding at these close ski resorts. You're right, it's not very accessible for the South Central Black Athlete in this climate. But it's also not very accessible to me because there's a limited amount of time these resorts are open.

My argument is that it's more a function of climate though. There aren't very many Winter Olympic athletes from Southern California, unless you're talking about snowboarding, where there are a handful. Most skiiers are from places with more favorable climates for these sports. Curlers are from Minnesota. Hockey players from the north or midwest. Getting it?

And why limit it to the US?? The US never dominates the Winter Games like they do the Summer games. You know who the dominate countries are in the Winter Games? Germany, Russia, Scandinavian countries.... Countries where the climate is favorable for athletes to train almost year round. I'm talking about world wide here, not just the US. There are entire countries... many which have a large black population... that don't have ANY athletes in the Winter Games, because they can't train for them.

Italy and Germany have 1 Black on either roster. This is likely because most Blacks in both countries are African immigrants who are far more likely to play on their home country's squad. And, in case you forgot, Germany engaged in some pretty extreme ethnic cleansing in the 30's and 40's - so their pool of non-White players is a bit thin.

Play the race card? Another nice bit of sloganism reflecting how uncomfortable folks are with race. Some folks want to ignore it. That is a stupid way to deal with any problem. Isn't it convenient that it is always Black folks that get labeled as "playing the race card"? What an easy way to discount a legitimate argument.

A legitimate argument would be to look at the merits of the sports and evaluate the sports based on that. Looking solely to a sport's racial makeup and discounting it because of a lack of black athletes without knowing anything about the game, or the actual treatment of races in the game is bigotry and illegitimate.

I mean look at the countries he singled out... He said there is a huge sense of pride when Germany plays Poland in soccer, but wouldn't there be a similar sense of pride if they played each other in hockey?? He's basically pretending to care about the political ramifications. He should just come out and say "The Winter Games are illegitimate because there are no blacks," but "The World Cup is great, even though I don't know what's going on in a game, because they have black athletes playing."

 

[AbeBeta]

OK, maybe a poor choice of words in "flip-flop." You're right, he didn't take the exact same issue and change opinions on it. What he did do, is take the exact same issue and change opinions on it based on what he sees as an example of what racial makeup a sport has to have to be legitimate. Technically not a flip-flop I guess. It is however, a tad hypocritical. Especially when he is only looking at the sport on its face without really knowing the racial issues soccer/football has had.

To say that Gumble does not know the racial issues involved in soccer is wrong. Real Sports did a detailed story on Race Issues in Soccer -- From the show here's a description of that segment "In September, REAL SPORTS concluded a three-year investigation into the disturbing prevalence of racism in European soccer. The extreme fan behavior caught on camera included the mimicking of monkey sounds and the throwing of bananas anytime a black player touched the ball, as well as the waving of swastikas and open **** salutes. Speaking with Bryant Gumbel, players such as Thierry Henry of England's Arsenal revealed that in parts of Europe "home field advantage" has less to do with the color of one's jersey and more to do with the color of one's skin. The segment includes interviews with former English professional soccer player Carl Saunders; Piara Powar, the driving force behind Europe's largest Anti-Racism campaign; National Front leader Steve Reynolds; and Lars-Christer Olsson, CEO of UEFA, European football's governing body."

The reporter on this story was Bryant Gumble himself - Gumble doesn't do a large percentage of the stories on Real Sports so this was an issue he took particular interest in. As with all Real Sports stories, it wasn't fluff. It was detailed, fair, and presented multiple sides of the issues. Gumble won the Sports Emmy for the story.

You could make the argument that soccer has some of the most racist fans, coaches, and players of any other sport worldwide. Anyone see the Outside the Lines story on Thierry Henry and his experiences with racial slurs being thrown at him, or coaches belittling him to their players?? Is this the sport Gumbel is hailing as a beacon of racial harmony??

Dude, you are watching Outside the Lines but won't watch Real Sports?

Gumble never said this was a beacon of racial harmony -- only that it was not exclusionary. Taking it a step further, FIFA has launched a major campaign to fight racism -- including severe penalties such as teams losings ranking or being placed in lower leagues (sent down they call it). The harshest penalty involves the team's country being disqualified from the World Cup. So if the English fans won't stop being racist scum, then England won't be at the next cup (which may be the best thing for the English fans).

Spare me the rehashing of racial group's interactions in this country. I know very well the history. But you're right about having the right to complain, I never said otherwise, but you have to be consistent. As explained above, this isn't consistent. There are black athletes in both the world cup and the Olympics. And there is racism in both events, though I would argue that racism in soccer is more in your face. Alright, you want a hypothetical example?? Let's say, oh I don't know, Bill Walton (insert your preferred white commentator here), comes out and says... "I don't know about you, but I won't be watching the NBA. The NBA claims that these players are the best athletes in the world, but I don't believe them, because there are is an apparent lack of white athletes in the league." Do you mean to tell me he wouldn't face the wrath of the entire modern media? Of course he would, and he should. Why hasn't Gumbel faced the same kind of scrutiny?? And how is it stupid to want to see consistency?

In B-ball's case, that would just be stupid. White guys have the opportuntity to play -- but for whatever reason, there aren't so many that are good enough to play in the NBA. That's different from never having the chance to compete b/c it is a rich kids sport.

Again, you can't simply turn that around and say "but if a white guy said it" -- that is the same logic that White Power groups use.

Let's see, I lived in LA, and went skiing/snowboarding at these close ski resorts. You're right, it's not very accessible for the South Central Black Athlete in this climate. But it's also not very accessible to me because there's a limited amount of time these resorts are open.

My argument is that it's more a function of climate though. There aren't very many Winter Olympic athletes from Southern California, unless you're talking about snowboarding, where there are a handful. Most skiiers are from places with more favorable climates for these sports. Curlers are from Minnesota. Hockey players from the north or midwest. Getting it?

In the 2000 census African Americans made up 19.5% of the total population in the South of course there aren't many Winter Sports there. AAs are only 5.5% of the population in the West. In the Northeast it is 12.2% of the total population and in the Midwest it is 10.6%. That's about 13 million black folks in the North and Midwest. So you gotta ask if most Winter Athletes come from those areas, why aren't Black folks about 10% of the Olympians.

And why limit it to the US?? The US never dominates the Winter Games like they do the Summer games. You know who the dominate countries are in the Winter Games? Germany, Russia, Scandinavian countries.... Countries where the climate is favorable for athletes to train almost year round. I'm talking about world wide here, not just the US. There are entire countries... many which have a large black population... that don't have ANY athletes in the Winter Games, because they can't train for them.

I think you underestimate the size of the Black population in other counties as well. African is to Europe what Mexico is to the U.S. A huge source of labor. Take a look a map -- that part will make more sense

A legitimate argument would be to look at the merits of the sports and evaluate the sports based on that. Looking solely to a sport's racial makeup and discounting it because of a lack of black athletes without knowing anything about the game, or the actual treatment of races in the game is bigotry and illegitimate.

I mean look at the countries he singled out... He said there is a huge sense of pride when Germany plays Poland in soccer, but wouldn't there be a similar sense of pride if they played each other in hockey?? He's basically pretending to care about the political ramifications. He should just come out and say "The Winter Games are illegitimate because there are no blacks," but "The World Cup is great, even though I don't know what's going on in a game, because they have black athletes playing."

What sort of detailed argument do you want from a 30 second commentary? First you complain about him giving his opinion, then you want a more detailed and justified explanation from him. Hence, you want more of his opinions. I gotta call you a flip-flopper on this one.

 

[peplaw06]

To say that Gumble does not know the racial issues involved in soccer is wrong. Real Sports did a detailed story on Race Issues in Soccer -- From the show here's a description of that segment "In September, REAL SPORTS concluded a three-year investigation into the disturbing prevalence of racism in European soccer.

The reporter on this story was Bryant Gumble himself - Gumble doesn't do a large percentage of the stories on Real Sports so this was an issue he took particular interest in. As with all Real Sports stories, it wasn't fluff. It was detailed, fair, and presented multiple sides of the issues. Gumble won the Sports Emmy for the story.

Then why in the world is he being inconsistent?? It seems to me, both sports have an element of racism. Soccer more prevalent IMO than the Winter Olympics. Aside from the African and Caribbean nations, where the majority of the population is black, there aren't a lot of black soccer players playing for these teams. When you boil it down, he has discounted one sporting event because "they don't have the best (read "black") athletes."

Dude, you are watching Outside the Lines but won't watch Real Sports?

1. I don't watch OTL very often. I happened to catch this story flipping through channels.

2. I won't watch Real Sports, because Gumbel parades as a "sports" show while taking political jabs. I can get the same information from other outlets who don't feel the need to take irrelevant political shots.

Gumble never said this was a beacon of racial harmony -- only that it was not exclusionary. Taking it a step further, FIFA has launched a major campaign to fight racism -- including severe penalties such as teams losings ranking or being placed in lower leagues (sent down they call it). The harshest penalty involves the team's country being disqualified from the World Cup. So if the English fans won't stop being racist scum, then England won't be at the next cup (which may be the best thing for the English fans).

I still have yet to see how the Winter Games are exclusionary. I have the stats later in the post. As for the campaign to fight racism, the USOC has taken steps to try to recruit minorities. "Bobsled went into a recruiting process about two or three Olympics ago and it went after the track athlete rather than a bobsled driver or pusher. Recruited a lot of minorities. That spreads and other minorities see it on TV and say, 'Hey, I can do that', and they want to become part of it. More and more minority athletes are competing in sports such as speed skating, luge, bobsled, and skeleton." Is this not enough? Does anyone know about this? If Gumbel is praising the World Cup for their fight against racism, why not the same praise for the Olympic team? Once again an example of hypocrisy.

In B-ball's case, that would just be stupid. White guys have the opportuntity to play -- but for whatever reason, there aren't so many that are good enough to play in the NBA. That's different from never having the chance to compete b/c it is a rich kids sport.

Do you know for a fact that black athletes don't have the opportunity to participate in Winter Sports simply because of money? Wonder how many tried out and didn't make it? How many just aren't interested? Again, I don't think it costs all that much to play these sports, and if you're really interested, there are ways to get where you want to go if you don't have the money. And they're reaching out to the black community on top of that.

Again, you can't simply turn that around and say "but if a white guy said it"

Why not??

-- that is the same logic that White Power groups use.

Does that make it bad logic? Does that mean it's any less inconsistent to let one guy skate and berate another for saying the same thing?

In the 2000 census African Americans made up 19.5% of the total population in the South of course there aren't many Winter Sports there. AAs are only 5.5% of the population in the West. In the Northeast it is 12.2% of the total population and in the Midwest it is 10.6%. That's about 13 million black folks in the North and Midwest. So you gotta ask if most Winter Athletes come from those areas, why aren't Black folks about 10% of the Olympians.

Of the 211 athletes making up Team USA, at least 23 member have Hispanic or non-white backgrounds. (11%) Yeah, this 11% isn't all black athletes, but the numbers are going up. How again are they being exclusionary?? Participation by minority athletes has nearly quadrupled from the U.S. squad that competed just eight years ago in Nagano, Japan. These include medalists Shani Davis and Vonetta Flowers. In comparison, the US Soccer team has 4 black players (Johnson, Beasley, Pope, Onyewu) out of 23. 17%... compare that to the US percentage (nation-wide because Southerners play soccer) of 13% or so... doesn't seem to be all that much difference.

I think you underestimate the size of the Black population in other counties as well. African is to Europe what Mexico is to the U.S. A huge source of labor. Take a look a map -- that part will make more sense.

So do these European countries exclude blacks from their soccer teams?? If I'm underestimating the black population in Europe, then I should see more black players on the European teams right?

What sort of detailed argument do you want from a 30 second commentary? First you complain about him giving his opinion, then you want a more detailed and justified explanation from him. Hence, you want more of his opinions. I gotta call you a flip-flopper on this one.

Wait, is this a presidential election?? Aren't you just throwing around the term flip-flopper? Where did I flip-flop? Aren't you flip-flopping by calling me a flip-flopper when you don't like that term being thrown around?? Confused yet... I am.

I don't want anything from Gumbel, really, especially not any more of his opinions, cause I really don't put much stock in his opinions. I am just calling him out on his inconsistency and hypocrisy. You don't have to try especially hard to remain concistent in a 30 second commentary. I don't want any more details. I know what he's said. And I believe he's being inconsistent.

 

[AbeBeta]

Then why in the world is he being inconsistent?? It seems to me, both sports have an element of racism. Soccer more prevalent IMO than the Winter Olympics. Aside from the African and Caribbean nations, where the majority of the population is black, there aren't a lot of black soccer players playing for these teams. When you boil it down, he has discounted one sporting event because "they don't have the best (read "black") athletes."

Different kinds of racism. One stems from the fact that the set up of the games and the types of sports involved are more familiar people with money... and since poverty is not equally distributed across ethnic groups, this tends to exclude blacks. The other's racism is from the fans -- but we've seen that sort of thing before in sports like baseball. You overcome that by letting the idiots know their opinions are not welcome.

2. I won't watch Real Sports, because Gumbel parades as a "sports" show while taking political jabs. I can get the same information from other outlets who don't feel the need to take irrelevant political shots.

So you base your evaluation on two 30 second clips? Honestly, I've seen about 40 episodes and I've rarely heard anything political. That is a tiny percentage of the program -- if one was parading as a sports show I'd expect far more political content

But really, you can't say dookie about the show as you've admittedly never seen it and won't.

I still have yet to see how the Winter Games are exclusionary. I have the stats later in the post. As for the campaign to fight racism, the USOC has taken steps to try to recruit minorities. "Bobsled went into a recruiting process about two or three Olympics ago and it went after the track athlete rather than a bobsled driver or pusher. Recruited a lot of minorities. That spreads and other minorities see it on TV and say, 'Hey, I can do that', and they want to become part of it. More and more minority athletes are competing in sports such as speed skating, luge, bobsled, and skeleton." Is this not enough? Does anyone know about this? If Gumbel is praising the World Cup for their fight against racism, why not the same praise for the Olympic team? Once again an example of hypocrisy.

As far as I recall Gumble praised soccer for their efforts -- I noted that FIFA is finally taking action to address fan's racist behaviors.

Bobsleding is doing a good job -- in fact, among the numbers you cite about 1/3rd of the minority participants are on the bobsled team. Honestly, the USOC can thank the Jamacians for that -- seeing someone who looks like you doing something makes it seem possible.

It isn't hypocrisy -- one sport has a number of minority players -- look at the French team, they are captained by an Algerian immigrant, their goaltender is Basque, over half the team are Black, and they've even got a guy who, by his name, I'm guessing is Indian (actually I looked him up, he's Indio-Marutian, yeah, I have no idea what that means either). The other sport has far fewer blacks, just like the republican convention that Gumble referred to.

Gumble speaks to who is competing -- that was his point.

Do you know for a fact that black athletes don't have the opportunity to participate in Winter Sports simply because of money? Wonder how many tried out and didn't make it? How many just aren't interested? Again, I don't think it costs all that much to play these sports, and if you're really interested, there are ways to get where you want to go if you don't have the money. And they're reaching out to the black community on top of that.
.

Obviously neither of us can say defitively the reason why people aren't participating -- we can use reason and logic as I've done to explain things. And you can continue to reject that logic.

So do these European countries exclude blacks from their soccer teams?? If I'm underestimating the black population in Europe, then I should see more black players on the European teams right?

See my comments about the French team above -- also, we'd have to have a clear understanding of immigration laws etc here as most of the black players would be African immigrants. Many of these players may not be able to become citizens in some European countries. France is a top destination for African immigrants because many speak French - so that's the country you'd expect the largest population .... and guess what, their team reflects that.

Also, if there are top quality players out there that aren't competing for their countries in the cup, I'd love to know who they are. Because I've seen all the best guys.

Now, I do agree with you that some countries might exclude black players in some cases -- for example, it wouldn't surprise me if the Germans didn't take a black guy who was a little better than a white player (though Klinsmann is doing things very differently than past coaches).

I don't want anything from Gumbel, really, especially not any more of his opinions, cause I really don't put much stock in his opinions. I am just calling him out on his inconsistency and hypocrisy. You don't have to try especially hard to remain concistent in a 30 second commentary. I don't want any more details. I know what he's said. And I believe he's being inconsistent.

And I think that you react to his comments without an understanding of the program. To have seen about a minute of the 50 or so hours of the show and evaluate it negatively seems a very unfair conclusion to reach. Either that or you think Ann Coulter actually makes sense.

 

[AbeBeta]

How did my nice article turn into such an ugly topic?

I thought we were having a pretty reasonable discussion here. I don't want folks to think this is ugly -- I totally respect Pep's point of view but I disagree totally as well.

 

[baj1dallas]

Number 11 is great. I bet you could get fans from all over the world behind that one.

The "dives" don't bother me so much. Most of the time it's not actually diving, they get tripped. If they got all of them right (ie called the dives) and didn't call slight contact a foul, I'd be happy, but I don't think most USians would know the difference.

Anyway watch France play Italy and you'll see one team (France) that fights through contact and never dives, versus the complete opposite (Italy) that lacks the skill to fight through contact and thus has to dive.

 

[peplaw06]

I'm gonna shorten this up, don't have all day...

Different kinds of racism... The other's racism is from the fans...

It's more than just the fans. Coaches are guilty as well. Who was the coach telling his players they should be embarrassed for letting Henry beat them??

So you base your evaluation on two 30 second clips? Honestly, I've seen about 40 episodes and I've rarely heard anything political. That is a tiny percentage of the program -- if one was parading as a sports show I'd expect far more political content

But really, you can't say dookie about the show as you've admittedly never seen it and won't.

What is the "magic number" of clips I have to see to know I don't like a program?? Completely subjective... thus my opinion is warranted. You know what they say... Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. (Well, Bush would something like "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice......... BUT WE CAN'T GET FOOLED AGAIN!!":laugh1 Well I've seen it come from him twice, that's enough. I would venture a guess that you don't notice the political jabs, because you largely agree with his shots, just like you guessed I thought Coulter made sense.

As far as I recall Gumble praised soccer for their efforts -- I noted that FIFA is finally taking action to address fan's racist behaviors.

Good for him, but the Olympics deserve the same praise. Instead of praising them, he shoots their efforts down or ignores them.

It isn't hypocrisy -- one sport has a number of minority players -- look at the French team, they are captained by an Algerian immigrant, their goaltender is Basque, over half the team are Black, and they've even got a guy who, by his name, I'm guessing is Indian (actually I looked him up, he's Indio-Marutian, yeah, I have no idea what that means either). The other sport has far fewer blacks, just like the republican convention that Gumble referred to.

Gumble speaks to who is competing -- that was his point.

The numbers I provided are of minorities competing. Same thing, but no love. I am aware of the French roster, but they are largely the exception of the European teams.

 

[Hostile]

I thought we were having a pretty reasonable discussion here. I don't want folks to think this is ugly -- I totally respect Pep's point of view but I disagree totally as well.

I was kidding a little. It was a funny article and got so serious. I really do agree with #7 though.

BTW, Gumbel is a jerk, and not just over the opinions stated which you guys have been discussing. I know someone who has met him. I understand what he is saying, but it's very hard for me to respect his opinions.