2014 Boston Red Sox Action

[ABQCOWBOY]

If you had to pick one team in sports who has historically been the most successful team of all of the teams in all 4 major sports, what team would that be? Its not an NFL team. Not an NBA team. Not an NHL team. Not a NL team in MLB. Not a MLB team in the AL West or Central. Not even the O's, Jays, Rays, or Bosox in the AL East. There is only one team left.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

If you had to pick out ONE team in all of pro sports that has the reputation of buying or trying to buy championships on a regular basis, what team would that be? Its not an NFL team. Not an NBA team. Not an NHL team. Not a NL team in MLB. Not a MLB team in the AL West or Central. Not even the O's, Jays, Rays, or Bosox in the AL East. There is only one team left.

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One time, they surround the original "core 4" with some help. Big deal. By the time the diamondbacks and Red Sox had already done it first.

1996-2000 - 4 WS in 5 years with mostly farm players.


You keep running with your one time "partial" story.

Let me know when your team hits 20 WS then we can have serious conversation.

 

[Rogah]

Last century or last 20 years...we average 25% of all World Series wins. Jealousy would be illogical.
Boston doesn't even count as baseballs #2 team... In any category... In any regard.

I agree - because they're #1 in championships this century.

The Yankees bought their own championship in 2009. Last year's Red Sox team was more "home grown" that those guys. Ditto the 2004 Red Sox (you remember them? They are the guys who came from 3-0 down against NY in the ALCS). Here's a question I know you won't answer: Does that 2009 championship feel any less because it was bought and paid for?

 

[Rogah]

If you had to pick one team in sports who has historically been the most successful team of all of the teams in all 4 major sports, what team would that be? Its not an NFL team. Not an NBA team. Not an NHL team. Not a NL team in MLB. Not a MLB team in the AL West or Central. Not even the O's, Jays, Rays, or Bosox in the AL East. There is only one team left.

You don't really know much about sports, do you? I'd take the Celtics first and the the Candiens. They each have a higher percentage of championship success than the Yankees.

 

[Rogah]

Let me know when your team hits 20 WS then we can have serious conversation.

I'd drink your tears! LOLOLOL!!

Congrats on doing a great impression of the typical Steelers fan..!!

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

One time, they surround the original "core 4" with some help. Big deal. By the time the diamondbacks and Red Sox had already done it first.

1996-2000 - 4 WS in 5 years with mostly farm players.


You keep running with your one time "partial" story.

Let me know when your team hits 20 WS then we can have serious conversation.

Nobody, let me repeat it, NOBODY but Skankee fans care about how may titles they have. If you year after year after year after year after year always have the highest payroll and spend the most on FA's then you oughta have the most titles. Its really no big deal.. Its like saying the guy who has the most money in his race car , wins the most, so he is the best. He oughta win the most if he spends the most. Its no real significant accomplishment. When the Marlins beat the Skankees in the WS that was a significant accomplishment. They achieved the ultimate prize that year with far less. That is something significant.

So when your team achieves something of significance THEN we can have a serious conversation.

BTW, whats far more significant than the number of WS titles, is how many they havent won when they should have with the $$$$ they spent. The failures are far more significant.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Nobody, let me repeat it, NOBODY but Skankee fans care about how may titles they have. If you year after year after year after year after year always have the highest payroll and spend the most on FA's then you oughta have the most titles. Its really no big deal.. Its like saying the guy who has the most money in his race car , wins the most, so he is the best. He oughta win the most if he spends the most. Its no real significant accomplishment. When the Marlins beat the Skankees in the WS that was a significant accomplishment. They achieved the ultimate prize that year with far less. That is something significant.

So when your team achieves something of significance THEN we can have a serious conversation.

BTW, whats far more significant than the number of WS titles, is how many they havent won when they should have with the $$$$ they spent. The failures are far more significant.

I'm not surprised. If I were the team that didn't own that record, I would probably feel the same way. Nobody but Seattle fans probably care much that they won the Super Bowl either. Not exactly a revelation.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You don't really know much about sports, do you? I'd take the Celtics first and the the Candiens. They each have a higher percentage of championship success than the Yankees.

They have the most championships. It's as simple as that. For all you know, it could take another 20 years to win another championship for either Boston or Montreal so that whole percentage discussion is a bit subjective to me. . Montreal has 24 since 1915 but of those, 23 came in their first 71 years of existence and only 1 in their last 28. Their last championship was 92-93, 21 years ago. Boston was founded in 1957. They have 17 and that's very impressive for sure but 13 of those came in the 1st 39 years of the franchise' existence. In the last 28, they have only won 1. Still very impressive but I think any objective person can see the trend.

I may not no much about sports but I know this much. 27 beats 24 or 17. What more do you need to know?

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

I'm not surprised. If I were the team that didn't own that record, I would probably feel the same way. Nobody but Seattle fans probably care much that they won the Super Bowl either. Not exactly a revelation.

The real difference is that while most fans of other teams dont care about teams winning it all, some of the other teams that win it get respect for the way they did it. Nobody but people in the NorthWest care about Seattle winning, but they can respect the team that was put together and how they played and how they won. With the Yankees, nobody is impressed, nor respects them when they win because they spend the most routinely so there is nothing to respect in that. The success isnt respected so much, but the failures are celebrated because the failures are far more significant than any of the success.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The real difference is that while most fans of other teams dont care about teams winning it all, some of the other teams that win it get respect for the way they did it. Nobody but people in the NorthWest care about Seattle winning, but they can respect the team that was put together and how they played and how they won. With the Yankees, nobody is impressed, nor respects them when they win because they spend the most routinely so there is nothing to respect in that. The success isnt respected so much, but the failures are celebrated because the failures are far more significant than any of the success.

I guarantee you that if Seattle won it 3 or 4 times in a relatively short period of time, everybody would hate them and there would be very little respect. Since they've only won it once, that does not come into play.

 

[Rogah]

They have the most championships. It's as simple as that.

Right. And equally simple is the 1st grade math employed to deduce that they do not have the highest percentage.

For all you know, it could take another 20 years to win another championship for either Boston or Montreal so that whole percentage discussion is a bit subjective to me. . Montreal has 24 since 1915 but of those, 23 came in their first 71 years of existence and only 1 in their last 28. Their last championship was 92-93, 21 years ago. Boston was founded in 1957. They have 17 and that's very impressive for sure but 13 of those came in the 1st 39 years of the franchise' existence. In the last 28, they have only won 1. Still very impressive but I think any objective person can see the trend.

Oh, well since we're throwing in arbitrary cut-off dates, how about this one: This millennium, the Red Sox have 3, the Cardinals have 2, the Giants have 2 and the Yankees have 1, ties with Arizona, Anaheim, Florida, Chicago, and Philly. It's that simple.

I may not no much about sports

That's for darn sure. You demonstrate thusly almost every time you opine on something.

but I know this much. 27 beats 24 or 17. What more do you need to know?

There are few things more abysmally pathetic than a fan thumping his chest over things that happened in the 30's, 40's and 50's. That's what Yankees fans are doing every time they mention the "27" number.

Yes, the Yankees were the dominant team in baseball during the FDR and Eisenhower administrations, before any of us on this forum were even born. If that helps you sleep better at night, so be it. As for myself, I would rather have the highest percentage, especially in regards to recent history, than a team whose glory days were 70 years ago.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

I guarantee you that if Seattle won it 3 or 4 times in a relatively short period of time, everybody would hate them and there would be very little respect. Since they've only won it once, that does not come into play.

Oh it comes into play even tho you're most likely correct about how people would feel if they won several more in a short time.

The prob with Yankee fans is they want to believe that everybody hates them just because they have won so many WS titles, as if its the ONLY reason. Its not. I can only speak from my own experience, but I didnt used to hate the Yankees. Growing up I liked many players on the Red Sox and Yankee teams even tho Im an Orioles fan. Sure I wanted to beat them when we played them, but I never hated them. I rooted for the Skanks in the WS in 77 & 78 when Reggie left the Orioles and signed with them. I liked Mickey Rivers, Nettles, Munson, Guidry, Sparky Lyle, Goose and a lot of their players. Don Mattingly was a guy I respected. I have a bat and several balls and pictures he signed when I used to collect autographs. I have a neat picture of him and Jack Clark standing together - both signed it. Jack Clark was one of my favorite players at the time. On the Sox I loved Fred Lynn & Dewey, Fisk, etc. Even Jim Rice, although Ive never liked Yaz.

I didnt start hating the Skankees until the mid 90's I guess. Dont have any use for the Sux either. Both teams and their fans are the reason. Both teams have some of the most obnoxious and arrogant fans of any in sports. Myriads of idiots. The Yanks get all the media attention and have the most money to spend - not good for baseball overall. The Sux fans are only relevant because the media makes them out to be that way as they try to make the rivalry between the 2 something bigger than it is. So the Sux fans act as if they're something they arent. Nobody cares about the rivalry except the fans of the 2 teams even tho the media portrays it as if its some national thing. It isnt in reality, only in a media created sense.

There are many reasons that fans from other teams hate the Skanks for, and its not just because of the #27. You guys tell yourself that, but its only a small part of it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Right. And equally simple is the 1st grade math employed to deduce that they do not have the highest percentage.

I do not think this statement is accurate. I never questioned your statement on percentages. That's all you.

Oh, well since we're throwing in arbitrary cut-off dates, how about this one: This millennium, the Red Sox have 3, the Cardinals have 2, the Giants have 2 and the Yankees have 1, ties with Arizona, Anaheim, Florida, Chicago, and Philly. It's that simple.

Seems like proof to me that spending big money is no guarantee at all of winning championships. At least, that's what I take from it. Seems like you would be happy that spending habits of teams do not translate into winning Championships in Baseball.

That's for darn sure. You demonstrate thusly almost every time you opine on something.

Thank you for your input. I'll consider the source and give that opinion it's due.

There are few things more abysmally pathetic than a fan thumping his chest over things that happened in the 30's, 40's and 50's. That's what Yankees fans are doing every time they mention the "27" number.

Oh, there are a few things. If you want to say that it's in poor taste to bring up 27 championships, that's fine but then, you can't really defend the whole "Spend More Money". Can't have it both ways.

As a side note, the Yankees also have the most WS wins since the 1960s to current with 9 so if you are a Yankees fan, it's really not about thumping your chest over the 30s, 40s and 50s, as you suggest. I'd say that Yankee fans can "Thump Their Chest" over what the Yankees have been able to accomplish over their entire History. JMO

Yes, the Yankees were the dominant team in baseball during the FDR and Eisenhower administrations, before any of us on this forum were even born. If that helps you sleep better at night, so be it. As for myself, I would rather have the highest percentage, especially in regards to recent history, than a team whose glory days were 70 years ago.

As I said before, the Yankees have been the most dominant team in MLB period, or to put it in the vernacular, not only before you were born but in your lifetime, as well. If your point is recent history, then they clearly eclipse both Montreal and Boston as well.

Montreal:

Last 10 years 0 titles.
Last 20 years 0 titles.
Last 30 years 3 titles.

Boston:

Last 10 years 1 title.
Last 20 years 1 title.
Last 30 years 4 titles.

Yankees:

Last 10 years 1 title.
Last 20 years 5 titles.
Last 30 years 5 titles.


I have nothing against the Canadians. They are not my team but I respect what they have been able to accomplish over their history. I actually don't like Boston at all but I have a great deal of respect for what they have been able to accomplish over their history even more so, precisely because I do not like them and have paid more attention to them. They are both great franchises and if they manage to eclipse the Yankees, I would not begrudge them in any way. However, the fact remains, no matter how you try and spin it, the Yankees have more championships.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The prob with Yankee fans is they want to believe that everybody hates them just because they have won so many WS titles, as if its the ONLY reason. Its not. I can only speak from my own experience, but I didnt used to hate the Yankees. Growing up I liked many players on the Red Sox and Yankee teams even tho Im an Orioles fan. Sure I wanted to beat them when we played them, but I never hated them. I rooted for the Skanks in the WS in 77 & 78 when Reggie left the Orioles and signed with them. I liked Mickey Rivers, Nettles, Munson, Guidry, Sparky Lyle, Goose and a lot of their players. Don Mattingly was a guy I respected. I have a bat and several balls and pictures he signed when I used to collect autographs. I have a neat picture of him and Jack Clark standing together - both signed it. Jack Clark was one of my favorite players at the time. On the Sox I loved Fred Lynn & Dewey, Fisk, etc. Even Jim Rice, although Ive never liked Yaz.

I didnt start hating the Skankees until the mid 90's I guess. Dont have any use for the Sux either. Both teams and their fans are the reason. Both teams have some of the most obnoxious and arrogant fans of any in sports. Myriads of idiots. The Yanks get all the media attention and have the most money to spend - not good for baseball overall. The Sux fans are only relevant because the media makes them out to be that way as they try to make the rivalry between the 2 something bigger than it is. So the Sux fans act as if they're something they arent. Nobody cares about the rivalry except the fans of the 2 teams even tho the media portrays it as if its some national thing. It isnt in reality, only in a media created sense.

There are many reasons that fans from other teams hate the Skanks for, and its not just because of the #27. You guys tell yourself that, but its only a small part of it.

I don't really have a problem with your disdain for the Yankees, any more then I would for a fan who hated the Commanders or the Giants. Heck, I'd throw a party for any fan who hated the Eagles. I hate the Eagles. Your team, the Orioles, play in the same division so I completely understand it. However, I think it's OK to spend money to try to win. Heck, I think it's wrong not to spend money if you can afford to spend it, in order to win. Maybe that's why I don't mind the Yankees. Either way, I don't think just spending money is the main reason for winning. As I said before, the core of the Yankees were all developed by the Yankees when they were winning. They spent money to add players and they spent money to keep those players, all of that is true but they were still all guys that came from the Yankees organization. I understand if that's something you don't care for but hey, I'd rather spend money on my own players so I don't really have an issue with it.

At the end of the day, it's not real personal for me. If there were not fans, like you, who didn't like the Yankees and didn't make it interesting, it would not be as fun for me so I'm OK with it.

 

[Rogah]

I do not think this statement is accurate.

OK, then by your own admission first grade math isn't so simple for you. But it is for me.

Seems like proof to me that spending big money is no guarantee at all of winning championships. At least, that's what I take from it. Seems like you would be happy that spending habits of teams do not translate into winning Championships in Baseball.

I do not like MLB's financial setup. A championship is a rare thing and nothing anyone does can "guarantee" anything. However, it simply cannot intelligently be denied that teams who can spend more have an unfair competitive advantage over teams that cannot. That is one of the reasons why I love the NFL's financial system so much.

Thank you for your input. I'll consider the source and give that opinion it's due.

Well, "the source" is yourself. All I did was agree with your admission that you may not know much about sports.

Oh by the way, since we're still doing arbitrary cutoff dates:

New York Yankees:
Last 10 years prior to the current season: 1 title

Boston Red Sox:
Last 10 years prior to the current season: 3 titles

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

OK, then by your own admission first grade math isn't so simple for you. But it is for me.
I do not like MLB's financial setup. A championship is a rare thing and nothing anyone does can "guarantee" anything. However, it simply cannot intelligently be denied that teams who can spend more have an unfair competitive advantage over teams that cannot. That is one of the reasons why I love the NFL's financial system so much.Well, "the source" is yourself. All I did was agree with your admission that you may not know much about sports.

I pretty much pay my own way all the time. I'm quickly learning that there are two kinds of math for you. The kind that supports your opinion, which is always correct apparently and the kind that doesn't, which translates to some kind of learning disability. Not surprising just interesting to watch you try and fit any given poster into these two types of designations.

For the record, I never said one thing about math 1st grade or otherwise. That's all you. You seem to get off on trying to emasculate peoples intelligence by using these 1st grade, 2nd grade discussions. It's fine but to be clear, no admission on my part has been discussed. In fact, that is all you once again.

You started by saying that I didn't know much about sports, which once again is fine. It's your opinion so whatever but as I have already proven, while great franchises both, Boston and Montreal really don't have anything on the Yankees. Not historically or near term. Now comes the real crux of your dislike I imagine. It's the money after all. I've never denied that spending money doesn't help a team win. I said that spending money doesn't guarantee championships but nothing near what you seem to suggest in your post above. If you don't like that the Yankees spend money, sucks for you. I'm guessing it's something you will just have to live with. If you can prove that other teams can not spend more money on players, that would be one thing but since MLB owners do not open their books, you have no way of proving this, so far as I know. Owners may be able to spend more but simply may choose not to. I don't know because I can't see what owners are pocketing and what they are actually spending on players, in comparison to their profits.

Oh by the way, since we're still doing arbitrary cutoff dates:

New York Yankees:
Last 10 years prior to the current season: 1 title

Boston Red Sox:
Last 10 years prior to the current season: 3 titles

Yeah, the Sox have had a good run these past 10 years. Can't really argue with that. Sucks that you didn't pick the Sox over the Canadians or the Celtics yeah?

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I agree - because they're #1 in championships this century.

The Yankees bought their own championship in 2009. Last year's Red Sox team was more "home grown" that those guys. Ditto the 2004 Red Sox (you remember them? They are the guys who came from 3-0 down against NY in the ALCS). Here's a question I know you won't answer: Does that 2009 championship feel any less because it was bought and paid for?

2009 was a "glad we got another for Jeter" WS win.
It was less "special" that any of the 4 in 5 years. Still glad to have it but you wanted honest and there it is.

Look, I get it. Again, when starving a cracker is like a steak for you guys. I get it.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

So when your team achieves something of significance THEN we can have a serious conversation.

BTW, whats far more significant than the number of WS titles, is how many they havent won when they should have with the $$$$ they spent. The failures are far more significant.

You cannot be taken serious with that comment. At all.


Yes, when you are in contention MOST OF THE TIME, you will have some big time failures. Duh!





Bonus for you guys. I love it when a team and it's fans cannot enjoy their success because they have another teams name in the heads. Ie. Yankees and Dallas cowboys. I just lol at those fans. They get that perplexed look of their face. Too funny.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Oh by the way, since we're still doing arbitrary cutoff dates:

New York Yankees:
Last 10 years prior to the current season: 1 title

Boston Red Sox:
Last 10 years prior to the current season: 3 titles

Ok, let's do last 100 years. Just as an arbitrary tidbit.... Lol

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

If we win it with Ellsbury... I would love to see you guys faces.

The curse and the terror never really ended. Sidetracked maybe...