2017 NBA Finals: Warriors vs Cavalier

khiladi

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I disagree with some parts. The league favors the big market teams and had Harden not demanded max salary, he and KD probably would've gotten one in OKC by now. I get why KD left but just seems like the coward's route to a ring. OKC actually was still building a very good team around him the time he leaves. I think it will be hysterical if KD goes into his choke routine and Lebron beats him again. If he was going to be a coward he should've gone all the way and just joined Lebron in Cleveland. No matter if and when KD does finally win a ring, few will remember him since he was surrounded by a team that could and had won without him.

Harden is the most-overrated player in the league who consistently chokes come playoff time. He was the worst player by far in the Miami-OKC series, going for like 6 for plus thirty from three point land, along with Westbrook, and Harden was primarily playing the second squad. Harden is the guy who had plus 14 turnovers last year in the series final against GS and this year, was shooting 30 percentile and getting locked down by Roberson and his defense is garbage.

Lebron didn't beat KD, Lebron had Wade and Bosh and KD show the most attempts of any player that series at 120 attempts, while nobody else broke 100. Wade, Bosh and Lebron ALL went to the FT line more than KD, and Shane Battier shot close to upper 50% from three point land that series. The FT disparity was heavily in Miami's favor in that series. Mike Miller only had to come in the playoffs and shoot threes during Lebron's career in Miami with all that depth. This team added guys like Birdman and Ray Allen (every championship team needs those type of quality veterans) and Chris Bosh was basically abusing Sam Perkins all day on the pick and roll all day, because Perkins is garbage.
 

_sturt_

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Floatyworm

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Contrats to KD on leading the western conference all star team to win the finals. In other news...in a similar vein the globetrotters beat the overmatched Washington Generals again...

After coming up short several times, KD joins the west all stars
Wonder how MJ would be remembered had he left Chicago and gone to Detroit after losing to them in the playoffs several times...

Exactly...Durant will alway be a sellout to me. He and Westbrook could have brought a title to OKC....may have had to fight for it.....But he just had to take the easy road. As an OKC fan...he's dead to me now.:rolleyes:
 

ghst187

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I do not have an issue with KD going to GS. It is not any different than Deion Sanders joining the Cowboys. Free Agency is part of the game so it should not surprise anyone when teams and or players use it to their advantage.

It's different for basketball than NFL because NFL teams are 11 + 11 and one player, esp a non-QB, is not going to swing the league balance of power. In basketball guys come and go a lot but those guys are role players not generational players. If you want to be a generational legend you don't run off and join the already best in the league team. You build a champion where one would not have been otherwise. That's your stamp. Standards are different for players like Lebron, KD, Kobe, Bird, MJ, etc. That's really what KD gave up when he not only left but blatantly went ring sniffing, his opportunity to become legend. Now he could win 8 rings in GS and he will always only be a great player that joined an already great team but wasn't good enough to get over the hump with just one other all star on his team, he needed three more.
The challenge was too much for him and essentially he gave up. That's why he won't be remembered along side players like MJ, Bird, Thomas, guys who stayed and built where they started. Yes I get it that FA is part of all pro sports but the reason we love sports is watching people work hard to overcome adversity, to fight, to struggle, to eventually (and hopefully) triumph. If that weren't the draw you'd never watch a three hour game or seven game series...you'd just go about your business and check the score later. If someone like KD joins his nemesis instead of fighting to eventually slay it, well that's just not all that interesting or legend-worthy....not how they're built.
 

jterrell

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I do not have an issue with KD going to GS. It is not any different than Deion Sanders joining the Cowboys. Free Agency is part of the game so it should not surprise anyone when teams and or players use it to their advantage.
No, it isn't. Deion was always a mercenary to be true but the NFL has a hard cap so Deion coming to Dallas for a whopping 30m total crippled Dallas financially going forward and robbed them of all depth.
The NBA cap is very different and GS is set to win for a long time as they simply need to retain their guys with no salary too high and add aging vets on minimum deals.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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It's different for basketball than NFL because NFL teams are 11 + 11 and one player, esp a non-QB, is not going to swing the league balance of power. In basketball guys come and go a lot but those guys are role players not generational players. If you want to be a generational legend you don't run off and join the already best in the league team. You build a champion where one would not have been otherwise. That's your stamp. Standards are different for players like Lebron, KD, Kobe, Bird, MJ, etc. That's really what KD gave up when he not only left but blatantly went ring sniffing, his opportunity to become legend. Now he could win 8 rings in GS and he will always only be a great player that joined an already great team but wasn't good enough to get over the hump with just one other all star on his team, he needed three more.
The challenge was too much for him and essentially he gave up. That's why he won't be remembered along side players like MJ, Bird, Thomas, guys who stayed and built where they started. Yes I get it that FA is part of all pro sports but the reason we love sports is watching people work hard to overcome adversity, to fight, to struggle, to eventually (and hopefully) triumph. If that weren't the draw you'd never watch a three hour game or seven game series...you'd just go about your business and check the score later. If someone like KD joins his nemesis instead of fighting to eventually slay it, well that's just not all that interesting or legend-worthy....not how they're built.

You're looking at history without context. Free agency was not what it was in the 70s-90s when compared to today. If Bird, Thomas, MJ were around in their prime today, with the money available and FA rules in place, those guys would have undoubtedly left their original teams at some point.

There's no rule that states you have to stay with one team to be a legend.
 

LittleBoyBlue

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No, it isn't. Deion was always a mercenary to be true but the NFL has a hard cap so Deion coming to Dallas for a whopping 30m total crippled Dallas financially going forward and robbed them of all depth.
The NBA cap is very different and GS is set to win for a long time as they simply need to retain their guys with no salary too high and add aging vets on minimum deals.


It was the price we paid because of the NFC title game loss the year before.

It helped get us sbxxx. So I'm good. Very good.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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This distaste for greatness is a modern phenomena created by social media and overexposure on sports outlets. Folks get fatigued with hearing about the greatness of Player X or Team Z so it becomes a natural byproduct to find reasons to knock them down.

Back in the 80-90s you dreamt of the Celts playing the Lakers, Detroit vs. the Bulls year-in year-out.
 

diefree666

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I would take Kobe over LeBron every tim


Ah I see...this makes sense why you are so bitter towards KD. Would you have cared if LeBron joined KD, Westbrook, and Hardin in OKC for a run of championships? I bet not.


Lebron is clearly able to get more out of players than Kobe ever did. He is also simply put a better player as well.
 

viman96

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Lebron is clearly able to get more out of players than Kobe ever did. He is also simply put a better player as well.

I do not agree LeBron is better but it is not like we need to feel the same so it is all good
 

_sturt_

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So Warriors vs. Cavs in 2018. Just skip the season.


THIS is the problem.

The misnomer is that it's always been a problem, but that's not exactly true.

While the Lakers and Celtics were the last pair of teams that were this dominant, any of us who were fans and paying attention in the 80s went into every season with good reason to think that other teams were also in the mix for the NBA Finals in that year. Maybe it was the Sixers, maybe it was the Hawks, maybe it was the Sonics, or maybe it was the Suns... or someone else...

But that's different than THIS, which is that you actually have such a divide between THESE TWO TEAMS and the others, nearly anyone who considers him/herself an NBA fan not only perceived them as the practical-shoe-ins for THIS 2016-17 NBA Finals, but ALSO as shoe-ins for the 2017-18 NBA Finals.

Adam Silver, say what you want, because really, what else can you do... you have to pretend that we're all stupid and buying it that you think this is all great for the league.

But people supporting the other 93% of your teams (28 of 30) who otherwise would be enthusiastic about their own teams are just not... and, if it were something that had happened organically, and comparably with how other teams "got good," that'd be one thing, but in this, the integrity of the achievement "NBA Champion" is compromised b/c it's a result of players manipulating the system to their ring chase, avoiding the mantra "yeah but he never won a championship."

Make no mistake, GSW did everything right, and I have no qualms with them--if you have that kind of player knocking on your door asking to come in and join your party, then look, you drafted and acquired talent in the way it's supposed to be, and there's no legit criticism that you let that player join.

The rightful beef lays with the players themselves who took a shortcut to achieving what EVERY other team who had achieved that (a championship) has ever had to do. It's a mockery and it's just repulsive, no matter how Silver plays it... and of all people, LBJ is the last person who can speak about the topic with any authenticity.

One more thing... to this comment above about Deion, I just want to elaborate a bit...

Basketball is unique among the three big revenue US sports, in that, one given starter can routinely influence the outcome of a given game to the tune of ~75%... ie, if he's averaging in the neighborhood of 36 of the 48 minutes of games played.

Let that sink in.

In football, a player who plays every snap for the offense or defense only affects ~50% of the game... ie, because he only plays on one side of the ball of course.

In baseball, there's the same.

And whereas, in basketball, it is not uncommon for a player to touch the ball nearly every time his team has possession, and thus has fullest opportunity to affect the game, in football, only the QB has that degree of certainty he will control the ball, and similarly, in baseball, only the SP.

And finally, when you're one of only 5 guys on the floor at any given time, versus being one of 9 or one of 11, naturally, from the git-go, you have an incredibly higher degree of effect on games.

Truly, there is no comparison to be made there.... and that, even if Deion had been a high-caliber QB.

It's ridiculous. And imo, if the NBA suits refuse to acknowledge the problem, then our free enterprise economic context leaves it to us, the consumers of their product, to refuse to go along and demand that the emperor put some clothes on.

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jterrell

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just give GSW the trophy already
just depend son health and what all LeBron can pull to CLE.
that's where game has devolved.
draymond green calling durant front he parking lot last year after losing
lebron calling players this year.

lebron is the best player in basketball but unless he is the best GM in basketball he will lose again in the finals next year.

only other option is if CLE can hire pop and outcoach his former pupil.
 
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I will be surprised if Cavaliers make the Finals next year, I am not sure if Lebron has the stamina to make 8 straight Finals....
 

PJTHEDOORS

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Lebron is clearly able to get more out of players than Kobe ever did. He is also simply put a better player as well.

Comparing a PF who can handle the ball to a SG who can handle the ball. Depends on what you want.
 
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jterrell

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Comparing a PF who can handle the ball to a SG who can handle the ball. Depends on what you want.
statistically there really is no case for kobe.
now stats dont always tell the entire story but in a debate kobe basically has on his side that he won more rings but that's it.
kobe was a 2 guard that averaged 2 less assists than a PF, lol.
lebron has a higher 3PT FG% which is nuts.
lebron has a slight edge in steals and blocks.
edge in rebounds.
lebron has a slightly higher PPG on fewer shots per game.
 
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