3-4 or 4-3, Which do you prefer?

[CowboyMark]

The cowboys have always been a 4-3 defense. Which is why I wasnt' comfortable at the beginning of last season. But after more than a year under our belts I can honestly say I love the 3-4. I think it's better. I like all the talent, speed, depth, strength, and youth we have on our defense. I hope we never go back to the 4-3. Thats just my opinion. What do the rest of you think?

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Doesnt matter which you play if you can create pressure.

At this point every team plays different variations of both at one time or another depending on the situation.

 

[Chuck 54]

I still prefer the 4-3 when you have the right personnel. It doesn't matter which defense you run if you don't have good players, and we didn't.

If we were in the 4-3 right now, Ferguson, Spears, and Glover (we'd have kept him) at DT, along with Ellis, Ware, Canty at DE....and Ratliff and Hatcher as more depth....wow...would be an incredible front 4.

At LB, we'd have Brady in the middle and Burnett and Ayodele on the outside, with CArpenter as depth...not to mention I'm sure we may have added some other outside guys by now.

I prefer two pass rushing DE's in the 4-3 to 3 non rushing linemen and 1 LB with pass rushing skills.

Anyhow, I'm very happy with our defense, but it's because we're putting better players out there, not because we're playing the superior scheme. There's a reason more teams still play the 4-3, and it's not because they are stupid.

 

[THUMPER]

I still prefer the 4-3 when you have the right personnel. It doesn't matter which defense you run if you don't have good players, and we didn't.

If we were in the 4-3 right now, Ferguson, Spears, and Glover (we'd have kept him) at DT, along with Ellis, Ware, Canty at DE....and Ratliff and Hatcher as more depth....wow...would be an incredible front 4.

At LB, we'd have Brady in the middle and Burnett and Ayodele on the outside, with CArpenter as depth...not to mention I'm sure we may have added some other outside guys by now.

I prefer two pass rushing DE's in the 4-3 to 3 non rushing linemen and 1 LB with pass rushing skills.

Anyhow, I'm very happy with our defense, but it's because we're putting better players out there, not because we're playing the superior scheme. There's a reason more teams still play the 4-3, and it's not because they are stupid.

Nicely said Wayne :starspin

 

[YosemiteSam]

It really depends on your players. If I were starting from scratch, I would build a 3-4 team as I beleive it gives you more versatility in disguising your defense. It also gives you more options on how to execute your defense as you generally have more versatile players.

 

[YosemiteSam]

If we were in the 4-3 right now, Ferguson, Spears, and Glover (we'd have kept him) at DT, along with Ellis, Ware, Canty at DE....and Ratliff and Hatcher as more depth....wow...would be an incredible front 4.

At LB, we'd have Brady in the middle and Burnett and Ayodele on the outside, with CArpenter as depth...not to mention I'm sure we may have added some other outside guys by now.

The problem is Spears (298lbs), Canty (300lbs), Coleman (295lbs), and Hatcher (295lbs) are to large to play 4-3 defensive end. 4-3 Defensive ends usually run about 260lbs to 280lbs. Those guys would be closer to being defensive tackles in a 4-3. You need power and speed to be a 4-3 DE. Those guys are strong but lack the outside speed. Ware on the otherhand could actually play DE in a 4-3 (which I didn't expect he could) he would just need to get stronger. He is exactly were he should be now.

 

[Crown Royal]

I prefer the college 5-2.

 

[CowboyChris]

i prefer the 3-4, i would want a more experienced 3-4 defensive cordinator though, i would like to see more exotic blitzes out of our current 3-4, i dont see us getting that much more pressure on the QB than what we had as a 4-3. which is kinda sad with all the upgraded talent on the D.

 

[PullMyFinger]

4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, did I say the 4-3 defense? It was created by Landry for Petes sake, I think it blasphemy to play anything else.

 

[Stautner]

The cowboys have always been a 4-3 defense. Which is why I wasnt' comfortable at the beginning of last season. But after more than a year under our belts I can honestly say I love the 3-4. I think it's better. I like all the talent, speed, depth, strength, and youth we have on our defense. I hope we never go back to the 4-3. Thats just my opinion. What do the rest of you think?

My main comment about this is that you haven't indicated anything that makes the 3-4 better than the 4-3 .......talent, depth and speed are player traits - not defensive scheme traits.

I know some will jump on me for that comment, but the fact is talented players are talented players - talent, depth and speed aren't exclusive to the 3-4.

That said, traits like speed are distributed a little differently in the two schemes. In the 4-3 the DE's need the speed and quickness to rush the QB, whereas in the 3-4 the DE's need size and bulk to occupy O-linemen while the OLB's are the primary pass rushers.

In general, the LB's need to be bigger in the 3-4, but you lose a little overall size in that there is only one interior lineman instead of 2.

Bottom line is that size, speed and talent are what you are looking for - regardless of scheme.

As for which I like better, it's really a function of the talent. I definitely like our 3-4 now better than our 4-3 2 years ago, but how much of that is due to the scheme change and how much is due to better talent is hard to say.

I know I liked the 4-3 we ran in the early/mid 1990's better than our 3-4 now, but again that may have more to do with talent differences than the scheme.

 

[theogt]

Obviously the 3-4 is easier to supply with players. In two years we went from a mediocre 4-3 (don't even mention that 2003 defense) to a dominant 3-4 that is stocked for years to come with extremely athletic young players.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I prefer the 3-4. I think it's easier to find guys in the front seven. The trouble spots are finding NG's and SS. But even SS you can usually find a small, fast college LB who can eventually make the transition (i.e. Michael Boulware).

4-3 is too plain for my tastes and a lot of 4-3 schemes go with speed and sacrifice size to get it. Thus, those teams usually wear down rather easily, which I hate seeing.

But it doesn't really matter. I'm not a big fan of the Cover 2, but Lovie Smith certainly knows how to scout players and teach them his system better than just about any of the 3-4 coaches coaching the 3-4 defense right now.


YAKUZA

 

[joseephuss]

I still prefer the 4-3 when you have the right personnel. It doesn't matter which defense you run if you don't have good players, and we didn't.

If we were in the 4-3 right now, Ferguson, Spears, and Glover (we'd have kept him) at DT, along with Ellis, Ware, Canty at DE....and Ratliff and Hatcher as more depth....wow...would be an incredible front 4.

At LB, we'd have Brady in the middle and Burnett and Ayodele on the outside, with CArpenter as depth...not to mention I'm sure we may have added some other outside guys by now.

I prefer two pass rushing DE's in the 4-3 to 3 non rushing linemen and 1 LB with pass rushing skills.

Anyhow, I'm very happy with our defense, but it's because we're putting better players out there, not because we're playing the superior scheme. There's a reason more teams still play the 4-3, and it's not because they are stupid.

Verry good stuff.

Is it really easier to get personnel for the 3-4? Then why don't more and more teams go to that defense? I think it works partly in cycles, partly some of the copy cat mentality and partly comfort. I see Ware capable of being a good 4-3 DE. Better than a Carver, Ekuban or Wiley. His 3-4 OLB spot is probably the best spot for him, but he is a good player who is versatile and that is what makes him valuable.

I am a 4-3 guy, but in the end I don't really care as long as Dallas puts talent on the field. I like the talent that has been added to the defenisve side of the ball. I don't think that talent has come close to reaching its full potential and is still getting better.

 

[Stautner]

Verry good stuff.

Is it really easier to get personnel for the 3-4? Then why don't more and more teams go to that defense? I think it works partly in cycles, partly some of the copy cat mentality and partly comfort. I see Ware capable of being a good 4-3 DE. Better than a Carver, Ekuban or Wiley. His 3-4 OLB spot is probably the best spot for him, but he is a good player who is versatile and that is what makes him valuable.

I am a 4-3 guy, but in the end I don't really care as long as Dallas puts talent on the field. I like the talent that has been added to the defenisve side of the ball. I don't think that talent has come close to reaching its full potential and is still getting better.

The notion that 3-4 players are easier to find mystifies me a bit too. I can understand that DE is a tough position to fill in the 4-3 because they have to be big and strong enough to hold their own against bigger OT's on the line of scrimmage, yet fast and quick enough to rush the QB. On the other hand, is it really that easy to find 3-4 OLB's who have the right combination of size, speed, strength and quickness to rush the QB and who are still capable of dropping back in coverage?

 

[joseephuss]

The notion that 3-4 players are easier to find mystifies me a bit too. I can understand that DE is a tough position to fill in the 4-3 because they have to be big and strong enough to hold their own against bigger OT's on the line of scrimmage, yet fast and quick enough to rush the QB. On the other hand, is it really that easy to find 3-4 OLB's who have the right combination of size, speed, strength and quickness to rush the QB and who are still capable of dropping back in coverage?

Exactly. It may be easier now only because the majority of teams play the 4-3. If more teams played the 3-4, then it would be easier to find the 4-3 DEs. It is just tough to find the players at the critical positions in general. QB, left tackle, RB, Pass rusher(DE or OLB) and CB are all spots that many teams have a tough time of filling.

 

[wileedog]

The notion that 3-4 players are easier to find mystifies me a bit too. I can understand that DE is a tough position to fill in the 4-3 because they have to be big and strong enough to hold their own against bigger OT's on the line of scrimmage, yet fast and quick enough to rush the QB. On the other hand, is it really that easy to find 3-4 OLB's who have the right combination of size, speed, strength and quickness to rush the QB and who are still capable of dropping back in coverage?

Yes, because there is a large supply of "tweeners" that come out of college, guys who are athletic and productive at that level, but too small to be an NFL 4-3 DE.

The Pats LB crew who won the trophies were all converted college DEs.

 

[peplaw06]

The notion that 3-4 players are easier to find mystifies me a bit too. I can understand that DE is a tough position to fill in the 4-3 because they have to be big and strong enough to hold their own against bigger OT's on the line of scrimmage, yet fast and quick enough to rush the QB. On the other hand, is it really that easy to find 3-4 OLB's who have the right combination of size, speed, strength and quickness to rush the QB and who are still capable of dropping back in coverage?

When many of those 4-3 DEs who can't "hold their own against bigger OT's" can make the move to OLBs (assuming they have the speed).... then I say it's easier to fill 3-4 OLB than 4-3 DE.

There are a lot of DEs from college every year who are undersized for the NFL 4-3 DE.

 

[wileedog]

Exactly. It may be easier now only because the majority of teams play the 4-3. If more teams played the 3-4, then it would be easier to find the 4-3 DEs.

Not necessarily. There are still only 1 or 2 premium 4-3 pass rushers that come out of every draft and they are snapped up quickly. Heck, Mario Williams went #1 this year.

Its simply a hard position to find, whether 26 teams are looking for them or 12.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I don't think it matters. if you have the right personnel for each then youa re going to be successful. so is panthers D any better than the one in New England or Pittsburgh?

the one problem with 4-3 defense is you have to have two good DE with one being great for it to be effective. It all revolves around the DEs being able to pressure the QB and demand double teams in order to make it work. If your DEs are average and below average you will have a vanilla defense and have to disguise your schemes to seem like and effective defense. Tampa, Panthers, NYG, Philly all run a very effective 4-3 because of Rice, Strahan & Osi, Kearse, Peppers.

its hard to predict and draft effective DEs for the 4-3. many top first rounders have failed just as many as succeeded. Our own Ellis included in the average to above average group.

on the other hand its easier to find LBs to play the 3-4 and find DEs and DTs for the 3-4 since the DEs and DTs aren't required to be as athletic and they mostly are used to occupy blockers to allow the LBs to flow to the ball. if you do get an athletic DE like Seymore then you are that much better off.

its also easier to move LBs around and disguise scheme s and coverage and attack the QB from different angles in a 3-4. the back 4 is pretty much the same for both.

I didn't have a problem with moving from a 4-3 to a 3-4 since we had failed in finding an effective DE for years and in the past few years there hasn't been any sure fire 4-3 DE to draft as evident from the results. it meant we had a few pieces that didn't fit that we had to replace but they were coming any way, like replacing Coackly and Dat. Those two needed to be replaced anyway.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I still prefer the 4-3 when you have the right personnel. It doesn't matter which defense you run if you don't have good players, and we didn't.

If we were in the 4-3 right now, Ferguson, Spears, and Glover (we'd have kept him) at DT, along with Ellis, Ware, Canty at DE....and Ratliff and Hatcher as more depth....wow...would be an incredible front 4.

but none of the above was a great pass rushing DE.

maybe ware but he would be an undersized DE.....

At LB, we'd have Brady in the middle and Burnett and Ayodele on the outside, with CArpenter as depth...not to mention I'm sure we may have added some other outside guys by now.

I prefer two pass rushing DE's in the 4-3 to 3 non rushing linemen and 1 LB with pass rushing skills.

Anyhow, I'm very happy with our defense, but it's because we're putting better players out there, not because we're playing the superior scheme. There's a reason more teams still play the 4-3, and it's not because they are stupid.