3-4 vs 4-3

[Spontae]

Maybe we should try the 5-2.............it worked in high school

The 5-2 is the 3-4, just the names change. In high school, our OLBs were called DEs, our DEs were called tackles and our nose tackle was called a nose guard. Same scheme, different names.

 

[Doomsday]

They actaully ran some 4-3 against NO when there were obvious passing downs and they still couldnt get any type of pressure. Seemed like the few times they did get close someone was wide open and Brees got rid of the ball before they could get to him.

Like San Diego Dallas has different players rushing the quarterback, its just hard to notice becuase outside of Ware they all suck at it. Burnett got stoned at the LOS a few times when Brees had 12 seconds or more to throw the ball. Burnett, Akin, James and Singleton are all worthless when it comes to rushing the passer. Comparing the Boys pass rush to San Diego's is piontless they have a better front 7 then Dallas.

 

[Doomsday101]

They actaully some 4-3 against NO when there was obvious passing downs and they still couldnt get any type of pressure. Seemed like the few times they did get close someone was wide open and Brees got rid of the ball before they could get to him.

Not hard to do when you just dumping it off and allowing the mis-match with RB on LB. 14 passes went to the RB's, Saints were inviting the pass rush in and would just dump to the outside.

 

[SultanOfSix]

We play the 3-4 likes it the 4-3. We have the same exact guys rushing the passer on every play! Its essentially the 4-3... we just have 1 guy (Ware) standing up.

Watch the Chargers... they have different guys rushing the passer on EVERY PLAY! We do the exact opposite.

Exactly. We play a ******** 3-4.

I've never seen a team use less of the "threat (or disguise) of the blitz" than the Cowboys. Come to the line sometimes and pretend you're blitzing in a standard formation every once in a while, but drop back in coverage so the QB is confused as to when the blitz may come. Rush someone else through the gap than the standard. Mix it up sometimes. I think we're the only team in the league that the opposing team knows how to block even when we blitz because they know exactly where its coming from everytime.

 

[Haley94]

We play the 3-4 likes it the 4-3. We have the same exact guys rushing the passer on every play! Its essentially the 4-3... we just have 1 guy (Ware) standing up.

Watch the Chargers... they have different guys rushing the passer on EVERY PLAY! We do the exact opposite.

Not entirely true. A 4-3 is a one gap scheme. The responsibility of the D-linemen is to control the gap between the offensive lineman. The 3-4 (2-gap) is to control the both gaps on wither side of the o-linmen, essential to control the man in front of you. That is why we get almost no penetration off the ball and why you'll see Ware head right towards the man who is suppose to be blocking him (if he has outside contain). I played end in a 3-4 in HS, I used to get chewed out if I shot the gap even if I made the play.

Also this is why we run almost no stunts on the d line. many 4-3 team get their pressure from the stunts.

I agree that the Chargers scheme is better.This's why Parcells misses Bellcheck. We are way to vanilla for my taste. Parcells could get away with this in NY because he had the best pass rushing linebacker that ever played the game. LT was the emotional fireplug of that team. We need a psycho somewhere in that front seven, if we are going to run a straight 3-4.

Personally I think Kacy Rodgers should go. I don't think he ever coached a two gap before the Cowboys.

 

[Haley94]

Exactly. We play a ******** 3-4.

I've never seen a team use less of the "threat (or disguise) of the blitz" than the Cowboys. Come to the line sometimes and pretend you're blitzing in a standard formation every once in a while, but drop back in coverage so the QB is confused as to when the blitz may come. Rush someone else through the gap than the standard. Mix it up sometimes. I think we're the only team in the league that the opposing team knows how to block even when we blitz because they know exactly where its coming from everytime.

They did a lot of that against Indy. It worked.

 

[Haley94]

Not hard to do when you just dumping it off and allowing the mis-match with RB on LB. 14 passes went to the RB's, Saints were inviting the pass rush in and would just dump to the outside.

Good point. I would have like to see Ware get in There once and smack Brees silly. Take the 15 yards but set a tone. I love Ware, but he is too nice. He needs to catch his wife cheating on him or something.

 

[TEK2000]

Not entirely true. A 4-3 is a one gap scheme. The responsibility of the D-linemen is to control the gap between the offensive lineman. The 3-4 (2-gap) is to control the both gaps on wither side of the o-linmen, essential to control the man in front of you. That is why we get almost no penetration off the ball and why you'll see Ware head right towards the man who is suppose to be blocking him (if he has outside contain). I played end in a 3-4 in HS, I used to get chewed out if I shot the gap even if I made the play.

Also this is why we run almost no stunts on the d line. many 4-3 team get their pressure from the stunts.

I agree that the Chargers scheme is better.This's why Parcells misses Bellcheck. We are way to vanilla for my taste. Parcells could get away with this in NY because he had the best pass rushing linebacker that ever played the game. LT was the emotional fireplug of that team. We need a psycho somewhere in that front seven, if we are going to run a straight 3-4.

Personally I think Kacy Rodgers should go. I don't think he ever coached a two gap before the Cowboys.

I was speaking in terms of our pass rush design. The DLine is playing the 2 gap system versus the run and QB containment, but on the pass rush, you're obviously trying to beat your man and surprise the offensive line with where the rush is coming from.

 

[Haley94]

I was speaking in terms of our pass rush design. The DLine is playing the 2 gap system versus the run and QB containment, but on the pass rush, you're obviously trying to beat your man and surprise the offensive line with where the rush is coming from.

That is if you know it's a pass. The thing i noticed, is our dline is taught to watch the run first. In a 3-4 this mean controlling the guy in front of you. Our guys can't seem to get off the olinemen once engaged.

 

[TEK2000]

That is if you know it's a pass. The thing i notice is that our dline is taught to watch the run first. In a 3-4 this mean controlling the guy in front of you. Our guys can't seem to get off the olinemen once engaged.

Good point! That's something that I have noticed as well. Its also something BP mentioned... that they take a little too long to switch from run defense to pass rush.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

I think the key here is to use both schemes and mix it up a bit. Base can be 34 or 43, I don't care. However, we have personnel to run both with very little substitution. I think that we need to look at running a combination a bit more. The NFL is about creating miss matches. This is one way of doing that.

To be honest, it really surprises me that we haven't done more of this already. You look at our personnel and Canty is a natural LDE in a 43. Ferguson has been a better 1/2 technique DT then NT. Spears has played both LDE in a 34 and 3 Technique while at LSU. Ware can slide to RDE or play Rush LB on either side in a blitz situation. Singleton or Ayodele can play OLB. Ayodele or James can play MLB. Heck, you could probably even slide Roy down to play Will and bring in Glenn to play at FS. Davis plays a much better Strong then Free. I know it's not as easy has having a guy line up and play but most of these guys have good experience in a 43 scheme. Seems as if it would be a natural thing to do.

Who knows, maybe if we're lucky enough to get to the playoffs, we will end up doing this against one of those teams.

I'd propose that Ware's strongest position in a 4-3 may actually be MLB. I think he'd be flat out dominant with the ability to blitz over interior linemen, who are often inferior pass protectors to tackles, on a shorter route to the QB.

Plus they couldn't run away from him and he'd have some protection playing behind two DTs.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'd propose that Ware's strongest position in a 4-3 may actually be MLB. I think he'd be flat out dominant with the ability to blitz over interior linemen, who are often inferior pass protectors to tackles, on a shorter route to the QB.

Plus they couldn't run away from him and he'd have some protection playing behind two DTs.

I don't know. To play MLB in a 43, you gotta be able to call out the signals. A lot depends on what the MLB calls in that defense. I don't know if Ware is capable of doing that. Physically, I think Ware could probably play just about anywhere and be good. He's just that kind of athlete. The other part of being a MLB in a 43 is attitude. You gotta want to rip the ball carriers head off. You gotta be a Ray Nitschke. I don't know if Ware has that in him. Would be interesting to see though.