3 Padded Practices

[ringmaster]

Todays NFL. That's why I dismiss some of these records of todays football players (except for DeMarco of course .... I don't care what kind of rules you institute, what he's doing is epic).

Again, having a debate with my co-worker this morning about Drew Brees and his 5,000 plus yards, etc. etc. I'm probably the only one on the planet who is not impressed with that record. You can't even breath on a QB today.

Let's not talk about what the receivers had to deal with back in the day. These QBs and Receivers of today could not survive or thrive in the NFL of the 70s, 80s & 90s. I could name a handful that could. Let's begin with 9, 82, & 88

I just love your posts Sportsbabe learn something very informative everytime I read them.

 

[AbeBeta]

Full contact in practice during the season is over rated. By this time, pretty much everyone who's played in games is banged up and sore. What you need during the week are reps and installing your game plan. That can be done without contact.
.

My bet is that the full padded practices are used more for getting some live action for PS guys and backups. I don't think you want to expose top players to extra action given that a playoff team might play 24 total games in a season. That's already enough opportunity to get hurt.

 

[ringmaster]

Ok first off let me say forgive me for my ignorance of this, and if this is common knowledge to most of you fine folks but I didn't know this.

Listening to Talking Cowboys today Broddus mentioned that the Cowboys, due to the collective bargaining agreement, only have 3 more full padded practices that they can do the for the rest of the season.

WTH?

Is that really true? We're only halfway through the regular season and we have 3 full pad practices that are allowed the remainder of the year?

That's got to be the dumbest crap I've ever heard.

That is why you see alot of missed tackles in today's NFL and it's not just a Cowboys problem as we saw Monday night against the Skins it's a league wide problem and you can thank commissioner GODdell for this crap there will never be a dominant defense in the NFL again.

 

[ringmaster]

My bet is that the full padded practices are used more for getting some live action for PS guys and backups. I don't think you want to expose top players to extra action given that a playoff team might play 24 total games in a season. That's already enough opportunity to get hurt.

I see where you're coming from as to wanting to protect their top investment players but this is football and players are going to get hurt and some are going to play hurt as well that just the way it is.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

In the cap era, I don't know if you can adopt this kind of outlook any longer. I think you have to manage with an eye on investment.

 

[mrmojo]

An old article in 2011 I came across:


Jimmy Johnson on Pads in Practices


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As Jimmy Johnson has watched his former team from afar, he has admired the approach Cowboys coach Jason Garrett has taken to improve the team's preparation. Reintroducing full-pad practices on Wednesdays was one of Garrett's first initiatives, which Johnson praised and said should continue next season.

"I believe being a little more physical in training camp will help," added Johnson, who coached Garrett when the former quarterback joined the Cowboys in 1992. "I think if you practice in sweats, you get sloppy."

Johnson said the benefits from absorbing contact are tangible, pointing to the fact that players who practice in more adverse conditions tend to be more sound fundamentally, exhibit a heightened level of aggressiveness and execute better in the game.

"We practiced in pads Wednesdays and Thursdays and were in shoulder pads on Fridays," he said. "I was rigid on my deal."

And the payoff was tremendous. With Johnson in command, the Cowboys laid the foundation for a dynasty that yielded three Super Bowl victories in four seasons.

 

[Sportsbabe]

I just love your posts Sportsbabe learn something very informative everytime I read them.

Thank you so much. I love the game and the history of the NFL.

 

[AbeBeta]

I see where you're coming from as to wanting to protect their top investment players but this is football and players are going to get hurt and some are going to play hurt as well that just the way it is.

Yes. This is football. And we've seen over and over that you really don't need much padded work in season to play well. The quality of play in the NFL has not diminished due to a reduction in the # of padded practices. It is a better product and a heck of a lot more fun to watch with the best players out there.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Yes. This is football. And we've seen over and over that you really don't need much padded work in season to play well. The quality of play in the NFL has not diminished due to a reduction in the # of padded practices. It is a better product and a heck of a lot more fun to watch with the best players out there.

I disagree completely.

I don't know that I'd say it's bad or anything like that but defenses certainly are no where near as good. That's a combination of the lack of practice (Thus lots more missed tackles, poor angles, etc) and rules designed to make the game more about offense. That's due mostly to the stupid fantasy football catering.

Now don't get me wrong I like my fantasy football but the rules and stuff don't need to cater to trying to make it more offensive.

And I absolutely do not believe, at all, that the lack of practice helps prevent injures. If anything its more likely to lead to more nagging and stupid injures because a body simply can not condition to play football in any other way then playing football.

Taking the padded practices away does not improve that it hinders it.

 

[Hook'em#11]

Full contact in practice during the season is over rated. By this time, pretty much everyone who's played in games is banged up and sore. What you need during the week are reps and installing your game plan. That can be done without contact.

If you're looking to teach your guys how to tackle (the basics) at this point in the season...well, your guys are probably not that good. And you don't loose the ability or know how on how to tackle just because you don't do it during the week.

Hey, I've said in another thread I think this is still a below average defense. And it will, and does show. But I also think sometimes you just have a bad game. As much as I'd like to back up my point and jump all over how awful this defense was, for the most part, it played very average. It just didn't play over its head as it has been doing at various points throughout the year up to this point.

So expect more of the same. Unless our new roster additions bring some game.

The offense (Romo) has to play better than he did on Monday. End of story.

I was really talking about the NFL in general but, okay..

I agree with basically nothing you typed..

The WHOLE team needs to play better and Dallas's Defense is average, at least.

 

[Sportsbabe]

I disagree completely.

I don't know that I'd say it's bad or anything like that but defenses certainly are no where near as good. That's a combination of the lack of practice (Thus lots more missed tackles, poor angles, etc) and rules designed to make the game more about offense. That's due mostly to the stupid fantasy football catering.

Now don't get me wrong I like my fantasy football but the rules and stuff don't need to cater to trying to make it more offensive.

And I absolutely do not believe, at all, that the lack of practice helps prevent injures. If anything its more likely to lead to more nagging and stupid injures because a body simply can not condition to play football in any other way then playing football.

Taking the padded practices away does not improve that it hinders it.

I Agree 100%

 

[jazzcat22]

Todays NFL. That's why I dismiss some of these records of todays football players (except for DeMarco of course .... I don't care what kind of rules you institute, what he's doing is epic).

Again, having a debate with my co-worker this morning about Drew Brees and his 5,000 plus yards, etc. etc. I'm probably the only one on the planet who is not impressed with that record. You can't even breath on a QB today.

Let's not talk about what the receivers had to deal with back in the day. These QBs and Receivers of today could not survive or thrive in the NFL of the 70s, 80s & 90s. I could name a handful that could. Let's begin with 9, 82, & 88

Unless you are a QB in a Dallas Cowboys uniform....then all rules do not apply...

 

[BlindFaith]

I disagree completely.

I don't know that I'd say it's bad or anything like that but defenses certainly are no where near as good. That's a combination of the lack of practice (Thus lots more missed tackles, poor angles, etc) and rules designed to make the game more about offense. That's due mostly to the stupid fantasy football catering.

Now don't get me wrong I like my fantasy football but the rules and stuff don't need to cater to trying to make it more offensive.

And I absolutely do not believe, at all, that the lack of practice helps prevent injures. If anything its more likely to lead to more nagging and stupid injures because a body simply can not condition to play football in any other way then playing football.

Taking the padded practices away does not improve that it hinders it.

Have you played football? Let alone at a level when you have the best, biggest, strongest guys in the world beating on you for once a week during a game?

I played at a college level, a running back. And believe me, as much as I loved playing football, the last thing I really wanted to be doing during the week was running live against a scout team of practice warriors trying to get some hits in. I was more concerned about looking at film, seeing what the other teams defense was trying to do. Who we had to focus on, and then implementing any adjustments that needed to be made. Running in full pads was NOT necessary. You can still run full speed, just without contact.

I do agree that contact is necessary in the preseason/training camp. You do need to get your body ready to play. But adding in a full pad practice between games does very little. And the risk of injury is higher. We lost Lee in practice.

 

[AsthmaField]

I disagree completely.

I don't know that I'd say it's bad or anything like that but defenses certainly are no where near as good. That's a combination of the lack of practice (Thus lots more missed tackles, poor angles, etc) and rules designed to make the game more about offense. That's due mostly to the stupid fantasy football catering.

Now don't get me wrong I like my fantasy football but the rules and stuff don't need to cater to trying to make it more offensive.

And I absolutely do not believe, at all, that the lack of practice helps prevent injures. If anything its more likely to lead to more nagging and stupid injures because a body simply can not condition to play football in any other way then playing football.

Taking the padded practices away does not improve that it hinders it.

Well, I don't necessarily disagree with what you said here but Bruce Carter did break his finger in this weeks padded practice, which probably doesn't happen if they're just wearing sweats.

However, like you said, getting used to the contact could help prevent game day injuries, so it might be a wash anyway.

In any event, this is what we have now, so we might as well go with it.

 

[BlindFaith]

That is why you see alot of missed tackles in today's NFL and it's not just a Cowboys problem as we saw Monday night against the Skins it's a league wide problem and you can thank commissioner GODdell for this crap there will never be a dominant defense in the NFL again.

Missed tackle numbers have actually been dropping the last three years according to this:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2012/broken-tackles-2011-part-ii
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/broken-tackles-2012-defense
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/2013-broken-tackles-defense

And there have always been missed tackles. And where was all this angst a couple of weeks ago when everyone thought this defense was on the brink of being dominant? So our guys just forgot how to tackle last week? Come on.

I think it had much more to do with our guys not being that awesome to begin with, playing over their heads, and maybe a little of underestimating the Commanders.

 

[ringmaster]

Missed tackle numbers have actually been dropping the last three years according to this:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2012/broken-tackles-2011-part-ii
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/broken-tackles-2012-defense
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/2013-broken-tackles-defense

And there have always been missed tackles. And where was all this angst a couple of weeks ago when everyone thought this defense was on the brink of being dominant? So our guys just forgot how to tackle last week? Come on.

I think it had much more to do with our guys not being that awesome to begin with, playing over their heads, and maybe a little of underestimating the Commanders.

I don't think for one second that this team underestimated the Commanders if anything imo it was the coaching staff's overconfidence in the OL playing the way they've been over the course of the six game winning streak by not allowing many pass rushers getting towards Tony.

As for the defense they played above average but at the same time missed many tackles that they also made during that six game winning streak I just chalk it up as the team having a bad night both offensively and defensively as for the padded practices we can agree to disagree if you honestly think that it doesn't take practice to be an efficient tackling defense then you are deluding yourself regardless of how many stats you pull up to support such a claim that missed tackles has decreased since the league cut padded practices in half.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Have you played football? Let alone at a level when you have the best, biggest, strongest guys in the world beating on you for once a week during a game?

I played at a college level, a running back. And believe me, as much as I loved playing football, the last thing I really wanted to be doing during the week was running live against a scout team of practice warriors trying to get some hits in. I was more concerned about looking at film, seeing what the other teams defense was trying to do. Who we had to focus on, and then implementing any adjustments that needed to be made. Running in full pads was NOT necessary. You can still run full speed, just without contact.

I do agree that contact is necessary in the preseason/training camp. You do need to get your body ready to play. But adding in a full pad practice between games does very little. And the risk of injury is higher. We lost Lee in practice.

Yeah. I did.

And that's how I personally know your body does not get ready for, or in playing shape, for football in any other way.

You can't run enough to be in football shape. You cant lift enough to be in football shape.

You only get in football shape, which includes being able to take the beating to the best of your abilities, by actually playing it.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Well, I don't necessarily disagree with what you said here but Bruce Carter did break his finger in this weeks padded practice, which probably doesn't happen if they're just wearing sweats.

However, like you said, getting used to the contact could help prevent game day injuries, so it might be a wash anyway.

In any event, this is what we have now, so we might as well go with it.

Absolutely true.

 

[AbeBeta]

I disagree completely.

I don't know that I'd say it's bad or anything like that but defenses certainly are no where near as good. That's a combination of the lack of practice (Thus lots more missed tackles, poor angles, etc) and rules designed to make the game more about offense. That's due mostly to the stupid fantasy football catering.

Now don't get me wrong I like my fantasy football but the rules and stuff don't need to cater to trying to make it more offensive.

And I absolutely do not believe, at all, that the lack of practice helps prevent injures. If anything its more likely to lead to more nagging and stupid injures because a body simply can not condition to play football in any other way then playing football.

Taking the padded practices away does not improve that it hinders it.

Whereas your point about being less prepared is reasonable (although I can't imagine how with 20 games, you don't get enough "live" action in), the idea that practicing more with pads and hitting prevents injuries is ridiculous. There really is no way to legitimately claim that more contact means less injury. This is like suggesting that boxers should spar without any additional padding to get them used to being hit.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Whereas your point about being less prepared is reasonable (although I can't imagine how with 20 games, you don't get enough "live" action in), the idea that practicing more with pads and hitting prevents injuries is ridiculous. There really is no way to legitimately claim that more contact means less injury. This is like suggesting that boxers should spar without any additional padding to get them used to being hit.

I understand that and maybe I'm not communicating myself clearly here and it looks like that.

You can't prevent serious injuries. Those simply are going to happen and there is nothing you can do about that.

However you absolutely can condition your body to be less likely, you can't completely remove them, from taking on as many nagging and smaller injuries.

For example like with MMA. You don't just jump into a cage to fight people, even if you're tried in martial arts, and take body blows for 5 rounds and withstand them. Those guys condition their bodies to take those blows through physical practice. If they didn't do those they'd walk in there and get destroyed by that stuff.

The same goes for the physical nature of football.