4-3 Weakside Defensive End List

[ABQCOWBOY]

One thing that I think you have to consider, with Lawrence, is that Boise St. did not play a very good schedule this year.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

What is the deal on Trevor Reilly from Utah?

Really have not heard much or read much about him.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

It's not necessarily speed over strength but the combination of speed, strength and length. You have to set the edge, play the run and be able to rush the passer. I'm not big on 6'3 250 guys doing this on a full time basis in a base 4-3, however their pass rushing can make up for it, if it's elite speed. Barr is the guy, Ford and Attatochu maybe that guy, but they're probably better off in a 3-4 OLB spot. They may also be used as rotational pass russ specialists.

True 4-3 DE's guys missing from the list with enough speed to play the weak side:

Kareem Martin 6'6 270 4.7 forty 35 inch arms
Aaron Lynch 6'6 260 4.6 forty 34 1/2 inch arms

I dunno... Martin... weak-side... maybe... maybe not.

Lynch... kid seems to have some issues, if I'm going to take a flyer on someone later on in the draft it would be one of the other guys on the list.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

What is the deal on Trevor Reilly from Utah?

Really have not heard much or read much about him.

Ourlads says about him, "More of a try-hard blue collar worker than an athletic pass rusher".

 

[xwalker]

What is the deal on Trevor Reilly from Utah?

Really have not heard much or read much about him.

Here are my notes from studying game footage of the DEs:

Lanky with good athleticism but just doesn't look like an NFL pass rusher. Maybe as a 3-4 OLB but does not play with the power/leverage of a DE. I saw an analysis that called him a finesse player which seems like a good description.

 

[DoctorChicken]

Why do you say this?

He looked very raw. He had a lot of trouble getting off of blocks, and he isn't quite big enough to be a DE imo. He needs a lot of refining.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He looked very raw. He had a lot of trouble getting off of blocks, and he isn't quite big enough to be a DE imo. He needs a lot of refining.

In a 43, he is big enough. I think that if you watched him early in the year, you might be able to see some of these things but if you watched him at about the half way point on, not so much. Coming of injury, he was not as fluid early on but later, he was much, much better. His production was off the charts.

 

[Woods]

It's not necessarily speed over strength but the combination of speed, strength and length. You have to set the edge, play the run and be able to rush the passer. I'm not big on 6'3 250 guys doing this on a full time basis in a base 4-3, however their pass rushing can make up for it, if it's elite speed. Barr is the guy, Ford and Attatochu maybe that guy, but they're probably better off in a 3-4 OLB spot. They may also be used as rotational pass russ specialists.

True 4-3 DE's guys missing from the list with enough speed to play the weak side:

Kareem Martin 6'6 270 4.7 forty 35 inch arms
Aaron Lynch 6'6 260 4.6 forty 34 1/2 inch arms

I think that K Martin seems to get overlooked a bit. He does have the necessary length, size, arm length and raw speed. I guess the knock on him is that he didn't really put up the stats until this last year. I think he'd be an interesting 2nd round pick.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I think that K Martin seems to get overlooked a bit. He does have the necessary length, size, arm length and raw speed. I guess the knock on him is that he didn't really put up the stats until this last year. I think he'd be an interesting 2nd round pick.

I gotta say he is an interesting prospect. If the Cowboys were looking at for a strong-side DE I'd say he was a lock. On the weakside... I'm not sure he's quick enough. But maybe he is.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

In the 10-yard dash event at the combine there was only 1 guy who had a better time than Clowney...


And that was Larry Webster. He needs to get stronger and learn the position but he has the size and the speed. If he's there in round 5...

 

[Risen Star]

Good job. This is a very weak draft for WDE.

I don't remember the last strong one.

 

[JPostSam]

This is a very weak draft for WDE.

indeed. also, 1-techniques. (seems like all the DTs are described as 3-techniques.)

unfortunately, those are our biggest needs.

i'm hoping for some kind of coup.

 

[Brooksey]

I gotta say he is an interesting prospect. If the Cowboys were looking at for a strong-side DE I'd say he was a lock. On the weakside... I'm not sure he's quick enough. But maybe he is.

Well he ran a 4.7 forty and a 1.53 in the 10 yd at the combine and he backed it up at his pro-day. That's a faster 10 yd than anyone on your list. This is a hand in the dirt, fast first step, behemoth of a guy. He has comparable if not better size and speed than Clowney (without the 40 time) and we're bringing him in for a visit. He's built very similar to JPP but he's a little more athletic. JPP ran his 10 yd in 1.65 and his vertical was 30.5 Kareem Martin tested much better that and is coming off a very hot second half of his senior year. Check out some comparisons below.

Clown 6'5 265 34.5" 40 4.5 10 yd 1.56 3-Cone 7.27 Vertical 37.5 Broad 124
KMack 6'3 250 33.5" 40 4.5 10 yd 1.53 3 Cone 7.08 Vertical 40.0 Broad 128
A.Barr 6'5 255 33.5" 40 4.6 10 yd 1.56 3-Cone 6.82 Vertical 34.5 Broad 119
K.Mart 6'6 270 35.0" 40 4.7 10 yd 1.53 3-Cone 7.20 Vertical 35.5 Broad 129
DFord 6'2 250 33.5" 40 4.5 10 yd 1.67 3-Cone 7.07 Vertical 35.5 Broad 124
Attaoc 6'3 250 33.0" 40 4.6 10 Yd 1.55 3-Cone 7.28 Vertical 37.5 Broad 123
L.Web 6'5 250 33.5" 40 4.6 10 yd 1.57 3-Cone 7.29 Vertical 36.5 Broad 123
D.Law 6'3 250 34.0" 40 4.7 10 yd 1.62 3-Cone 7.46 Vertical 34.5 Broad 113
J.Paul 6'5 270 34.5" 40 4.7 10 yd 1.65 3 Cone 7.18 Vertical 30.5, Broad 115

I don't see where speed is a problem. IMO, Martin is the best WDE prospect on the board after Clowney, Mack and Barr and that's only because Lynch has girlfriend/mental problems. Check the wingspan and stride man, this guy covers a lot of ground fast and is going to engulf people. With Melton and or Donald penetrating the middle you have to set the edge and I want length. I love Kareem in the Second Round.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Well he ran a 4.7 forty and a 1.53 in the 10 yd at the combine and he backed it up at his pro-day. That's a faster 10 yd than anyone on your list. This is a hand in the dirt, fast first step, behemoth of a guy. He has comparable if not better size and speed than Clowney (without the 40 time) and we're bringing him in for a visit. He's built very similar to JPP but he's a little more athletic. JPP ran his 10 yd in 1.65 and his vertical was 30.5 Kareem Martin tested much better that and is coming off a very hot second half of his senior year. Check out some comparisons below.

Clown 6'5 265 34.5" 40 4.5 10 yd 1.56 3-Cone 7.27 Vertical 37.5 Broad 124
KMack 6'3 250 33.5" 40 4.5 10 yd 1.53 3 Cone 7.08 Vertical 40.0 Broad 128
A.Barr 6'5 255 33.5" 40 4.6 10 yd 1.56 3-Cone 6.82 Vertical 34.5 Broad 119
K.Mart 6'6 270 35.0" 40 4.7 10 yd 1.53 3-Cone 7.20 Vertical 35.5 Broad 129
DFord 6'2 250 33.5" 40 4.5 10 yd 1.67 3-Cone 7.07 Vertical 35.5 Broad 124
Attaoc 6'3 250 33.0" 40 4.6 10 Yd 1.55 3-Cone 7.28 Vertical 37.5 Broad 123
L.Web 6'5 250 33.5" 40 4.6 10 yd 1.57 3-Cone 7.29 Vertical 36.5 Broad 123
D.Law 6'3 250 34.0" 40 4.7 10 yd 1.62 3-Cone 7.46 Vertical 34.5 Broad 113
J.Paul 6'5 270 34.5" 40 4.7 10 yd 1.65 3 Cone 7.18 Vertical 30.5, Broad 115

I don't see where speed is a problem. IMO, Martin is the best WDE prospect on the board after Clowney, Mack and Barr and that's only because Lynch has girlfriend/mental problems. Check the wingspan and stride man, this guy covers a lot of ground fast and is going to engulf people. With Melton and or Donald penetrating the middle you have to set the edge and I want length. I love Kareem in the Second Round.

Brooksey I've tried finding verification of the 1.53 split by Martin and the source information that I've found is kinda nebulous.

I emailed the folks at Ourlads, which list him at 1.66 for his split and since they were there, thought they could supply some supporting info.

Here's what the head guy at Ourlads emailed me...

"Michael, Kareem ran between a 1.67 & 1.64. He also recorded a pair of 1.66s. These are all official Combine times. No 1.53s I hope you win a bet. Dan"

 

[Brooksey]

"Michael, Kareem ran between a 1.67 & 1.64. He also recorded a pair of 1.66s. These are all official Combine times. No 1.53s I hope you win a bet. Dan"[/quote]

Lol, while I was typing he was starting to look like a top twenty pick with those times, I should have double checked. Anyway here is my link, http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/2/25/5441246/2014-nfl-combine-results-defensive-end-benchmarks. Feel free to post your link, I will stand corrected.

Either way he's an athletic DE who has tremendous upside.

I did a lot of work to get him on the list, so I hope you will still consider him.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

"Michael, Kareem ran between a 1.67 & 1.64. He also recorded a pair of 1.66s. These are all official Combine times. No 1.53s I hope you win a bet. Dan"

Lol, while I was typing he was starting to look like a top twenty pick with those times, I should have double checked. Anyway here is my link, http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/2/25/5441246/2014-nfl-combine-results-defensive-end-benchmarks. Feel free to post your link, I will stand corrected.

Either way he's an athletic DE who has tremendous upside.

I did a lot of work to get him on the list, so I hope you will still consider him. [/quote]

LOL!

I would consider the guy in round 2. He's still move for the size that he is.

I have found a couple times for the guy that have been various. But the 1.53 just didn't smell right too me because like you the more I thought about it the more it didn't look right because there would have been more made over it than what there has been.

So since I'm a Ourlads subscriber (have been since 1990) I just decided to email the head guy there and get his take since they were at the combine taking notes.

 

[Brooksey]

"Michael, Kareem ran between a 1.67 & 1.64. He also recorded a pair of 1.66s. These are all official Combine times. No 1.53s I hope you win a bet. Dan"

Can you email ourlads on the vertical and broad jump? Seems high too.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Can you email ourlads on the vertical and broad jump? Seems high too.

I'll do it in a day or two. I don't want to seem like a nut job! LOL!

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Can you email ourlads on the vertical and broad jump? Seems high too.

I would say that those are accurate because he was the 2nd ranked (out of 43 DL) at the combine when it came to overall physical tools, which is an in-house rating system that Ourlads uses, which does combine all the physical tests the players do at the combine into one neat little score. And for him to rate 2nd he had to have some very good results along the way.

Clowney was 1st overall.

 

[Brooksey]

I'll do it in a day or two. I don't want to seem like a nut job! LOL!

LOL, no problem.

There are quite a few on-line sources that have him running a 1.53 10 yard split, check it out...
http://BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1/combine2014stockDL.php
http://nfldraftgeek.com/kareemmartin_scoutingreport.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-nfl-outlook-for-north-carolina-defensive-end
http://www.deepfrieddraft.com/NFL_Scouting_Combine.html