53 underclassmen declare early for draft - why didn't we stock picks?

The Realist

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Texan_Eph89;3246432 said:
Eric Berry is about as close as anyone can get to the Ed Reed mold....
There are stud WR, Dez Bryant? just to name one.
The top is not any weaker than last year, most drafts are heavy in a few positions anyways....

Ed Reed went where? 25 ish.

Dez Bryant and this class vs others.....Fitzgerald, CJ, Andre Johnson.

This class is pretty weak at most positions except for DT and OT.
 

jterrell

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If I am second guessing I am going to use all that steam on the RW11 deal.

Give me those picks back and you can "stockpile" later picks all you want.

This team doesn't need a bunch of picks because the guys would never get a chance to prove anything. It's like last year's class where half of it was getting put off the roster somehow just due to numbers.


As mentioned above we should actually consider a trade up this year. Go get a blue chip type prospect and a couple more key guys but we don't need more than 4 or 5 roster spots filled from this draft at most. We have like 5 guys coming back from the last draft who were MIA.
 

jterrell

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The Realist;3246520 said:
Ed Reed went where? 25 ish.

Dez Bryant and this class vs others.....Fitzgerald, CJ, Andre Johnson.

This class is pretty weak at most positions except for DT and OT.

The Reed thing was a mess. Mot people thought he was actually very close in prospect stature to RW31. We grabbed RW and Reed fell a good, good ways.

Reed had been a coverage guy and ballhawk at Miami while RW was destroying teams at the line of scrimmage. We went for the mini-backer and at the time of the draft it wasn't a horrid call. Once they instituted rules to minimize big hits to the WRs it became an awful choice:(
 

tomson75

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jterrell;3246540 said:
If I am second guessing I am going to use all that steam on the RW11 deal.

Give me those picks back and you can "stockpile" later picks all you want.

This team doesn't need a bunch of picks because the guys would never get a chance to prove anything. It's like last year's class where half of it was getting put off the roster somehow just due to numbers.


As mentioned above we should actually consider a trade up this year. Go get a blue chip type prospect and a couple more key guys but we don't need more than 4 or 5 roster spots filled from this draft at most. We have like 5 guys coming back from the last draft who were MIA.

We don't have the picks to get any "blue chip" prospects. Our best bet is to go with the best value at whatever draft position we hold at the time. If that means staying put, we stay put. If that means moving up, we move up. If....well, you get the picture.

There is no set pattern,outside of following the value, that will be better than another IMO.
 

dbair1967

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igtmfo;3246056 said:
Is it too early for Cowboys front office/draft-bashing threads?

A record-tying 53 players declared for early entry today, story below.

OK, so we stockpiled draft picks before last April's draft for what we knew was a weak draft class (we ended up with 12 guys anyway). By stockpile, I mean two picks before the draft I can think of, the fourth rounder from the Lions (a deal swung in the previous draft) and a six pick for Ferguson (from Miami also swung in 2008).

But .. we apparently didn't try to trade any of our eventual 2009 dozen picks forward into 2010 for what would be a big year for underclassman because of the uncapped year blah blah blah ... Nobody I ever heard from the Boys said anything about trying to trade those picks in news conferences last April when you thought they would have said so ...

So, we only have six picks (at the moment) in a banner draft class..

Yet smart guys like Belichick managed to trade two third rounders last draft (plus change) for two second-round picks this year, an approach any wise draftnik on this board would have tried to do. ...

Just sayin' .... OK I will say it - IMO I'm afraid more Jerry short sightedness and snafu when it comes to draft day ...

It's a result of the Cowboys draft-day philosophy. Their philosophy is to let deals come to them in the war room rather than seek them out, "be buyers not sellers" (This is Jerry's philosophy he's spoken of, not something I'm making up) .. So Jerry, Stephen et al sit by the phone last April and wait for offers to come in to snatch one of their many picks, for a future deep-draft-year 2010 pick. And it never comes, because teams know 2010 is a deep class. At least we could have tried to prod some teams out of 2010 picks, something Belichick was able to do ...

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(AP) - The expected heavy influx of nonseniors applying for this year's NFL draft did not happen despite looming labour unrest in the league.

Although a record-tying 53 players declared for early entry, that number released yesterday by the NFL was short of projections. "I think that the colleges have really done a good job of telling these young men how it is to their advantage to stay in school," said NFL draft consultant Gil Brandt. With a potential rookie wage scale in the next collective bargaining agreement, more juniors were expected to declare.

Six All-Americans did apply: defensive backs Eric Berry of Tennessee and Joe Haden of Florida; defensive end Derrick Morgan of Georgia Tech; tight end Aaron Hernandez of Florida; linebacker Rolando McClain of Alabama; and wide receiver Golden Tate of Notre Dame. Mississippi QB Jevan Snead, Notre Dame QB Jimmy Clausen, Southern California running back Joe McKnight and Penn State linebacker Navorro Bowman also declared early for April's draft.

The 53 players match the previous high in 2008; last year, 46 declared. Brandt said: "If you are good enough, you will get it (the money) anyway. This way, you get to enjoy your senior year and get that diploma."

gotta whine about something I guess

:rolleyes:
 

JBond

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superpunk;3246455 said:
I have sarcastic remorse.

With all the "new" folks posting crazy stuff lately, I thought a little clarification was needed. Love your "never trust a hippie" slogan.
 

dallasfaniac

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I'm curious if the OP mentioned trading for future picks last year or if this is a 20/20 type of thing now that he read that 53 declared and 53 seems like a big number.
 

Randy White

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The Realist;3246073 said:
This draft isn't spectacular by any stretch.

People were trying to say that the player we get at the bottom of 1 would be a guy that normally goes 15 ish. I call BS. Besides DT and OT the top of the draft is very weak.

This draft is deep. Just because it's not full of receivers and RBs that are projected to go in the 1st round, doesn't mean it's not a good draft.

It has 2 projected QBs to go in the top 10, it has a ton of D-lineman and O-lineman scheduled to go in the first round, a couple of TEs, at least 1 receiver and couple of CBs ( as of now, because we usually don't hear about the small school players until later, who always sneak into the 1st round ) and at least 2 safeties.

20-32 There is no Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Michael Oher, Mike Jenkins, Felix Jones........There is no stud WR, S, CB down there either

How do you know ? Those guys lasted that long because NOBODY knew they were going to be as good as they became or else they wouldn't have lasted that long.

IN terms of comparing potentials:

Patrick Robinson, CB, FSU, is very comparable to Mike Jenkins. Some say he's more physically gifted than Mike.

OT Bryan Buluga has as much potential as Oher has.

LB Bruce Carter, NC, is immensley talented, his stock rising just about every day.

Jahvid Best IS a Felix Jones clone..

I could go on and on and on about the potential in this draft.
 

tomson75

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Randy White;3246568 said:
I could go on and on and on about the potential in this draft.

Please do.

I'd enjoy your thoughts if you were to post them in the Draft zone. I need to catch up. I watched a lot of college ball this year, but didn't follow too many players.
 

jterrell

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tomson75;3246546 said:
We don't have the picks to get any "blue chip" prospects. Our best bet is to go with the best value at whatever draft position we hold at the time. If that means staying put, we stay put. If that means moving up, we move up. If....well, you get the picture.

There is no set pattern,outside of following the value, that will be better than another IMO.

We can't get a blue chip at QB of course but really good prospects drop in other positions.

We draft mid 20's and can get up high enough to take a very good OL prospect at around 20. This draft is heavy at OT.

Just like we got Mike Jenkins who was a blue chip prospect in the 20's because the CB class was insanely deep that year.

Some of the best Centers in the league were drafted in the 20's as well.
 

rangers71

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Just another reason for the naysayers to come out of the woodwork and bash Jerry and the Cowboys.
 

jterrell

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Randy White;3246568 said:
This draft is deep. Just because it's not full of receivers and RBs that are projected to go in the 1st round, doesn't mean it's not a good draft.

It has 2 projected QBs to go in the top 10, it has a ton of D-lineman and O-lineman scheduled to go in the first round, a couple of TEs, at least 1 receiver and couple of CBs ( as of now, because we usually don't hear about the small school players until later, who always sneak into the 1st round ) and at least 2 safeties.



How do you know ? Those guys lasted that long because NOBODY knew they were going to be as good as they became or else they wouldn't have lasted that long.

IN terms of comparing potentials:

Patrick Robinson, CB, FSU, is very comparable to Mike Jenkins. Some say he's more physically gifted than Mike.

OT Bryan Buluga has as much potential as Oher has.

LB Bruce Carter, NC, is immensley talented, his stock rising just about every day.

Jahvid Best IS a Felix Jones clone..

I could go on and on and on about the potential in this draft.

I think most drafts are good somewhere. The key is getting the right players.
A guy like Mike Jenkins is a top 10 pick in almost any year but he happened to come out with 5 other stellar CB prospects and then it gets down to who you like more personally and for your system.

I think 8 out of 10 years you can find a couple positions to grab guys at.

OT/DT this year makes sense and that works just fine for me.

A first round OT and second round DT (who can play either NT or 3-4DE) would leave me quite happy.
 

tyke1doe

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I guess you're assuming that those 53 are good to great players.
If 3/4 of them are scrubs who made ill-advised decisions to enter the draft, it really doesn't matter how many picks we have.
 

dbair1967

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Randy White;3246568 said:
This draft is deep. Just because it's not full of receivers and RBs that are projected to go in the 1st round, doesn't mean it's not a good draft.

It has 2 projected QBs to go in the top 10, it has a ton of D-lineman and O-lineman scheduled to go in the first round, a couple of TEs, at least 1 receiver and couple of CBs ( as of now, because we usually don't hear about the small school players until later, who always sneak into the 1st round ) and at least 2 safeties.



How do you know ? Those guys lasted that long because NOBODY knew they were going to be as good as they became or else they wouldn't have lasted that long.

IN terms of comparing potentials:

Patrick Robinson, CB, FSU, is very comparable to Mike Jenkins. Some say he's more physically gifted than Mike.

OT Bryan Buluga has as much potential as Oher has.

LB Bruce Carter, NC, is immensley talented, his stock rising just about every day.

Jahvid Best IS a Felix Jones clone..

I could go on and on and on about the potential in this draft.

I havent heard anyone who's considered an expert claim this is an elite or really "deep" draft.

Every year, I mean EVERY year people in CZ believe that draft is the best ever, and almost without fail none of them are close.

Right now my opinion is this draft is no better than any in recent history. It has some positions where its ok, and some its really poor.
 

The Realist

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Randy White;3246568 said:
This draft is deep. Just because it's not full of receivers and RBs that are projected to go in the 1st round, doesn't mean it's not a good draft.

It has 2 projected QBs to go in the top 10, it has a ton of D-lineman and O-lineman scheduled to go in the first round, a couple of TEs, at least 1 receiver and couple of CBs ( as of now, because we usually don't hear about the small school players until later, who always sneak into the 1st round ) and at least 2 safeties.



How do you know ? Those guys lasted that long because NOBODY knew they were going to be as good as they became or else they wouldn't have lasted that long.

IN terms of comparing potentials:

Patrick Robinson, CB, FSU, is very comparable to Mike Jenkins. Some say he's more physically gifted than Mike.

OT Bryan Buluga has as much potential as Oher has.

LB Bruce Carter, NC, is immensley talented, his stock rising just about every day.

Jahvid Best IS a Felix Jones clone..

I could go on and on and on about the potential in this draft.

You could go on and on about this draft but it would be very helpful if you knew who was in it.

Hint:Bruce Carter is not!!!

I don't think Jahvid Best goes in one. Injury concens.

Patrick Robinson goes top 20.

There will be no HOF LB's or S's going 25-32.

That shoots to hell the depth theory of this draft.
 

Randy White

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Alexander;3246316 said:
But come April we will probably be told only three or four of our draftees can even make the team anyways and people will buy it.

And that should be the case this year again. Maybe not " 3 or 4 ", but certainly, as of now, there aren't many holes on this team. The bottom of the roster was turned with last year's draft. Players like Brandon Williams, Mike Hamlin, Stephen Hodge should be healthy entering camp this year, and they're going to be competing for spots with existing veterans, so you must make room for them.

Will there be turnovers ? Sure. Not everybody on the roster will be coming back, but then again, the best free agency period ( ie: when teams start cutting players ) hasn't even started yet, so we don't know who's going to be out there. Nobody in here predicted that Brookings and Sensabaugh were going to be the contributors they became, and they were 2nd tier FAs..

As for quality versus quantity, I am always in favor of the numbers. The more picks the better. It reduces the margin for error. That is exactly how we built our last dynasty. And draft for "quality" makes busts that much more damaging, which is why we went into the depths we did. That said six picks, all of them late in the round, is something I would like to see changed.

a) Then you should have no complaints about last year's draft approach.


b) That's a myth. Yes, Jimmah Jenius used the fish net strategy when it came to the draft, and it worked, but the situations were VERY different. He had next to nothing on the roster when they took over and there was PLENTY of room for players who, otherwise, wouldn't have made it. But there were trades and FA signing ( Tony Casillas, James Washington, Charles Haley, Jay Novacek, Thomas Everrett, John Gesek ) that played just as an important role in that dynasty as the drafted players.

It could be argue that the fish net strategy not only backfired BIG time, but it became detrimental, in the years when our roster was full of good players. Jimmah Jenius traded down in the 1993 draft to get two 2nd round picks ( Kevin Williams and Darrin Smith ). Nice, supporting cast players, but he passed on a player named Michael Strahan, who would have taken over Charles Haley eventually. Dallas spent the next 10+ years, spending valuable resources, on attempting to replace Haley since then and not until they got Ware did they did so.

1995 was another perfect example of that. They passed on this LB named Derrick Brooks to trade down, get picks, and select the likes of Sherman Williams and Kendall Watkins.

The point is that, when it comes to the draft, there is NO " sure system ". There are many variables that need to be taken into account before devising any type of strategy or " draft plan ". I didn't support the trade downs from last year. I thought it was a weaker draft and since we already had a ton of picks to begin with, we should have traded a few for this year's draft, which was projected to be stronger.

Perhaps when this draft comes along, the best strategy might be to trade down and use the fish net approach, but until the whole picture comes into focus, nobody can say for certain which is the best way to go.
 

Randy White

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jterrell;3246598 said:
I think most drafts are good somewhere. The key is getting the right players. A guy like Mike Jenkins is a top 10 pick in almost any year but he happened to come out with 5 other stellar CB prospects and then it gets down to who you like more personally and for your system.

I think 8 out of 10 years you can find a couple positions to grab guys at.

OT/DT this year makes sense and that works just fine for me.

A first round OT and second round DT (who can play either NT or 3-4DE) would leave me quite happy.


Exactly.. I like this draft more than last year's, even though there were more " skill " positions 1st rounders last year.

I think the Cowboys, if they play their cards right ( and this front office has been doing just that ) can come away with two future foundation players in the first 3 rounds.
 

jterrell

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The Realist;3246618 said:
You could go on and on about this draft but it would be very helpful if you knew who was in it.

Hint:Bruce Carter is not!!!

I don't think Jahvid Best goes in one. Injury concens.

Patrick Robinson goes top 20.

There will be no HOF LB's or S's going 25-32.

That shoots to hell the depth theory of this draft.

Posting anything certain about a draft is goofy. Combining insults and forevision into the draft prediction post is impossibly naive.

Very, very good players have been drafted between 25-32 and those guys this year will have only a minimally worse chance at the Hall of Fame than anyone else draft round 1 this year.

Of the last 4 LBs inducted into the hall of fame 2 of the 4 were top 5 picks and 2 of the four were second round picks.

We drafted Spencer in that area and I think we'd all take another one of him right now.

Kenny Phillips looked awfully good as the 31st pick of the draft early on the for Giants.

But again, no one stated this draft was a super deep LB/S grouping. We addressed those positions last year heavily which allows us to focus on where it is deep OT/DT.
 
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