A Backup Depth need...

[tskyler]

No not OL or CB... My question is around Defensive Coordinator.

So, Jerry fired Brian Stewart before last season. Wade stepped up and did a great job. But, who could come in and replace Wade. With almost half the teams in a 3-4 now. My thought is that most the up and comers have a DC job already. Wade also runs his own version which seems very different than a standard 2 gap version. Is there anyone the Cowboys are grooming to learn Wade's scheme? Seems like a waste or great career protection if not. Any thoughts on what they are thinking here?

All I can speculate is Jerry is very happy with the situation:

1. Has a head coach who defers to him, allowing him to be the face of the Cowboys. (i.e. a non-Jimmy, non-Parcells)
2. Head coach happy with OC calling the plays.
3. Head coach happy to let strong coordinators (DeCamillis, Garrett) be hired by GM Jerry
4. Knows his Defensive system

Plan may be to run the hottest offensive and special teams guys in and out. Keeping Wade in place a the only coaching fixture.

(BTW - This is serious question) What does a head coach really do in this system? He doesn't have major impact on personel decisions either in draft/FA signings (scouting dept./Stephen Jones has that power. Wade has only the Defensive Coordinator voice) , he doesnt have much power to fine/suspend/sit players (Again more a GM power in our system), Doesn't call offensive plays or create offensive game plans (OC job), Doesn't hire or fire offensive coaches. All I can see as head coach responsibilities for Wade other than Defensive Coordinator duties are: press conferences, motivational speeches, and various league meeting duties. Obviously, Jerry discounts the importance of these roles. Does anyone see any other pure head coaching jobs Wade does?

So my questions are these...
1. Do we have a Defensive Coordinator successor? Should we worry?
2. Do you think Jerry's plan long term is to keep weak head coach/strong coordinators system?
3. What does a head coach really have to do in this sort of system? Is the role superfluous in a strong GM, strong coordinator system? (not do you like the system)

Skyler

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Dave Campo. Wade can lean on him.

 

[CowboyMike]

No not OL or CB... My question is around Defensive Coordinator.

So, Jerry fired Brian Stewart before last season. Wade stepped up and did a great job. But, who could come in and replace Wade. With almost half the teams in a 3-4 now. My thought is that most the up and comers have a DC job already. Wade also runs his own version which seems very different than a standard 2 gap version. Is there anyone the Cowboys are grooming to learn Wade's scheme? Seems like a waste or great career protection if not. Any thoughts on what they are thinking here?

Reggie Herring.

All I can speculate is Jerry is very happy with the situation:

1. Has a head coach who defers to him, allowing him to be the face of the Cowboys. (i.e. a non-Jimmy, non-Parcells)
2. Head coach happy with OC calling the plays.
3. Head coach happy to let strong coordinators (DeCamillis, Garrett) be hired by GM Jerry
4. Knows his Defensive system

Wade basically brought DeCamillis in. It was more his move than Jerry's.

Plan may be to run the hottest offensive and special teams guys in and out. Keeping Wade in place a the only coaching fixture.

(BTW - This is serious question) What does a head coach really do in this system? He doesn't have major impact on personel decisions either in draft/FA signings (scouting dept./Stephen Jones has that power. Wade has only the Defensive Coordinator voice) , he doesnt have much power to fine/suspend/sit players (Again more a GM power in our system), Doesn't call offensive plays or create offensive game plans (OC job), Doesn't hire or fire offensive coaches. All I can see as head coach responsibilities for Wade other than Defensive Coordinator duties are: press conferences, motivational speeches, and various league meeting duties. Obviously, Jerry discounts the importance of these roles. Does anyone see any other pure head coaching jobs Wade does?

Wade handles the fines and sits and stuff like that. Remember he bumped up the fines last year? All his decisions.

And he doesn't create OC plays or gameplan there because he's not the OC, Jason Garrett is. What defensive minded head coach does do any of that around the league? What he does have, is input on what he wants the offense to do, and he makes in game decisions, like going for it on fourth and stuff like that.

As far as cycling OCs in and out of here, I don't think so. It is pretty obvious Jason Garrett is the head coach in waiting.

We have a strong head coach, he's just not a hard ***. But I'm pretty sure Wade has a strong grip on this team behind the scenes. This is his team. He's made it his own.

 

[jobberone]

Reggie Herring.



Wade basically brought DeCamillis in. It was more his move than Jerry's.



Wade handles the fines and sits and stuff like that. Remember he bumped up the fines last year? All his decisions.

And he doesn't create OC plays or gameplan there because he's not the OC, Jason Garrett is. What defensive minded head coach does do any of that around the league? What he does have, is input on what he wants the offense to do, and he makes in game decisions, like going for it on fourth and stuff like that.

As far as cycling OCs in and out of here, I don't think so. It is pretty obvious Jason Garrett is the head coach in waiting.

We have a strong head coach, he's just not a hard ***. But I'm pretty sure Wade has a strong grip on this team behind the scenes. This is his team. He's made it his own.

Good post.

 

[tskyler]

Reggie Herring.

Hmmmm...

Wade basically brought DeCamillis in. It was more his move than Jerry's.

I don't think I buy this. I am not saying you are wrong but.. I heard it two ways. Your way and.. that Wade had his hand forced on Bruce Read and that Stephen/Jerry liked Decamillis and Wade liked him too. But, again I had heard it your way too.

Wade handles the fines and sits and stuff like that. Remember he bumped up the fines last year? All his decisions.

I think you are overstating this for sure. Yes, I saw those stories last year too. But... everything I hear is that although fine size went up, Wade is much more limited by Jerry in this department than most other head coaches

And he doesn't create OC plays or gameplan there because he's not the OC, Jason Garrett is. What defensive minded head coach does do any of that around the league?

Fair comment.

What he does have, is input on what he wants the offense to do, and he makes in game decisions, like going for it on fourth and stuff like that.

This is where we disagree. Maybe I am wrong but my perception is this is JG or JG + Wade committee.

As far as cycling OCs in and out of here, I don't think so. It is pretty obvious Jason Garrett is the head coach in waiting.

You are probably right and this is certainly the conventional wisdom but... I just don't see this as the smart or likely move. Not because I think JG is bad. Just think with the lack of an easy Wade 3-4 clone at DC it would be much easier to replace JG at OC. Look it the offensive weapons an OC would have to play with. It's probably hyperbole but I think almost any OC with whatever style could be successful with any scheme. Whereas, I think our Defensive personnel are useful to only a small set of schemes

We have a strong head coach, he's just not a hard ***. But I'm pretty sure Wade has a strong grip on this team behind the scenes. This is his team. He's made it his own.

I hear you. I am not a Wade hater. I think my whole point is Wade may be hear longer than anyone thinks. I don't equate weak HC to bad head coach. I just don't think he has the powers of a Parcells, Jimmy Johnson, Shanahan, Rex Ryan, etc. Not the attitude I am commenting on.

Skyler

 

[Jon88]

Dave Campo. Wade can lean on him.

He needs to bring back the time clock.

Everyone loves punching in to a timeclock. Especially when you've made it past that.

Dumb ***.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

No not OL or CB... My question is around Defensive Coordinator.

So my questions are these...
1. Do we have a Defensive Coordinator successor? Should we worry?
2. Do you think Jerry's plan long term is to keep weak head coach/strong coordinators system?
3. What does a head coach really have to do in this sort of system? Is the role superfluous in a strong GM, strong coordinator system? (not do you like the system)

Skyler

So many questions. Oy! Like we mere fans possess the basics of Talmudic logic and philosophy.
It is in the stars and not within ourselves, to quote the no-account Caesar's cousin, Cornelius the Adequate of the Roman first empire.
But your questions enlighten the questioners only.

Simply put, Jerra does not belive in either the Mishnah or spoken law, the Gemara. Jerra is the dictator and a dictator rules with inane logic. In this case, arkansas logic.

But the workings of Jerra are too profound to merely ascribe Talmudic and Socratarian logic or rules.
It's mainly ideas Jerra gets when he is drunk.

 

[UnoDallas]

Reggie Herring for a in house DC

Herring spent two years in the NFL (2002-03) with the Houston Texans as the linebackers coach under head coach Dom Capers.

 

[Four]

rex ryan doesnt run the jets, that GM of theirs does.


But you think it's rex because he is in your fave with bravado, Wade isn't, so what?

you have a type of head coach in your head, and a perception that is based on public persona. Meh.

 

[Jon88]

rex ryan doesnt run the jets, that GM of theirs does.


But you think it's rex because he is in your fave with bravado, Wade isn't, so what?

you have a type of head coach in your head, and a perception that is based on public persona. Meh.

It was only a matter of time.

 

[tskyler]

you have a type of head coach in your head, and a perception that is based on public persona. Meh.

Sorry, I don't think that is the case. I get the difference between attitude and power. I wish I had a better example of quiet/powerful coach so that it's clear I am not talking about his persona vs. his actual ability to make decisions. I just happen to think Wade is quiet/unpowerful. (again, I like Wade) BTW - also not a Ryan or Parcells fan

 

[Rockytop6]

No not OL or CB... My question is around Defensive Coordinator.

So, Jerry fired Brian Stewart before last season. Wade stepped up and did a great job. But, who could come in and replace Wade. With almost half the teams in a 3-4 now. My thought is that most the up and comers have a DC job already. Wade also runs his own version which seems very different than a standard 2 gap version. Is there anyone the Cowboys are grooming to learn Wade's scheme? Seems like a waste or great career protection if not. Any thoughts on what they are thinking here?

All I can speculate is Jerry is very happy with the situation:

1. Has a head coach who defers to him, allowing him to be the face of the Cowboys. (i.e. a non-Jimmy, non-Parcells)
2. Head coach happy with OC calling the plays.
3. Head coach happy to let strong coordinators (DeCamillis, Garrett) be hired by GM Jerry
4. Knows his Defensive system

Plan may be to run the hottest offensive and special teams guys in and out. Keeping Wade in place a the only coaching fixture.

(BTW - This is serious question) What does a head coach really do in this system? He doesn't have major impact on personel decisions either in draft/FA signings (scouting dept./Stephen Jones has that power. Wade has only the Defensive Coordinator voice) , he doesnt have much power to fine/suspend/sit players (Again more a GM power in our system), Doesn't call offensive plays or create offensive game plans (OC job), Doesn't hire or fire offensive coaches. All I can see as head coach responsibilities for Wade other than Defensive Coordinator duties are: press conferences, motivational speeches, and various league meeting duties. Obviously, Jerry discounts the importance of these roles. Does anyone see any other pure head coaching jobs Wade does?

So my questions are these...
1. Do we have a Defensive Coordinator successor? Should we worry?
2. Do you think Jerry's plan long term is to keep weak head coach/strong coordinators system?
3. What does a head coach really have to do in this sort of system? Is the role superfluous in a strong GM, strong coordinator system? (not do you like the system)

Skyler

I wouldn't call Wade a "weak" head coach. He is content for Jerry to be the face of the team because he doesn't appear to be comfortable in front of a mike. I think he is very comfortable with his role. He along with Stephen and the scouts have ample input in personnel discisions. That is good. Some head coaches that want all the power don't get enough input from enough people.
As long as Jerry is happy and Wade is happy and the position coaches are happy and the players are happy why should we worry?

 

[CowboyMike]

Hmmmm...



I don't think I buy this. I am not saying you are wrong but.. I heard it two ways. Your way and.. that Wade had his hand forced on Bruce Read and that Stephen/Jerry liked Decamillis and Wade liked him too. But, again I had heard it your way too.

Wade is very close to Dan Reeves, who is DeCamillis's father in law. There's a big connection there.

Wade was not forced to fire Bruce Read. Only an idiot would not have fired Bruce Read. He was forced to fire Brian Stewart. Remember, they couldn't wait to fire Read as soon as the season ended. Stewart took a while longer to get fired.

I think you are overstating this for sure. Yes, I saw those stories last year too. But... everything I hear is that although fine size went up, Wade is much more limited by Jerry in this department than most other head coaches

I really don't think so. Wade controls the fines and who plays and who sits. Jerry doesn't limit how much the fines can be. The NFL does.

This is where we disagree. Maybe I am wrong but my perception is this is JG or JG + Wade committee.

Of course JG is going to have input. Just like Shottenheimer does with Rex Ryan with the Jets or Cam Cameron does with Harbough in Baltimore. Ultimately, though, the decision is with Wade. Go for it on 4th and 1? You bet your *** it's Wade making the call. JG calls in the play, but Wade makes the decision.

You are probably right and this is certainly the conventional wisdom but... I just don't see this as the smart or likely move. Not because I think JG is bad. Just think with the lack of an easy Wade 3-4 clone at DC it would be much easier to replace JG at OC. Look it the offensive weapons an OC would have to play with. It's probably hyperbole but I think almost any OC with whatever style could be successful with any scheme. Whereas, I think our Defensive personnel are useful to only a small set of schemes

We're never going to have a Wade clone. Wade is arguably the best defensive mind in the NFL. He's a defensive genius. You can't replace that. We saw what happened to San Diego when he left. But ultimately, Wade is going to leave. It is inevitable.

And Jason Garrett is going to be a head coach in the NFL. I don't think Jerry wants that to not be with the Dallas Cowboys. Eventually he's going to take over, and someone will step in to become the DC. The best we can hope for is that it's someone that has been under Wade's tutelage. Rumors are that right now it's Reggie Herring.

I hear you. I am not a Wade hater. I think my whole point is Wade may be hear longer than anyone thinks. I don't equate weak HC to bad head coach. I just don't think he has the powers of a Parcells, Jimmy Johnson, Shanahan, Rex Ryan, etc. Not the attitude I am commenting on.

I get you. You may be right. But Jerry has stated emphatically that Wade has the same powers that Jimmy had. He has the same powers that Parcells had. I really do think it's just a case of whether the HC thumps his chest about it (ala Jimmy and Bill) or is a more modest kind of character, like Wade.

EDIT: Remember, Anthony Spencer was basically a Wade Phillips pick. That was at a time when people really didn't think we needed another OLB. Jerry overruled Parcells when he wanted Spears at 11, and took Ware instead. It's all a matter of perception, I think.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Wade definitely got Decamillis hired. He'd coached with him before at Atlanta, and he's Dan Reeves' son-in-law. Of course Dan and Wade are very good friends.

Wade also has a big say on players we bring in. Do you think old Wade players Brooking and Olshansky being signed was a coincidence? Wade also speaks up when he really wants to draft a player, like Spencer, Brandon Williams, and Alan Ball. He campaigned for Felix, too.

Yes, Jerry hired Red before Wade, and Red got some of "his" hires like his brother and Houck. But don't be fooled. Jerry loves the spotlight and wants all the credit, so he acts like everything is his doing. Wade has the kind of personality that can tolerate that, so he goes along with it. But Jerry isn't evaluating these players on his own.

As far as Wade's system on D goes, it's been pretty well proven over the years that hiring former assistants to run his D doesn't work anyway. So you might as well just hire the best defensive coach possible when he leaves, whenever that is. Maybe Herring is the exception, but I wouldn't count on it. Some good 34 coordinator will be available when Wade goes, and we'll carry on. Just don't expect him to be quite as good.

 

[Jon88]

Wade definitely got Decamillis hired. He'd coached with him before at Atlanta, and he's Dan Reeves' son-in-law. Of course Dan and Wade are very good friends.

Wade also has a big say on players we bring in. Do you think old Wade players Brooking and Olshansky being signed was a coincidence? Wade also speaks up when he really wants to draft a player, like Spencer, Brandon Williams, and Alan Ball. He campaigned for Felix, too.

Yes, Jerry hired Red before Wade, and Red got some of "his" hires like his brother and Houck. But don't be fooled. Jerry loves the spotlight and wants all the credit, so he acts like everything is his doing. Wade has the kind of personality that can tolerate that, so he goes along with it. But Jerry isn't evaluating these players on his own.

As far as Wade's system on D goes, it's been pretty well proven over the years that hiring former assistants to run his D doesn't work anyway. So you might as well just hire the best defensive coach possible when he leaves, whenever that is. Maybe Herring is the exception, but I wouldn't count on it. Some good 34 coordinator will be available when Wade goes, and we'll carry on. Just don't expect him to be quite as good.

A lot of people don't like QuarterbackCoach, but I think it was epic him yelling at Decamiullis walking to the bus carring a jansport backpack. What the hell kind of 40+ year old special teams coach carries as backpack? The guy was an embarassment. With a backpack on his shoulder. Idiot.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

A lot of people don't like QuarterbackCoach, but I think it was epic him yelling at Decamiullis walking to the bus carring a jansport backpack. What the hell kind of 40+ year old special teams coach carries as backpack? The guy was an embarassment. With a backpack on his shoulder. Idiot.

http://i479.***BLOCKED***/albums/rr160/shebowski/whut.jpg

 

[Jon88]

http://i479.***BLOCKED***/albums/rr160/shebowski/whut.jpg

It's a video on YouTube.

I'll look for it...

Everything else I said about him was spot on, though.

Guess they've been taken down. QuarterbackCoach gave Decamillus an earful.

 

[Beast_from_East]

When Wade goes, so will his Phillups 34. Think of it this way, under what conditions would Wade be leaving???

A. We just won the SB and Wade is retiring. Who gives a rat's arse who the new DC will be, we just won the SB!!!!!!

B. We get eliminated yet again from the playoffs or fail to make the playoffs all together. In this case, our defense probably sucked anyways so why keep Wade around???


As for as the new head coach........just a matter of time until Garrett takes over.

 

[Jon88]

When Wade goes, so will his Phillups 34. Think of it this way, under what conditions would Wade be leaving???

A. We just won the SB and Wade is retiring. Who gives a rat's arse who the new DC will be, we just won the SB!!!!!!

B. We get eliminated yet again from the playoffs or fail to make the playoffs all together. In this case, our defense probably sucked anyways so why keep Wade around???


As for as the new head coach........just a matter of time until Garrett takes over.

I really like Wade Phillips and I can't see how anyone wouldn't try their hardest playing for him. I hope he wins a SuperBowl here.

 

[CowboyMike]

A lot of people don't like QuarterbackCoach, but I think it was epic him yelling at Decamiullis walking to the bus carring a jansport backpack. What the hell kind of 40+ year old special teams coach carries as backpack? The guy was an embarassment. With a backpack on his shoulder. Idiot.

This even further cements the idiocy of QuarterbackCoach, and I'm not sure about you, either, for agreeing with him.

The only member of the Dallas Cowboys organization that should never get a sort of treatment like that is Joe Decamillis. After all he's been through and all the sacrifices he's made to be on our sideline. All because the guy uses a back pack? So what?