A preseason tale of two teams...

[cobra]

Why? My team has won a playoff game this century and doesn't have a constant soap opera about a hamstring

I'm sorry.

How many rings does your team have now?

What's the record of your team versus our team? Over All-time? Over the last 10 years?

When are Skins fans going to learn to quit making such moronic statements as this? When the records gets close enough to make it a close rivalry instead of a dominance, then you can start trying to bring up such nonsense. Till that time, the only rational method of argument for you is "we are catching up" or something along those lines.

 

[trickblue]

The Commanders better hope that they're capable of 'turning on the switch', because you can't afford to have a slow start in this division. And they have early road games against the Boys and Giants too. If they lose both of those games, it will be interesting to see how Gibbs and his guys work with Saunders. This is the first time Gibbs has ever relinquished control of his offense, and I'm not so sure this CEO Head Coach stuff is going to work. Its a nice theory in the offseason, but we'll see when they're pinned down in the trenches and the bullets start flying.

They are really banking on that too... at least among the fans...

If Gibbs is dipleased with the attitude and dedication of his players, he needs to get them out of the box in a hurry. If they drop the first 3 or 4 games, he could lose the team...

 

[silverbear]

Why? My team has won a playoff game this century

Hey, if living off last year's glory is good enough for you, go for it... me, I prefer to look ahead to THIS season...

Like I said, when the Commanders were clicking in 2002 in preseason, I was told by my favorite Cowboy fans that it meant nothing, and you were right

Likewise gentlemen, it means nothing once again

Stats have been offered that show that teams that advance far in the playoffs tend to have winning preseasons... clearly, they don't mean "nothing", as you suggest...

However, you're kinda right, what's most important in preseason is not wins and losses, but how your team is playing...

Your team is playing very badly right now, mine is playing as well as anybody in the NFL...

I'll look at a few encouraging things. Against Cinci, our starting D held that starting O to minus 19 yards.

With Aaron Brooks at the helm, not Carson Palmer... big whoop...

The first team O drove the ball on its one possesion

And didn't SCORE... in fact, the first team O has yet to score a single point in preseason...

Didn't see the Jets game, nor any replay so I can't comment on that. The one improvement between the Jets game and Patriots game though was the fact that anytime the Pats tried running the ball, it was stuffed. Nice to see

You're kidding, right?? New England had 170 yards on 38 carries, a 4.5 average... that average might have been a bit higher, but they scored FOUR TDs rushing, and three of those were 1 yarders... that knocked the average down a bit...

The Skins currently rank 31st in the league in rushing defense, next to LAST, at 165.3 yards per game... they're 29th in the league in yards per carry, allowing 4.6... they're tied for the league lead in MOST touchdowns allowed rushing (5 in 3 games)...

Against the Pats however the bltiz was ineffective, and the DB's were playing a zone D, which made it incredibly easy for a very good QB like Tom Brady to hit an open man in the middle of the zone.

Which showed the rest of the league that a two TE offense is a very good way of attacking Gregg Williams' blitz-crazy defensive schemes...

The line play, simply no excuses for it.

To be fair, that has been the most surprising thing about this offseason... oh, I knew the Skins would struggle when the backup linemen were in, those backups aren't very good... but I surely never expected the starters to play so poorly...

Is everything where I, as a fan would like it to be? No not even close. I would have liked to have seen the starting O put up points and block effectively. I would have loved to have seen CP not get injured on play 8. I would have liked to have seen a team that can make the basic plays, but is what it is

I'll give you credit for being at least semi-realistic in your analysis... you might be a Skins fan, but you don't seem to be one of the blind homers...

I just pray your coaches and players are writing us off as your fan base is. For some reason, I think the coaching staff and players you have are far smarter then that

Nobody's writing you off, hoss, we're simply pointing out that the Skins are struggling right now... and being Cowboys fans, yeah, we're enjoying it a little bit... LOL...

 

[silverbear]

They are really banking on that too... at least among the fans...

If Gibbs is dipleased with the attitude and dedication of his players, he needs to get them out of the box in a hurry. If they drop the first 3 or 4 games, he could lose the team...

Gibbs is probably more to blame for the current state of the Skins than any other employee of the Mad Midget...

Why do I say that?? Well, the Skins hire an offensive coordinator who's notorious for running an extremely complicated offensive system... one that will take any team a while to learn... so what does Gibbs do?? He runs the shortest, easiest training camp in the NFL this year-- last team to report to camp, fewer two a days than any other team...

If you're learning a new, complicated system, seems to me you'd want to give yourself all the practice time you could to get it down... I can only guess that Gibbs recognized how razor-thin his depth was, and was anxious not to get his starters hurt, to the point that he cut down the number of practices...

If that's the case, it doesn't seem to have worked for him, does it??

 

[cobra]

I can only guess that Gibbs recognized how razor-thin his depth was

And what is the reason for this razor thin depth? Because the idiots there think a team is built by over-paying for other team's spares based solely on name recognition.

They can't evaluate players worth a damn. It's like the team is run by Madden players/Sportscenter junkies. They got lucky and hit on Portis, but he was pretty much an obvious sure thing. But the rest of their over-priced acquisitions stunts their ability to draft good young players and develop depth in this age of salary caps.

 

[CrazyMonster]

Why? My team has won a playoff game this century and doesn't have a constant soap opera about a hamstring

In all seriousness preseason hasn't meant anything for me ever.

Like I said, when the Commanders were clicking in 2002 in preseason, I was told by my favorite Cowboy fans that it meant nothing, and you were right

Likewise gentlemen, it means nothing once again

I'll look at a few encouraging things. Against Cinci, our starting D held that starting O to minus 19 yards. The first team O drove the ball on its one possesion

Didn't see the Jets game, nor any replay so I can't comment on that. The one improvement between the Jets game and Patriots game though was the fact that anytime the Pats tried running the ball, it was stuffed. Nice to see

Against the Pats however the bltiz was ineffective, and the DB's were playing a zone D, which made it incredibly easy for a very good QB like Tom Brady to hit an open man in the middle of the zone.

The line play, simply no excuses for it. The o-line should be better, and the WR's should catch the ball when it hits them in the hands

Is everything where I, as a fan would like it to be? No not even close. I would have liked to have seen the starting O put up points and block effectively. I would have loved to have seen CP not get injured on play 8. I would have liked to have seen a team that can make the basic plays, but is what it is

But the sky certainly is not falling, its the same old song and dance with a Joe Gibbs preseason team. The year before Superbowl 26, the freakin Jets shutout the Commanders 13-0 in game 3, the "tuneup game" We all know how it worked out that year

Only one guy ever cared how his team looked in preseason, and that was Steve Spurrier. In week 15 he was still saying things like "I wish we could play like we were in preseason" Hello mcfly!

I just pray your coaches and players are writing us off as your fan base is. For some reason, I think the coaching staff and players you have are far smarter then that

You crazy Madjacker!

 

[MossBurner]

Gibbs is probably more to blame for the current state of the Skins than any other employee of the Mad Midget...

Why do I say that?? Well, the Skins hire an offensive coordinator who's notorious for running an extremely complicated offensive system... one that will take any team a while to learn... so what does Gibbs do?? He runs the shortest, easiest training camp in the NFL this year-- last team to report to camp, fewer two a days than any other team...

If you're learning a new, complicated system, seems to me you'd want to give yourself all the practice time you could to get it down... I can only guess that Gibbs recognized how razor-thin his depth was, and was anxious not to get his starters hurt, to the point that he cut down the number of practices...

If that's the case, it doesn't seem to have worked for him, does it??

Yes, Gibbs is to blame for the current state of the franchise. Two years removed from the Spurrier debacle, they went 5-1 in the East, 10-2 in the NFC, and won a road playoff game. I think some non-Commanders fans seem to forget that this is the preseason. For God's sake, wait until the regular season before you dismiss a team.

The Skins had one of the shortest training camps (by no more than a few practices) but had the longest OTA schedule of any team in the league with the highest attendance record in the history of the league.

Al Saunders will prove to be a huge value to the team. If you think he is not an upgrade, you are deluding yourself. His system is complex, but that is why he always has proven, veteran QBs on the roster.

btw, Aaron Brooks plays for the Raiders, not the Bengals.

 

[Angus]

Thanks, silverbear, for the great big helping of cheese. Be careful of eating it all at once. It does strange things to your digestive tract.

 

[silverbear]

And what is the reason for this razor thin depth? Because the idiots there think a team is built by over-paying for other team's spares based solely on name recognition.

Well, the rhetoric is a little harsh, but you're pretty much right... let me try restating the argument:

When you trade away handfuls of draft picks for veteran players, and when you build your team with a lot of costly veteran free agents, you wind up with a team that has a lot of money tied up in their starters... and with a firm salary cap, that leaves you with less money to add quality depth...

The model for success in the NFL today (i.e, in the salary cap era) is to do a good job drafting, and sign your own players to contract extensions before they hit free agency-- the good players, of course... this model is best exemplified by the Pats and the Iggles (though the Iggles are handicapped by being a little cheap)...

 

[cobra]

Well, the rhetoric is a little harsh, but you're pretty much right... let me try restating the argument:

When you trade away handfuls of draft picks for veteran players, and when you build your team with a lot of costly veteran free agents, you wind up with a team that has a lot of money tied up in their starters... and with a firm salary cap, that leaves you with less money to add quality depth...

The model for success in the NFL today (i.e, in the salary cap era) is to do a good job drafting, and sign your own players to contract extensions before they hit free agency-- the good players, of course... this model is best exemplified by the Pats and the Iggles (though the Iggles are handicapped by being a little cheap)...

You did restate it correctly and less colorfully. I used to try to explain to Skins fans in as you just did. But I got frustrated and now use the more colorful language. Good for you for being more fair.

 

[silverbear]

Yes, Gibbs is to blame for the current state of the franchise. Two years removed from the Spurrier debacle, they went 5-1 in the East, 9-2 in the NFC, and won a road playoff game.

Mostly because his team stayed uncommonly healthy until late in the season...

And for all that, his record since his return to the Skins is 16-16...

I think some non-Commanders fans seem to forget that this is the preseason. For God's sake, wait until the regular season before you dismiss a team.

I'm not dismissing them, I'm saying they have serious problems...

Al Saunders will prove to be a huge value to the team. If you think he is not an upgrade, you are deluding yourself. His system is complex, but that is why he always has proven, veteran QBs on the roster.

Perhaps he will, but it's starting to look like it may take the Skins a year or two to fully grasp his system...

I'll resist commenting on how well your "proven, veteran" QBs have demonstrated their grasp of that complicated offense thus far...

btw, Aaron Brooks plays for the Raiders, not the Bengals.

You're right, of course, I meant Anthony Wright... brain cramp on my part...

 

[silverbear]

Thanks, silverbear, for the great big helping of cheese. Be careful of eating it all at once. It does strange things to your digestive tract.

We bears have cast-iron stomachs...

 

[silverbear]

You did restate it correctly and less colorfully. I used to try to explain to Skins fans in as you just did. But I got frustrated and now use the more colorful language. Good for you for being more fair.

Oh, I have my moments... LOL...

 

[Chocolate Lab]

so what does Gibbs do?? He runs the shortest, easiest training camp in the NFL this year-- last team to report to camp, fewer two a days than any other team...

Really? I didn't realize that...

Doesn't seem the way such an old-school coach would do it, does it? But like you say, he must be trying to protect himself from having to play any of his backups.

 

[silverbear]

Really? I didn't realize that...

Doesn't seem the way such an old-school coach would do it, does it? But like you say, he must be trying to protect himself from having to play any of his backups.

That's the only thing I can figure out, CL...

 

[firehawk350]

Wow, what should I say??? There you go Cowboys fans, the winners of the preseason! The preseason matters so much and is such a good forecaster for regular season performance... Let's take the 05 Boys vs. the 05 Skins. The Boys went 3-1 in the preseason but lost to the Cards??? And the Skins went 1-3 and beat the Steelers. Hmmmm... How did that work out for you??? Let's see, you got beat twice by the Skins and ended up watching those same Skins go to the playoffs while you sat at home and thought about how great it is to be good in preseason.
Fast forward to the 06 season... Your worst offenses in the league??? Kansas City, New York Jets (okay, not a great offense), Arizona, Washington, Seattle... Yeah, I mean, those offenses are all in serious trouble! I mean, Carolina has no passing attack at all (28th in the league) and Kansas City's rushing attack sucks as well (26th in the league).
Your worst defenses??? Tennessee, San Fran (granted, they suck normally), Indy, Washington, Atlanta and Chicago. Hopefully Chicago's offense can carry the load because their defense just aint cutting it...
And all hail the winners of the preseason superbowl, the Raiders(4-0)! Best team in the league right now...

 

[superpunk]

Wow, what should I say??? There you go Cowboys fans, the winners of the preseason! The preseason matters so much and is such a good forecaster for regular season performance... Let's take the 05 Boys vs. the 05 Skins. The Boys went 3-1 in the preseason but lost to the Cards??? And the Skins went 1-3 and beat the Steelers. Hmmmm... How did that work out for you??? Let's see, you got beat twice by the Skins and ended up watching those same Skins go to the playoffs while you sat at home and thought about how great it is to be good in preseason.
Fast forward to the 06 season... Your worst offenses in the league??? Kansas City, New York Jets (okay, not a great offense), Arizona, Washington, Seattle... Yeah, I mean, those offenses are all in serious trouble! I mean, Carolina has no passing attack at all (28th in the league) and Kansas City's rushing attack sucks as well (26th in the league).
Your worst defenses??? Tennessee, San Fran (granted, they suck normally), Indy, Washington, Atlanta and Chicago. Hopefully Chicago's offense can carry the load because their defense just aint cutting it...
And all hail the winners of the preseason superbowl, the Raiders(4-0)! Best team in the league right now...

Taking such a shallow view of those records is awesome. It won't work. We've seen the Skins, we've seen their pathetic execution.

I wouldn't worry too much, though. I don't think the Packers scored a TD last preseason either.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Everyone knows that preseaon records don't matter, because half the time the scores are decided by backups or even players who won't make the team. But I guarantee you that no coach -- not even Coach Fibbs -- wants his first team to go out and look like crap, even if it's just for a couple of series.

 

[cobra]

Wow, what should I say??? There you go Cowboys fans, the winners of the preseason! The preseason matters so much and is such a good forecaster for regular season performance... Let's take the 05 Boys vs. the 05 Skins. The Boys went 3-1 in the preseason but lost to the Cards??? And the Skins went 1-3 and beat the Steelers. Hmmmm... How did that work out for you??? Let's see, you got beat twice by the Skins and ended up watching those same Skins go to the playoffs while you sat at home and thought about how great it is to be good in preseason.
Fast forward to the 06 season... Your worst offenses in the league??? Kansas City, New York Jets (okay, not a great offense), Arizona, Washington, Seattle... Yeah, I mean, those offenses are all in serious trouble! I mean, Carolina has no passing attack at all (28th in the league) and Kansas City's rushing attack sucks as well (26th in the league).
Your worst defenses??? Tennessee, San Fran (granted, they suck normally), Indy, Washington, Atlanta and Chicago. Hopefully Chicago's offense can carry the load because their defense just aint cutting it...
And all hail the winners of the preseason superbowl, the Raiders(4-0)! Best team in the league right now...

It's almost as if you are intentionally not reading what we are actually saying in order to avoid having to respond to it. And instead, you are choosing to argue something no one is saying.

Poor ability to evaluate something? No wonder you are a Skins fan.

 

[superpunk]

It's almost as if you are intentionally not reading what we are actually saying in order to avoid having to respond to it. And instead, you are choosing to argue something no one is saying.

Poor ability to evaluate something? No wonder you are a Skins fan.

It's incredibly easy to knock arguments down when you created them yourself, and noone else is arguing against you.

Bottom line is this, IMO. The Skins and Steelers (since tehy are so fond of pointing to last years preseason) had bad preseasons last year. What happened? They started slowly. The Skins barely beat the Bears, Seahawks, and Cowboys. They were that close to being 2-9, or 3-7. They CANNOT afford that slow start this year. So take solace in last years results all you want skins fans. Don't count on a repeat.