A Quiet, Nasty Upgrade

Diehardblues

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Let me see it, then I'll believe it. I never know what to expect from the Cowboys going into week 1. I used to know when Tom Landry was coach. But not in the past 25 years.

I can honestly say that I wouldn't be surprised if the Cowboys went 12-5 or 5-12. I have no idea. But past history would tell me 8-9 or something like that. So I have zero expectations. Lets see.
But yet past history tells you the Jints will go 12-5?
 

Diehardblues

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I also think one over-confident mistake everyone is making is these guys are all rookies. When Jabril Cox steps onto that field against Tom Brady, it’ll be the first meaningful snap he’s taken in the NFL in his life.

Parsons may turn out to be a great player, but you’re not getting 25 year old, perennial pro bowl Micah this year. When he’s in the open field trying to tackle Alvin Kamara, and AK pulls a triple move on him... that’s something collegiate football can’t prepare you for. Experience prepares you for that moment.

Everyone saw Dak and Zeke have monster rookie years and felt some normalcy there, but for defense it works very different. Quality defensive play comes from reps, experience, years of it. Sometimes there’s a rookie like Darius Leonard who comes in guns blazing, but that’s rare. That’s really rare, why he got so much press about it. But there are threads expecting 2, 3, 4, 5 guys from this draft class to fix major defensive problems you had last year. That’s extraordinarily unrealistic.

How was Demarcus Lawrence his rookie year? Nonexistent. Fletcher Cox? An okay rotational piece. Brian Dawkins? A rookie who played like a rookie. Ray Lp

What’s far more realistic is Jaylon and LVE have good preseasons, are named starters, and play the vast majority of snaps this year (as long as they don’t poop the bed). Micah fills in for Sean Lee, but for how much nickel you played last year, how many overall snaps did Lee get? 30%? Less?
No doubt our Rookies aren’t as likely to make immediate spectacular impacts. What I’d be looking more for is some of our 2nd year players like Diggs and Gallimore to begin making more impact. And veterans absent like Gregory making an impact. And those returning healthy like Van Esch.

Hopefully the addition of these Rookies will allow our veterans who fit your game experience criteria will emerge more with better supporting cast around them which is a more reasonable expectation.
 

CouchCoach

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I also think one over-confident mistake everyone is making is these guys are all rookies. When Jabril Cox steps onto that field against Tom Brady, it’ll be the first meaningful snap he’s taken in the NFL in his life.

Parsons may turn out to be a great player, but you’re not getting 25 year old, perennial pro bowl Micah this year. When he’s in the open field trying to tackle Alvin Kamara, and AK pulls a triple move on him... that’s something collegiate football can’t prepare you for. Experience prepares you for that moment.

Everyone saw Dak and Zeke have monster rookie years and felt some normalcy there, but for defense it works very different. Quality defensive play comes from reps, experience, years of it. Sometimes there’s a rookie like Darius Leonard who comes in guns blazing, but that’s rare. That’s really rare, why he got so much press about it. But there are threads expecting 2, 3, 4, 5 guys from this draft class to fix major defensive problems you had last year. That’s extraordinarily unrealistic.

How was Demarcus Lawrence his rookie year? Nonexistent. Fletcher Cox? An okay rotational piece. Brian Dawkins? A rookie who played like a rookie. Ray Lp

What’s far more realistic is Jaylon and LVE have good preseasons, are named starters, and play the vast majority of snaps this year (as long as they don’t poop the bed). Why would Quinn sub in a rookie who played 3 seasons at North Dakota State, unless he was desperate. Micah fills in for Sean Lee, but for how much nickel you played last year, how many overall snaps did Lee get? 30%? Less?

You don’t draft guys(particularly defensive guys) in 2021 for 2021. You draft them for 2023, 2024, 2025+
Good stuff but that last part is for DC's not hired to fix the worst D in the franchise's history. Progress is the name of the game but we are going to see more from these rooks than normal because that's what the owner will want to be showing off.

The best thing Quinn has going for himself is a high octane offense capable of putting up 30+ a game. Quinn is going to have to take some chances and he can with this offense.
 

CATCH17

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I also think one over-confident mistake everyone is making is these guys are all rookies. When Jabril Cox steps onto that field against Tom Brady, it’ll be the first meaningful snap he’s taken in the NFL in his life.

Parsons may turn out to be a great player, but you’re not getting 25 year old, perennial pro bowl Micah this year. When he’s in the open field trying to tackle Alvin Kamara, and AK pulls a triple move on him... that’s something collegiate football can’t prepare you for. Experience prepares you for that moment.

Everyone saw Dak and Zeke have monster rookie years and felt some normalcy there, but for defense it works very different. Quality defensive play comes from reps, experience, years of it. Sometimes there’s a rookie like Darius Leonard who comes in guns blazing, but that’s rare. That’s really rare, why he got so much press about it. But there are threads expecting 2, 3, 4, 5 guys from this draft class to fix major defensive problems you had last year. That’s extraordinarily unrealistic.

How was Demarcus Lawrence his rookie year? Nonexistent. Fletcher Cox? An okay rotational piece. Brian Dawkins? A rookie who played like a rookie. Ray Lp

What’s far more realistic is Jaylon and LVE have good preseasons, are named starters, and play the vast majority of snaps this year (as long as they don’t poop the bed). Why would Quinn sub in a rookie who played 3 seasons at North Dakota State, unless he was desperate. Micah fills in for Sean Lee, but for how much nickel you played last year, how many overall snaps did Lee get? 30%? Less?

You don’t draft guys(particularly defensive guys) in 2021 for 2021. You draft them for 2023, 2024, 2025+


100%


What kind of impact are rookies going to realistically have?

Our biggest potential upgrade is Dan Quinn’s scheme. Not the 20 & 21 year olds.




The key to Dallas being good again:

1. Oline and Zeke need to be great

2. Keep the defense off the field and when they are on it make offenses drive down the field and earn points and don’t give up big plays.

3. Dak needs to pass less. The offense needs to look more like a machine and less of a freestyle Dak show that can’t beat decent teams.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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Good stuff but that last part is for DC's not hired to fix the worst D in the franchise's history. Progress is the name of the game but we are going to see more from these rooks than normal because that's what the owner will want to be showing off.

The best thing Quinn has going for himself is a high octane offense capable of putting up 30+ a game. Quinn is going to have to take some chances and he can with this offense.

I do think you guys will be better, and Quinn is a big part of that. But it’ll be more about improvements to Jaylon and LVE being used better + second year jumps from Diggs et al
 

conner01

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Except when they have to play close to the line in short yardage.

I thought about him at S when they took him, flashed back to Woody. I watched Cox a lot at LSU and he runs like a S, he's really fluid for a LB.
He’s got decent quickness so when he’s close to LOS we could blitz him some
But this year I suspect he plays mostly ST and maybe some sub pkg but I don’t see him getting that many snaps barring injury to someone
 

conner01

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I also think one over-confident mistake everyone is making is these guys are all rookies. When Jabril Cox steps onto that field against Tom Brady, it’ll be the first meaningful snap he’s taken in the NFL in his life.

Parsons may turn out to be a great player, but you’re not getting 25 year old, perennial pro bowl Micah this year. When he’s in the open field trying to tackle Alvin Kamara, and AK pulls a triple move on him... that’s something collegiate football can’t prepare you for. Experience prepares you for that moment.

Everyone saw Dak and Zeke have monster rookie years and felt some normalcy there, but for defense it works very different. Quality defensive play comes from reps, experience, years of it. Sometimes there’s a rookie like Darius Leonard who comes in guns blazing, but that’s rare. That’s really rare, why he got so much press about it. But there are threads expecting 2, 3, 4, 5 guys from this draft class to fix major defensive problems you had last year. That’s extraordinarily unrealistic.

How was Demarcus Lawrence his rookie year? Nonexistent. Fletcher Cox? An okay rotational piece. Brian Dawkins? A rookie who played like a rookie. Ray Lp

What’s far more realistic is Jaylon and LVE have good preseasons, are named starters, and play the vast majority of snaps this year (as long as they don’t poop the bed). Why would Quinn sub in a rookie who played 3 seasons at North Dakota State, unless he was desperate. Micah fills in for Sean Lee, but for how much nickel you played last year, how many overall snaps did Lee get? 30%? Less?

You don’t draft guys(particularly defensive guys) in 2021 for 2021. You draft them for 2023, 2024, 2025+
I doubt Cox is gonna be stepping on the field very much at all against Brady
Maybe against their special teams
 

DanA

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I also think one over-confident mistake everyone is making is these guys are all rookies. When Jabril Cox steps onto that field against Tom Brady, it’ll be the first meaningful snap he’s taken in the NFL in his life.

Parsons may turn out to be a great player, but you’re not getting 25 year old, perennial pro bowl Micah this year. When he’s in the open field trying to tackle Alvin Kamara, and AK pulls a triple move on him... that’s something collegiate football can’t prepare you for. Experience prepares you for that moment.

Everyone saw Dak and Zeke have monster rookie years and felt some normalcy there, but for defense it works very different. Quality defensive play comes from reps, experience, years of it. Sometimes there’s a rookie like Darius Leonard who comes in guns blazing, but that’s rare. That’s really rare, why he got so much press about it. But there are threads expecting 2, 3, 4, 5 guys from this draft class to fix major defensive problems you had last year. That’s extraordinarily unrealistic.

How was Demarcus Lawrence his rookie year? Nonexistent. Fletcher Cox? An okay rotational piece. Brian Dawkins? A rookie who played like a rookie. Ray Lp

What’s far more realistic is Jaylon and LVE have good preseasons, are named starters, and play the vast majority of snaps this year (as long as they don’t poop the bed). Why would Quinn sub in a rookie who played 3 seasons at North Dakota State, unless he was desperate. Micah fills in for Sean Lee, but for how much nickel you played last year, how many overall snaps did Lee get? 30%? Less?

You don’t draft guys(particularly defensive guys) in 2021 for 2021. You draft them for 2023, 2024, 2025+

Guys like Queen and Murray had an instant impact as late 1st round picks. So did many others outside of the LBers such as Jefferson and Lamb. In fact you go through all the Cowboys 1st round picks and plenty made an instant impact. T.Smith, Frederick, Martin, Dez, Byron Jones, LVE, Zeke, and Ceedee all had pretty successful rookie years with Taco and Claiborne exceptions rather than the rule.
 

stilltheguru

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So we'll be back to hoping for a FG with 2nd & Goal from the 6 yard line darn near every drive?
Go watch Atlanta's defenses. Im glad many people stopped bringing up Quinn in Seattle. Especially since Richard had a top 3 rank d their too. It was obviously the players. We will be bend dont break but I think we have more playmakers on d than the 2018 team so that might help.
 

Bigtex67

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I think we're going to be surprised with the playing time these rookies get. They picked 8 players for a reason and with a new DC, starting positions and playing time are not guaranteed. Quinn will also get the advantage of actually seeing his players play before their first real game.

I think he's going to run a pretty open roster set up and players are going to get the chance to earn that playing time. Two players put on notice quickly are Smith and Vander Esch, neither are guaranteed of being on the field on critical downs.

One positive of a really bad defense is it is wide open for new blood to show what they can do. I think the only starter that feels he's secure is Lawrence and maybe Gregory, if he can get consistent.

Between the FA's and rooks, it's going to be wide open with many opportunities.

This is truly my hope. If they really let there be open competition, we should see some excellent improvement to the defense this year.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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Guys like Queen and Murray had an instant impact as late 1st round picks. So did Jefferson and Lamb. In fact you go through all the Cowboys 1st round picks and plenty made an instant impact. T.Smith, Frederick, Martin, Dez, Byron Jones, LVE, Zeke, and Ceedee all had pretty successful rookie years with Taco and Claiborne exceptions rather than the rule.

I'm not sure who Queen is, but 7 of the other 9 guys you mentioned were offensive players, that was part of my point. Byron Jones was pretty good as a rookie, but would have changed little on the 2020 Cowboys defense, as people are expecting Joseph or the new fat DT or Parson to do.

LVE is a good example, he was another rare impressive rookie LB. On a different note, Pass rushers, like most offensive positions, have a quick doctrination into the NFL as their jobs can be quite complex, but the stat we rate them on is overly simple. A couple guards roll an ankle, another moment he mistakenly goes unblocked, or a blown play... and suddenly midway through the season a rookie DE has 4 sacks and everyone is talking about how great he's been.

So other than pass rushers, who was the last Cowboys defensive rookie to play as well as LVE? Was it in the 2000's? The 90's? Or even before?
 

CouchCoach

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No doubt our Rookies aren’t as likely to make immediate spectacular impacts. What I’d be looking more for is some of our 2nd year players like Diggs and Gallimore to begin making more impact. And veterans absent like Gregory making an impact. And those returning healthy like Van Esch.

Hopefully the addition of these Rookies will allow our veterans who fit your game experience criteria will emerge more with better supporting cast around them which is a more reasonable expectation.
The world knows the Cowboys had a bad defense in 2020. There has been more talk about the Cowboy's putrid defense than the SB champs and GOAT QB.

They get to face that team to start off the season and the D will be pronounced fixed, a work in progress or the same ole same ole in that game. That wouldn't be a problem for most teams but this one has a GM that listens to the media a lot. How Quinn will respond to that will direct this from there.

There's what Booger says like baby steps and progress and what he really wants, instant fix. He didn't hire a name DC and give him 8 picks and some FA's not to be fixed and fixed now.

If the Bucs manhandle this defense and Brady goes north of 30, as he did in every playoff game, the ride is going to be rough but keep it close and Booger gets one of his patented "moral victories" because this is the defending champs at home, then Quinn gets a bit of a reprieve...for a week.

I do not fault Booger for living in the here and now as I do that as well. It can be a bit of a challenge for a coaching staff to keep him happy. Booger just fired his first one year coordinator and like a man eating tiger, might have a taste for it.

The best thing Quinn has going for him is two away games to start the season, really get his guys focused on the task at hand. There's not a returning D player that doesn't want to get that stench off them from last year. Quinn does have some very motivated players to work with and they were waiting for a leader.
 

birdwells1

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I was just watching a video from a guy that is trying to make the case that Cox is really a safety trapped in a linebacker's body. He says if Cox plays safety he could start today.
I think I saw that video, that's like saying a good rebounding point guard should be moved to forward. No then he'd be an average rebounder against other forwards. Keep him at lber and improve coverage at the safety position.
 

CouchCoach

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I would imagine that Quinn has watched quite a bit of film from last year's defense and already knows the trouble areas.

The other part of this is what do we think Booger is expecting? More of the same, just a scheme change? Why did he pick all of these D players?

I think some might underplay how different this team is than others. What some are saying about the youngsters crawling, walking and then running ignores how this team is set up. Most teams have the coaching staff there to win games, this coaching staff serves at the pleasure of the owner. An owner that likes to run his mouth a lot.
 

Cowpolk

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Except when they have to play close to the line in short yardage.

I thought about him at S when they took him, flashed back to Woody. I watched Cox a lot at LSU and he runs like a S, he's really fluid for a LB.
I thought about Parsons at safety But I think he might accidentally decapitate someone.
 

Redball Express

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On passing downs, we can now deploy Neal and Cox instead of Lee/Smith.

We stand to see stickier coverage on TEs and RBs than we have seen in a loooong time. Of course this may directly result in more PBUs and INTs at LBer— but here is what excites me even more if Neal and Cox are successful:

No more easy throws to the flats or the soft parts of the zone. With Cox/Neal patrolling at LBer— QBs will be forced to make more difficult throws elsewhere, or fit balls into tighter windows. Or simply hold onto the ball a tick longer

More pressure. More sacks. More INTs. More fumbles.

For too long QBs have been able to make easy reads and throws to RBs and TEs....that can potentially change now with Cox and Neal as our nickel backers.

tenor.gif
Yeah it's amazing what a little time makes. Back when Wolf Hunter was a rookie.. I thought with how our LBers were playing. we would be set for 10 years. Here we are instead furiously trying to find healthy bodies all of a sudden. Creepy.
 

Diehardblues

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I thought about Parsons at safety But I think he might accidentally decapitate someone.
I hadn’t thought of Parsons at Free Safety but with his 4.3 speed and size for a LB it might actually be a great move. Great comparison to Darren Woodson.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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I also think one over-confident mistake everyone is making is these guys are all rookies. When Jabril Cox steps onto that field against Tom Brady, it’ll be the first meaningful snap he’s taken in the NFL in his life.

Parsons may turn out to be a great player, but you’re not getting 25 year old, perennial pro bowl Micah this year. When he’s in the open field trying to tackle Alvin Kamara, and AK pulls a triple move on him... that’s something collegiate football can’t prepare you for. Experience prepares you for that moment.

Everyone saw Dak and Zeke have monster rookie years and felt some normalcy there, but for defense it works very different. Quality defensive play comes from reps, experience, years of it. Sometimes there’s a rookie like Darius Leonard who comes in guns blazing, but that’s rare. That’s really rare, why he got so much press about it. But there are threads expecting 2, 3, 4, 5 guys from this draft class to fix major defensive problems you had last year. That’s extraordinarily unrealistic.

How was Demarcus Lawrence his rookie year? Nonexistent. Fletcher Cox? An okay rotational piece. Brian Dawkins? A rookie who played like a rookie. Ray Lp

What’s far more realistic is Jaylon and LVE have good preseasons, are named starters, and play the vast majority of snaps this year (as long as they don’t poop the bed). Why would Quinn sub in a rookie who played 3 seasons at North Dakota State, unless he was desperate. Micah fills in for Sean Lee, but for how much nickel you played last year, how many overall snaps did Lee get? 30%? Less?

You don’t draft guys(particularly defensive guys) in 2021 for 2021. You draft them for 2023, 2024, 2025+
I’m expecting absolutely nothing and hoping for the best. With a training camp I think the defense will be better but I do not share the same optimism as most this season. They will look better but they will still get torched up until proven otherwise.
 
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