Advantages of a 4 WR set

[GhostOfPelluer]

I applaud your effort to think unconventionally. One thing you are missing in this equation is you are taking players off the field who have been blocking most of their careers in favor of folks who have probably only been asked to block since they got in the league. Who has a higher success rate of making a block in the run game, a FB/TE or a WR? Besides when you get all those DB on the field you put more speed on the field and that might actually make it more difficult to run against.

Besides, we actually have good blocking TEs on the roster - where they are suspect is in the passing game.

 

[AbeBeta]

this is the 1990s attitude that garrett subscribes to.
it is obsolete.
everybody knows what to do against zeke
1. get 2 big DTs
2. 8 in a box

the 90's offense is great against 80% of the teams.
when you play in games that count, the defenses are good.

Everybody knows what to do against Zeke?

Let's review.

25 career games. 2614 yards rushing. 632 yards receiving.

130 yards a game from scrimmage per game.

But everyone know what to do against Zeke. Right.

 

[OmerV]

if it is dime, there may be 1 lb, who has to be up the middle to start the play as there are 5 ol to 4 dl.
zeke has 4.4 speed so he would outrun almost any lb to the edge.
so the defender zeke will likely see first will be a db by himself.

IF it is dime, but it won't always be dime. There will be 2 LBs a lot of the time.

By the way, how many teams use 4 WR as there base offense? Do you think you have thought of something other teams haven't?

 

[Ranching]

Everybody knows what to do against Zeke?

Let's review.

25 career games. 2614 yards rushing. 632 yards receiving.

130 yards a game from scrimmage per game.

But everyone know what to do against Zeke. Right.

Thats turrible, he should have at least 3,000 yards rushing and 1,000 receiving!

 

[thunderpimp91]

Because Zeke is STILL the teams best player the defense knows it.
They aren't going to just turn their back to Zeke and chase TWill down the field, ROFL.
This is not hard.
No but you are forcging teams to get out of their base packages, and take LBs off the field in place of DBs. It becomes much easier for your back to get to the 2nd level of a defense that is playing out of the nickel/dime.

They know what you are good at so you simply be good enough that it doesn't matter.

We didn't run 4 WR for Emmitt Smith.
We didn't draft all these OL that high to give up in the trenches and be scared of power football.
That's actually why i think this is a good idea. You have 3 All Pro players on your o line, a solid RT, and an unknown but high potential player at LG. Why not spread the defense out, and let your o-line play against 5-6 men in the box? I'm not saying don't play power football, but why not play power football against a weaker defensive front?

We are the bullies, we aren't the scared ones who need tricks; at least when the OL is healthy. We were 4th in the NFL in scoring last year until Tyron went down.
This isn't a trick, its simply using formations to maximize success. Most of the NFL is already doing this to some extent, and the Cowboys actually did it quite a bit in 2016, with quite a bit of success too.

 

[CF74]

I wish we went 5 Wide every other 2-3 series...

 

[jterrell]

Let me break this down as nicely as possible.

Teams in the NFL play 4-2-5 about 75% of the time.
Going 4 WR really only changes that if you have 4 scary WRs they must fear.
It certainly doesn't change it if you do not have clear WR1 that scares people to death.

So this 4 WR stuff is essentially nonsense for this team unless the WR corps is all of a sudden a top 5 group.

And I'ma let you do the math but 4 down linemen and 2 LB means Zeke is STILL outnumbered and must account for 1 man BEFORE the safeties.

In 2017 the year ended with offensively futility galore. I grant that.

But 2016 ended with fans screaming at the top of their lungs why did Linehan not just hand it to Zeke every play!!!!!

See the way this works is everyone wants creatively and tricks when the base doesn't work.
When the tricks fail and you look stupid of course they want the base.

At the end of the day this team had an identity in 2016 that was this OL pounding people. Zeke ATE behind that group.
When that group was down THREE starters from 2016 it wasn't able to manage.
The entire offensive scheme was built upon Tyron Smith never ever having double team help.
It's not even a consideration.
But Dallas screwed up with Chaz Green. They tried him inside to get him on the field because they thought he was their 5th best OL.
Then when he proved he just wasn't an OG they thought hey could toss him back out at LT in a pinch. OOOPPPPSSSSS!!!!!
Adios Muchachos to that OL Coach and hello dear friends to Connor Williams, Marcus Martin and Cam Fleming.

Dallas upgraded at the 5th, 6th and 7th OL spots all to go back to that smash-mouth style of football.

And you guys wanna talk 4 WRs...... oy vey.

 

[silvrNblue]

Bah... 4 WR sets, we don't need no stinking 4 WR set's...that's what the "screen" pass is for. IMHO, we could get waaaaaay better at selling the screen pass then a 4 wide set...Dallas is a run 1st team, period.

 

[Montanalo]

Forget the math for a moment, I like the idea of 4 WR sets but not necessarily as the base offense and not necessarily just to hand off to Zeke. Incorporating the RPO into this set adds an additional degree of difficulty for the defense (and, admittedly, places your QB at greater risk).

Personally, I would prefer a 3 WR, 1 TE and 1 RB set. I think offers greater flexibility as well as greater opportunity to "stress" the defence.

JMO

 

[PAPPYDOG]

Let's all Pray that Zeke can keep it 3rd 2- on every series and forget the 4wr set as you need a stud QB to run something of that nature!

Heck we can't even beat 8 in the box and you want 4wr set right......lol...Dak will have 25 interceptions at least!

 

[waldoputty]

Let me break this down as nicely as possible.

Teams in the NFL play 4-2-5 about 75% of the time.
Going 4 WR really only changes that if you have 4 scary WRs they must fear.
It certainly doesn't change it if you do not have clear WR1 that scares people to death.

So this 4 WR stuff is essentially nonsense for this team unless the WR corps is all of a sudden a top 5 group.

And I'ma let you do the math but 4 down linemen and 2 LB means Zeke is STILL outnumbered and must account for 1 man BEFORE the safeties.

In 2017 the year ended with offensively futility galore. I grant that.

But 2016 ended with fans screaming at the top of their lungs why did Linehan not just hand it to Zeke every play!!!!!

See the way this works is everyone wants creatively and tricks when the base doesn't work.
When the tricks fail and you look stupid of course they want the base.

At the end of the day this team had an identity in 2016 that was this OL pounding people. Zeke ATE behind that group.
When that group was down THREE starters from 2016 it wasn't able to manage.
The entire offensive scheme was built upon Tyron Smith never ever having double team help.
It's not even a consideration.
But Dallas screwed up with Chaz Green. They tried him inside to get him on the field because they thought he was their 5th best OL.
Then when he proved he just wasn't an OG they thought hey could toss him back out at LT in a pinch. OOOPPPPSSSSS!!!!!
Adios Muchachos to that OL Coach and hello dear friends to Connor Williams, Marcus Martin and Cam Fleming.

Dallas upgraded at the 5th, 6th and 7th OL spots all to go back to that smash-mouth style of football.

And you guys wanna talk 4 WRs...... oy vey.

you got 2 wr's that run 4.3's and you think the defense is going to play single safety deep and nickel?
the lb (lbs) has to defend the run up the middle with 5 OL vs. 4 DL.
smash mouth worked against 80% of the teams, but not defenses like the giants in 2016.

4wr does not take away the smash mouth.
this is still handing the ball to zeke ta least 50% of the time or more.
it just spreads the defense apart more to give zeke more space.

 

[waldoputty]

I applaud your effort to think unconventionally. One thing you are missing in this equation is you are taking players off the field who have been blocking most of their careers in favor of folks who have probably only been asked to block since they got in the league. Who has a higher success rate of making a block in the run game, a FB/TE or a WR? Besides when you get all those DB on the field you put more speed on the field and that might actually make it more difficult to run against.

Besides, we actually have good blocking TEs on the roster - where they are suspect is in the passing game.

same question - would you trust zeke to beat db in space.
i would bet he can do it at least 50% of the time.
it would reduce the chance for a long run, but should reduce the chance for the run being stuffed or a short gain.

of course a fb/te has a better chance to make a block.
however, who has better chance in making a tackle - cb or as, s or lb?

 

[waldoputty]

Everybody knows what to do against Zeke?

Let's review.

25 career games. 2614 yards rushing. 632 yards receiving.

130 yards a game from scrimmage per game.

But everyone know what to do against Zeke. Right.

yes everyone knows what do do against zeke.
and the teams in the playoff are much more likely to have the right personnel to play 8-in-a-box well.
the 1990 playbook had its run, the playoff-caliber defenses figured it out after 2016 season.

 

[waldoputty]

IF it is dime, but it won't always be dime. There will be 2 LBs a lot of the time.

By the way, how many teams use 4 WR as there base offense? Do you think you have thought of something other teams haven't?

we have the ol and rb to take advantage of it.
most teams dont.

 

[jterrell]

Forget the math for a moment, I like the idea of 4 WR sets but not necessarily as the base offense and not necessarily just to hand off to Zeke. Incorporating the RPO into this set adds an additional degree of difficulty for the defense (and, admittedly, places your QB at greater risk).

Personally, I would prefer a 3 WR, 1 TE and 1 RB set. I think offers greater flexibility as well as greater opportunity to "stress" the defence.

JMO

The "11" offense is very popular in Dallas and is the "base". Was Zeke, Witten, Dez, Cole, TWill.
In fact EVERY NFL Team ran that as it's base in 2016 and Dallas was especially deadly out of it:
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/2016-offensive-personnel-analysis


The concept of 10 is now popular because idea is you just replace Witten with WR4. --even though of course we don't know who that even is yet.
I think that makes sense but only in 2 minute warning cases where the defense is going to drop into zones.

Any base defense would just recognize you have a shortage of blockers and blitz you.
QB or RB would get hit in backfield regularly and QB would be forced to rush a throw other times.

But 10 is used though not very often.
And here's why.

This is the Super Bowl just over a year ago.
SEA has double stack WRs and Marshawn plus Russell in the backfield.
Do you see the problem?
NE has 7 guys in the box to deal with 5 blockers.
This play is only used by SEA because Russell is an effective to stellar ball carrier.

The 10 personnel is essentially a college set. It's the base for Air Raid.
And it works because colleges do not have enough DL to dominate OLs like they do the NFL.
When a team is loaded on the DL you really can't run this offense unless the QB and RB are both going to be runners.
See Clemson. or Bama. The talent on the DL drives teams out of all out passing sets.
Except where the QB can really run which the kryptonite for any elite DL.

 

[waldoputty]

The "11" offense is very popular in Dallas and is the "base". Was Zeke, Witten, Dez, Cole, TWill.
In fact EVERY NFL Team ran that as it's base in 2016 and Dallas was especially deadly out of it:
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/2016-offensive-personnel-analysis


The concept of 10 is now popular because idea is you just replace Witten with WR4. --even though of course we don't know who that even is yet.
I think that makes sense but only in 2 minute warning cases where the defense is going to drop into zones.

Any base defense would just recognize you have a shortage of blockers and blitz you.
QB or RB would get hit in backfield regularly and QB would be forced to rush a throw other times.

But 10 is used though not very often.
And here's why.

This is the Super Bowl just over a year ago.
SEA has double stack WRs and Marshawn plus Russell in the backfield.
Do you see the problem?
NE has 7 guys in the box to deal with 5 blockers.
This play is only used by SEA because Russell is an effective to stellar ball carrier.

The 10 personnel is essentially a college set. It's the base for Air Raid.
And it works because colleges do not have enough DL to dominate OLs like they do the NFL.
When a team is loaded on the DL you really can't run this offense unless the QB and RB are both going to be runners.
See Clemson. or Bama. The talent on the DL drives teams out of all out passing sets.
Except where the QB can really run which the kryptonite for any elite DL.

this is a red-zone argument.

 

[LocimusPrime]

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

same question - would you trust zeke to beat db in space.
i would bet he can do it at least 50% of the time.
it would reduce the chance for a long run, but should reduce the chance for the run being stuffed or a short gain.

of course a fb/te has a better chance to make a block.
however, who has better chance in making a tackle - cb or as, s or lb?

Zeke would have a better chance of beating a LB in space than a DB. DBs are more used to playing in space. I'd give a DB - with more speed - a better chance of catching the play from behind. Again, it comes down to playing to your strengths. And as has been said, we'd be likely to see 5 DBs and 2 LBs against our 4 wide than 6 DBs. Then the defense has a distinct advantage in the running game.

 

[817Gill]

https://thelandryhat.com/2018/06/04/dallas-cowboys-time-start-using-10-personnel/

10 personnel is the secret weapon!

 

[waldoputty]

what is #3? te?