Alex Barron or Jamal Brown ?

[dbair1967]

Oh please. You came off with the line 'Brown is hardly a bigtime Pro Bowl talent' when the facts are that he is - more than once in fact. But again, because he went to the rival Commanders, he's now garbage.

Now you are just being ridiculous. You know what I meant.

Well, guess what, that's the title of this thread - Barron or Brown. And you are bashing him because he's now a Commander, whether you can see it or not.

How am I bashing him? Because I said he was an up and down player with a history of both good and bad moments and that there were questions at times over his work ethic? None of that is really disputable.

'Multiple year starter'? How so? Barron hasn't signed any type of extension

with the Cowboys. And the Commanders gave up one draft pick - a conditional pick based on what they have to give the Eagles for McNabb. We've wasted less on the Jacob Rogers of the world.

Barron was a multiple year starter with the Rams, he's only missed a couple of games in his career. He's started at LT and RT, we got the guy to be a backup and gave up a guy we were gonna release. Did you not understand this either?

And some of 'you people' can't stand the fact that anyone who doesn't wear a star on their helmet might actually be a good player. And then you have to tell everybody how they should think along the way.

This is utter garbage dude. There's plenty of players around the league I think are exceptional. Brown's a nice player if he's healthy and he works hard, I've never said anything different. I dont believe for a second that he's an elite player though, which was my pouint of contention with some in this thread.

There are two reasons why Brown was available:

1) Injury concerns

and

2) Contract demands

The Commanders rolled the dice that he'll be healthy and if so they're willing to pay to keep him.

Worst case, they gave up a draft pick to find out.

Unlike some, I can give others credit for a nice trade.

Thats not the only two reasons he was available. The Saints dont think that highly of him, that plays a part.

And it very well could be a good trade for the Skins. Just like the Barron trade could be good for us. I never contended once that Barron was better than Brown, or that Brown was a useless player. You just took some comments you didnt like and ran with them.

 

[Plumfool]

To be honest brown has been the better player through out his pro career up yo this point. The injury is obviously a concer.

However at this point they both have queston marks. And as far as what the cowboys were willing to pay, what they felt they actually needed for this year, future money, and this coaching staff history with taking a talented player who has had some problems translating that talent to the field; Barron seems like the right choice for us.

Brown I think will be fine in Washington, for what shanny likes to do. But I repeat brown has had a better Career so far.

 

[pgreptom]

I would double check your references there Hos.

2007 probowl (2006 season)
http://football.about.com/od/nflhistory/a/2007probowl_2.htm

2009 probowl (2008 season)
http://www.nfl.com/probowl/story?id...late=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

2009 he was an injury replacement, he was not originally selected to go.

2007 he was selected, but did not play due to injury.

 

[mmillman]

rather have Brown. Brown could start either side and is a much better run blocker than Barron.

 

[Stash]

Now you are just being ridiculous. You know what I meant.

Yeah, I know what you meant. You meant to minimze a good player because another team acquired him. I know what you meant.

How am I bashing him? Because I said he was an up and down player with a history of both good and bad moments and that there were questions at times over his work ethic? None of that is really disputable.

Pretty much. Because the comments aren't accurate. In fact, they're much more applicable to the player the Cowboys acquired, Alex Barron.

Barron was a multiple year starter with the Rams, he's only missed a couple of games in his career. He's started at LT and RT, we got the guy to be a backup and gave up a guy we were gonna release. Did you not understand this either?

I 'understand' just fine, better than you do apparently. Brown is a 'multiple year starter' as well. He's started at RT and LT as well, and unlike Barron, he's received acclaim for how well he's played.

This is utter garbage dude. There's plenty of players around the league I think are exceptional. Brown's a nice player if he's healthy and he works hard, I've never said anything different. I dont believe for a second that he's an elite player though, which was my pouint of contention with some in this thread.

Please. It's the same routine when any non-Cowboy is ever mentioned. 'This guys sucks', 'that guy sucks'. And then when the Cowboys sign them he's suddenly 'pretty good'.

Thats not the only two reasons he was available. The Saints dont think that highly of him, that plays a part.

No, you assume that the Saints don't think highly of him. The fact may be that they're too cheap to pay another player (which Benson is known for). Sounds like the classic and shortsighted Mickey Spagnola "If he's so good why is he available?" line.

And it very well could be a good trade for the Skins. Just like the Barron trade could be good for us. I never contended once that Barron was better than Brown, or that Brown was a useless player. You just took some comments you didnt like and ran with them.

No, you attempted to minimize Brown as a player in a thread comparing him to Barron.

But we can agree that we both hope that the Barron deal works out great for us.

The Redkins? Not so much.

 

[Stautner]

No, you assume that the Saints don't think highly of him. The fact may be that they're too cheap to pay another player (which Benson is known for). Sounds like the classic and shortsighted Mickey Spagnola "If he's so good why is he available?" line.

I tell you one thing, I would feel MUCH more comfortable having one of our OL positions filled by a guy the Saints were willing to part with than with one the Rams were willing to part with, and even more so considering the willingness of the Saints to part with their player was partially based the ability to get a very nice return in a trade (a 1st and 3rd round pick), while the Rams were willing to settle for Bobby Carpenter. That should say a lot about the difference in the two right there, even if it was the Commanders who paid the price.

 

[Plumfool]

Now pls help me. Was it a 1 and 3 or was it a 3 and 4. I thought at least one pick was conditional?

 

[Stash]

I tell you one thing, I would feel MUCH more comfortable having one of our OL positions filled by a guy the Saints were willing to part with than with one the Rams were willing to part with, and even more so considering the willingness of the Saints to part with their player was partially based the ability to get a very nice return in a trade (a 1st and 3rd round pick), while the Rams were willing to settle for Bobby Carpenter. That should say a lot about the difference in the two right there, even if it was the Commanders who paid the price.

Where did you get the info that they gave up a 1st and 3rd pick?

From what I've read, Washington gave up one conditional pick that may end up being a third rounder. That info says the deal is dependant on what the Commanders have to give Philly for McNabb. The Eagles get the higher pick and the Saints get the next highest.

 

[Plumfool]

Nevermind I read it on espn. Quite frankly the deal is more complicated than Texas law. Kidding of course.

 

[Stash]

Nevermind I read it on espn. Quite frankly the deal is more complicated than Texas law. Kidding of course.

Don't keep it a secret.

Share with the rest of the class.

 

[Stautner]

Where did you get the info that they gave up a 1st and 3rd pick?

From what I've read, Washington gave up one conditional pick that may end up being a third rounder. That info says the deal is dependant on what the Commanders have to give Philly for McNabb. The Eagles get the higher pick and the Saints get the next highest.

I read it somewhere. I thought on this board. I honestly haven't taken the time to read up on it so I could have my info wrong. I thought it seemed like a very steep price for a guy coming off an injury, so maybe that was just one of those preliminary rumors that proved to be false.

If a 3rd is what Brown cost and he is healthy I would have gladly paid that.

If I was wrong on the price tag, I stand corrected. The other part of my post applies though. A guy from a strong team like the Saints is still more attractive than a guy from a weak team like the Rams who simply can't afford to let guys go that they consider valuable. Factor in a couple of Pro-Bowls for Brown and I don't see how Barron compares.

 

[Stash]

I read it somewhere. I thought on this board. I honestly haven't taken the time to read up on it so I could have my info wrong. I thought it seemed like a very steep price for a guy coming off an injury, so maybe that was just one of those preliminary rumors that proved to be false.

If I was wrong on the price tag, I stand corrected. The other part of my post applies though. A guy from a strong team like the Saints is still more attractive than a guy from a weak team like the Rams who simply can't afford to let guys go that they consider valuable.

Oh I definitely agree with you on that.

At this point we just have to hope that the front office knows what they're doing and that they've made the right decisions at left tackle.

If not, we could be in for a long season.

 

[firehawk350]

Where did you get the info that they gave up a 1st and 3rd pick?

From what I've read, Washington gave up one conditional pick that may end up being a third rounder. That info says the deal is dependant on what the Commanders have to give Philly for McNabb. The Eagles get the higher pick and the Saints get the next highest.

Nevermind I read it on espn. Quite frankly the deal is more complicated than Texas law. Kidding of course.

Here's the skinny and probably the easiest way to remember it. The Commanders will essentially drop two rounds in the 2011 draft. If the Skins have to give up a 3rd for McNabb, the Saints get a fourth and give back a sixth. If the Skins have to give up a 4th for McNabb, the Saints get the 3rd and give up a 5th.

 

[Stautner]

Oh I definitely agree with you on that.

At this point we just have to hope that the front office knows what they're doing and that they've made the right decisions at left tackle.

If not, we could be in for a long season.

You missed the addition to my post, but if Brown is healthy, and a 3rd round pick was all it would cost to bring him in, I would have done that in a heartbeat instead of the Barron deal. Someone said we looked into a deal for Brown before making the deal with Barron, and if that's true I think we should have pulled the trigger if this kind of deal were available, but who knows, either the Saints asking price at the time may have been too steep or maybe we weren't convinced about Brown's health.

 

[firehawk350]

I read it somewhere. I thought on this board. I honestly haven't taken the time to read up on it so I could have my info wrong. I thought it seemed like a very steep price for a guy coming off an injury, so maybe that was just one of those preliminary rumors that proved to be false.

If a 3rd is what Brown cost and he is healthy I would have gladly paid that.

If I was wrong on the price tag, I stand corrected. The other part of my post applies though. A guy from a strong team like the Saints is still more attractive than a guy from a weak team like the Rams who simply can't afford to let guys go that they consider valuable. Factor in a couple of Pro-Bowls for Brown and I don't see how Barron compares.

The 1st and 3rd likely came from his RFA tag, which was the highest available. Somebody probably just assumed the Skins gave the Saints the tender amount.

 

[firehawk350]

I tell you one thing, I would feel MUCH more comfortable having one of our OL positions filled by a guy the Saints were willing to part with than with one the Rams were willing to part with, and even more so considering the willingness of the Saints to part with their player was partially based the ability to get a very nice return in a trade (a 1st and 3rd round pick), while the Rams were willing to settle for Bobby Carpenter. That should say a lot about the difference in the two right there, even if it was the Commanders who paid the price.

Well, I think a lot of it had to do with contract demands and not very much to do with injury concerns. He had a hip injury and a sport hernia injury (not a knee problem). However, the Saints have a plethora of NFL starter level tackles and they probably just didn't see the need to pay elite money to a tackle when Bushrod is going to start anyways. Elite money for a back-up just doesn't make any sense.

On the bleacherreport (not sourced so grain of salt here), they have Jammal Brown as giving up only 10 sacks over the course of 1750 snaps. 1 every 175 (obviously), or about 3-4/yr.

Footballoutsiders (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol) bear out that Brown is a good, if not great, run blocker.

 

[Stash]

You missed the addition to my post, but if Brown is healthy, and a 3rd round pick was all it would cost to bring him in, I would have done that in a heartbeat instead of the Barron deal. Someone said we looked into a deal for Brown before making the deal with Barron, and if that's true I think we should have pulled the trigger if this kind of deal were available, but who knows, either the Saints asking price at the time may have been too steep or maybe we weren't convinced about Brown's health.

I would have too, but the front office obviously wants to give Doug Free first crack at the LT job. But they could have had Brown compete at RT with Colombo as well (who I feel is slipping).

I think timing likely played a significant factor. At the point the Cowboys were looking, the price was probably higher. And then Dallas found a good deal with the Rams and pulled the trigger on the Barron/Carpenter deal. At that point, they were done dealing.

 

[Stautner]

I would have too, but the front office obviously wants to give Doug Free first crack at the LT job. But they could have had Brown compete at RT with Colombo as well (who I feel is slipping).

I think timing likely played a significant factor. At the point the Cowboys were looking, the price was probably higher. And then Dallas found a good deal with the Rams and pulled the trigger on the Barron/Carpenter deal. At that point, they were done dealing.

That's exactly how I see it.

 

[burmafrd]

I just hope that if Barron looks like the better player then they do not stick with Free just because that is what their plan was. This staff has shown reluctance to make changes before even when the need was obvious.

My take on Barron is that he has never motivated himself to work really hard. He has the physical tools to be a Pro Bowl LT. He just has never worked hard enough to be one.

 

[DCBoysfan]

I more concern about Columbo than I'am about Free. But I think a heathy Brown is better than Barron, but I'm happy with Barron.