All 22 vs Cards

[Doomsday]

Here is a video of every offensive snap from the Cards game.

One thing seems clear, Dak is too cautious when it comes to throws to the outside and I believe it is causing teams to play more aggressively on the inside routes. The Cards played quite a bit of single-high safety and Dallas didn't take advantage of it.

Interested in seeing what others think.

FYI, ****NOT-AN-OFFICIAL-SOURCE*** is a great follow if you aren't doing so already. He always has great content.

 

[Einstein]

Thanks, I'll watch tomorrow when I have time.

 

[nalam]

Thank you , painful , but will put through to see certain things if correct.

 

[zeke21]

Love the little commentary.. "Play action called after averaged 1.8 yards on the run"

That sums Moore up right there.. you have to ESTABLISH the run before PA will work you donkey

 

[CATCH17]

Love the little commentary.. "Play action called after averaged 1.8 yards on the run"

That sums Moore up right there.. you have to ESTABLISH the run before PA will work you donkey

Play action works without the run game. It’s been proven that how well or poor you run has no impact on playaction success.

The play in question picked up about 7 yards.

 

[zeke21]

Play action works without the run game. It’s been proven that how well or poor you run has no impact on playaction success.

The play in question picked up about 7 yards.

Agree to disagree and I actually think PA is one of Daks biggest strengths.. he is better rolling out than standing in the pocket for mine.

The defence didn't bite on the PA though.. so I think a roll out works just as well, if not better.

Which is another annoyance of mine.. just because we get yards on a play.. doesn't make it the right play necessarily.

If we establish the run early.. and have a D really biting.. then Dak can PA, roll out and then hit Cooper or Lamb deep for those big plays.

Also, and I might be incorrect and apologise if I am, I think it was 3rd down and the 7 yards wasn't enough for the first?

 

[nightrain]

Here is a video of every offensive snap from the Cards game.

One thing seems clear, Dak is too cautious when it comes to throws to the outside and I believe it is causing teams to play more aggressively on the inside routes. The Cards played quite a bit of single-high safety and Dallas didn't take advantage of it.

Interested in seeing what others think.

FYI, ****NOT-AN-OFFICIAL-SOURCE*** is a great follow if you aren't doing so already. He always has great content.

Good stuff. Only watched some of the 1st drive and two things jumped out at me. McGovern getting blown up in the meat bag formation and double clutch Dak on the roll out and late throw. Oh well, Moore should go back to the drawing board with that playbook.

 

[CATCH17]

Agree to disagree and I actually think PA is one of Daks biggest strengths.. he is better rolling out than standing in the pocket for mine.

The defence didn't bite on the PA though.. so I think a roll out works just as well, if not better.

Which is another annoyance of mine.. just because we get yards on a play.. doesn't make it the right play necessarily.

If we establish the run early.. and have a D really biting.. then Dak can PA, roll out and then hit Cooper or Lamb deep for those big plays.

Also, and I might be incorrect and apologise if I am, I think it was 3rd down and the 7 yards wasn't enough for the first?

There is probably better sources than this.



https://weeklyspiral.com/2021/10/29/play-action-passing-is-the-best-play-in-football/


A limiting belief from coaches is that they have to establish to the run to be able to have effective play-action. Data does not support that. For years, play-action success rate has been uncorrelated to rush attempts and rushing success rate. Running play-action is just as effective when you’ve run the ball 30% of the time as it is when you run it 50% of the time.

What’s more, it doesn’t matter if you’re breaking off big chunks on those runs, either. That’s true in season-long data sets and within individual games as well. Regardless of how often a team has rushed in subsequent plays or how well they rushed in subsequent plays, the yards per attempt on play-action remain stable and higher than normal dropback passing.

 

[Acheman08]

Good stuff. Only watched some of the 1st drive and two things jumped out at me. McGovern getting blown up in the meat bag formation and double clutch Dak on the roll out and late throw. Oh well, Moore should go back to the drawing board with that playbook.

I watched alot and noticed ALOT of wr routes include running straight, stopping and turning around. If you are going to do that, why not launch the ball before the guy even turns around? Ala Aikman. Thats one thing I dont like about Dak, he has no anticipation. Generally he has to wait until the receiver stops and turns around before he throws.

 

[goshann]

Agree to disagree and I actually think PA is one of Daks biggest strengths.. he is better rolling out than standing in the pocket for mine.

The defence didn't bite on the PA though.. so I think a roll out works just as well, if not better.

Which is another annoyance of mine.. just because we get yards on a play.. doesn't make it the right play necessarily.

If we establish the run early.. and have a D really biting.. then Dak can PA, roll out and then hit Cooper or Lamb deep for those big plays.

Also, and I might be incorrect and apologise if I am, I think it was 3rd down and the 7 yards wasn't enough for the first?

you can agree to disagree but stats back up what catch said. Running effectiveness has little impact on play action success rate. There are plenty of analytics on it

 

[CATCH17]

you can agree to disagree but stats back up what catch said. Running effectiveness has little impact on play action success rate. There are plenty of analytics on it

Its probably a common thing that a lot of fans and even coaches don’t know about.

It plays with defenders eyes and makes them think which can be enough to get them out of position long enough to open a window and get a guy open.

 

[nightrain]

I watched alot and noticed ALOT of wr routes include running straight, stopping and turning around. If you are going to do that, why not launch the ball before the guy even turns around? Ala Aikman. Thats one thing I dont like about Dak, he has no anticipation. Generally he has to wait until the receiver stops and turns around before he throws.

Throw the guy open. It's how the best win.

 

[VaqueroTD]

I don’t have time to go back and watch everything on an All 22 but Christ Almighty, you can’t tell me we play that many snaps without one of the freaking wideouts open deep. I’m not saying that Dak has to be a Romo and just start gunslinging it like crazy down there, but what’s the freaking point if your offense is never moving because you’re too afraid to take a chance? And I don’t know what has happened, if it’s Dak’s confidence, if it’s Kellen Moore clamming up, because they were not like this at the beginning of the year. I don’t care how much better the run game was, it still doesn’t cause an offense to completely shut down like that through several quarters. As being pointed out, play action is still effective regardless of your running game. Hell, all you had to do was watch Quincy Carter play under Sean Payton. That man was a playaction machine with Troy Hambrick.

 

[Zordon]

I swear the most underreported story about this offense this year has been the abysmal blocking from Schultz. How could the coaches allow this crap to persist all season? He is responsible for so many negative plays.

 

[zeke21]

There is probably better sources than this.



https://weeklyspiral.com/2021/10/29/play-action-passing-is-the-best-play-in-football/


A limiting belief from coaches is that they have to establish to the run to be able to have effective play-action. Data does not support that. For years, play-action success rate has been uncorrelated to rush attempts and rushing success rate. Running play-action is just as effective when you’ve run the ball 30% of the time as it is when you run it 50% of the time.

What’s more, it doesn’t matter if you’re breaking off big chunks on those runs, either. That’s true in season-long data sets and within individual games as well. Regardless of how often a team has rushed in subsequent plays or how well they rushed in subsequent plays, the yards per attempt on play-action remain stable and higher than normal dropback passing.

Yes but as someone who works with stats for a living.. they can lie but I see your point.

From your quoted article:
However, play-action isn’t a catch all in all situations. The threat of the run has to be present. Running play-action on 3rd and 10 isn’t as impactful as running it on 3rd and short. While the long down and distance situation doesn’t lend itself to running play-action, almost every other situation does.

So.. when we call PA on a 3rd and long.. it is the wrong play call and reason why we didn't pick up the 1st.

Again I would say that I am a fan of PA.. and these analytics are old.. defensive schemes have adjusted to PA and LB are continuing to read plays by analytics rather than 'eyes'.. this means the effectiveness of plays designed to disguise at LOS will decrease over time.

but I'm not trying to have a fight with you. You think the PA call was right.. I would like to see a direct roll out to give Dak a few more seconds to find a longer target.. knowing the defence isn't biting on the run.

 

[Section446]

Teams just aren't afraid of Dak, and why would they be?

 

[texbumthelife]

Love the little commentary.. "Play action called after averaged 1.8 yards on the run"

That sums Moore up right there.. you have to ESTABLISH the run before PA will work you donkey

This has been proven wrong recently. It’s been shown the success of PA has very little correlation with a good running game. The Rams ran PA consistently with no running game and Goff throwing the ball and were incredibly effective. The Browns, on the other hand, have a very good run game and can’t get anything going with PA.

 

[buddieluver]

Teams just aren't afraid of Dak, and why would they be?

They are not afraid of Moore either.

 

[Section446]

They are not afraid of Moore either.

Moore is handicapped by Dak. Thankfully, both will be gone in three years, then we can get serious about winning titles again.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

I said this on Sunday. Dak wasn't as bad as he was a few weeks back at WFT, but he was just too hesitant. He needs to go back to trusting his instincts.