All Personal T.O. bias aside...

[BrAinPaiNt]

TO won't ever stay quiet. He is what he is. You're going to get the bad with the good.

X-mas is over you poser, change that AV:laugh2:

 

[Yeagermeister]

TO won't ever stay quiet. He is what he is. You're going to get the bad with the good.

That's just a Fact of Life

 

[Doomsday101]

TO won't ever stay quiet. He is what he is. You're going to get the bad with the good.

2 teams already felt the good was not worth the bad. Not sure how his 3rd team is feeling right now about his future or if they want to continue to take the good with the bad. Personally I don't think any team should have to deal with that given the cash that is being handed out to today’s players.

 

[peplaw06]

That's definitely true. He still runs it out hard, but it also seems that draws a crowd quickly. He's either less dynamic than he was (entirely possible, given his age), or we just aren't getting the ball to him at the right time.

Isn't part of his drop off in YAC due to the fact he's not in the WCO anymore? That's what the WCO was built to do, get a WR YAC.

 

[jackrussell]

Sad thing is, IMO, if T.O. would have just kept his big mouth shut, did not bring negative attention on himself or given the media reason to bash him, Just go out and do his job then none of this would be a problem.

Seriously.

He has put up good numbers, his drops would not be as big of an issue to me if he would not complain about getting the ball more (when I recently saw a stat that shows he has actually been thrown to more times so far this year than his first year with the eagles).

I remember not wanting Keyshawn to be a cowboy, but he came and did his job and for the most part did not make waves or bring attention to himself.

If TO would have came in here, did his job, did not bring attention to himself I would be OK with him right now. But that was not the case. What is even worse that the ESPN agenda, which TO brings on himself, is those that go out of their way to defend his actions.

If the man would just shut the heck up and do his job it would be a different story, but Nooo Mr Media Meglomaniac has to keep running his yap.

Once again in case someone missed it....According to a segment I saw this morning, TO has been thrown to MORE TIMES so far this year, than his first year with the Eagles. Yet he is complaining he needs the ball more.

I tell you this if I was a QB and I seen TO streaking down the sidelines or someone like Jason Witten or Terry Glenn...I am throwing it to Terry or Jason because I would have more faith that they would catch the ball. Kind of hard to trust someone who has sacrificed a few scores and big plays because he has a case of the drops.

This is EXACTLY how I feel...and don't see why any sane person would have a problem with it.

The current situation exemplifies both Owen's and his apologist's behaviors. He claims he doesn't get it enough....his enablers cry right along with him and then.......we are enlightened to the FACT he is indeed getting the looks he so denies are happening.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Clearly, many of the fans on this site, myself included, cannot stand T.O., what he stands for, or the way he conducts himself. Most of us think his stats are fairly empty and he's not the player he used to be, not because of coaching but because he's slipping over-the-hill. On this side of the aisle, we have those who dearly hope T.O. will not be in a Cowboys uniform next season.

On the other side of the aisle, we have those who believe T.O. is indeed still a top receiver in this league, that other defenses actually double team him, and that his TD total and 1000 yards prove he's the best receiver on our team and in the league, and that most of what he says is actually accurate and that he should be listened to.

I don't see either side changing its tune or opinion...clearly, T.O.'s complaints, the spitting incident, and his league leading TD total prove that everyone is deeply entrenched...next season will be determined in the offseason, and while I for one see no way in the world JJ will bring TO back no matter how this season ends, I know I'll never convince any of TO's fans.

Bottom Line: We need T.O. this season...we need TO to get the ball and play big in order for this team to do anything in the postseason...we are not capable of winning a single game without his involvement...even I recognize that.

It's the design of this team...anyone who thinks Crayton or Hurd or Miles Austin are capable of replacing T.O. is just insane...Hurd may have a slight chance someday of being a #2 receiver, but he has a lot of work to do since he can't even get any playing time as the #3. Crayton is what he is...an average #3 guy benefitting sometimes from playing with Glenn, TO, and Witten...a guy who still can't get the job done on a consistent basis.

Yes, we need our defense to step up...we need some changes in the front 7 to win a playoff game, and we need Roy, injured or not, to play like Roy...he needs to show up, whether he gives up something in coverage or not, and we need Zimmer/Parcells to find a clue to get the most out of these guys.

But the bottom line is still that we need the offense to score points, hold the ball, and give the defense some hope and fire. We desperately need Glenn, T.O., Witten, Crayton, and Romo to play big in the postseason...if these guys are together and playing well, it will make the job of the OL easier, and we'll see some running opportunities for our very average RB's (sorry...I let an opinion slip in).

Maybe we won't need him next year if we gather some WR's in the offseason through the draft and Free Agency, but right now, even I, one of the biggest haters of T.O., recognize how much we need him if we are to have any chance of winning a playoff game.

Another strong and straight nail in the wall, Wayne.

I don't see the defensive 'issues' magically clearing up so well that Chicago, Philly, New Orleans, New York, or even Seattle roll over like Detroit should this weekend.

This D ain't 'carrying' anyone.

The O has to win it, or at the very least put up significant numbers to give the team a shot.

That means putting a whole lot on the young shoulders of a young QB, and he is not going to be able to do it unless his veteran skills teammates not just do well, but excel.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Sad thing is, IMO, if T.O. would have just kept his big mouth shut, did not bring negative attention on himself or given the media reason to bash him, Just go out and do his job then none of this would be a problem.

Seriously.

He has put up good numbers, his drops would not be as big of an issue to me if he would not complain about getting the ball more (when I recently saw a stat that shows he has actually been thrown to more times so far this year than his first year with the eagles).

I remember not wanting Keyshawn to be a cowboy, but he came and did his job and for the most part did not make waves or bring attention to himself.

If TO would have came in here, did his job, did not bring attention to himself I would be OK with him right now. But that was not the case. What is even worse that the ESPN agenda, which TO brings on himself, is those that go out of their way to defend his actions.

If the man would just shut the heck up and do his job it would be a different story, but Nooo Mr Media Meglomaniac has to keep running his yap.

Once again in case someone missed it....According to a segment I saw this morning, TO has been thrown to MORE TIMES so far this year, than his first year with the Eagles. Yet he is complaining he needs the ball more.

I tell you this if I was a QB and I seen TO streaking down the sidelines or someone like Jason Witten or Terry Glenn...I am throwing it to Terry or Jason because I would have more faith that they would catch the ball. Kind of hard to trust someone who has sacrificed a few scores and big plays because he has a case of the drops.

Good one, and expresses how I feel perfectly.

Just shut up and catch the ball.

 

[burmafrd]

Not doing more slants with TO is the biggest criticism I can make of the play calling as regards getting him the ball. I would like to see the breakdown on how many passes has been thrown at TO by quarter.

 

[peplaw06]

Another strong and straight nail in the wall, Wayne.

I don't see the defensive 'issues' magically clearing up so well that Chicago, Philly, New Orleans, New York, or even Seattle roll over like Detroit should this weekend.

This D ain't 'carrying' anyone.

The O has to win it, or at the very least put up significant numbers to give the team a shot.

That means putting a whole lot on the young shoulders of a young QB, and he is not going to be able to do it unless his veteran skills teammates not just do well, but excel.

Obviously the D isn't carrying anyone with the way it's playing now. But I think the D CAN carry the team.

If we can hold Indy to 14 points, we can hold Philly, NO, Chicago, Seattle etc. down. It just so happens that was about the best game we had pressuring the QB. Go figure.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Isn't part of his drop off in YAC due to the fact he's not in the WCO anymore? That's what the WCO was built to do, get a WR YAC.

Sure that does fall into the equation.

However when you miss getting large gains and then taking it to the house (throwing bombs and dropping them) it also falls into the equation.

Also consider this.

In the WCO they use more passing than running, so in effect they substitute the short pass for a run play.

However as I noted, he has MORE receptions this year so far than he had with his first year in Philly. So he IS getting the same amount, or more, catches than he was getting in a WCO.

He is two TDs shy of matching his TD numbers his first year in Philly (WCO) as well. IF he would not be dropping some of those balls that would clearly have resulted in TDs he would have even more TDs, Catches and Yards.

So in essence he is complaining about not getting the ball enough but he is actually getting the ball more than he did his first year in philly.

 

[peplaw06]

Sure that does fall into the equation.

However when you miss getting large gains and then taking it to the house (throwing bombs and dropping them) it also falls into the equation.

Also consider this.

In the WCO they use more passing than running, so in effect they substitute the short pass for a run play.

However as I noted, he has MORE receptions this year so far than he had with his first year in Philly. So he IS getting the same amount, or more, catches than he was getting in a WCO.

He is two TDs shy of matching his TD numbers his first year in Philly (WCO) as well. IF he would not be dropping some of those balls that would clearly have resulted in TDs he would have even more TDs, Catches and Yards.

So in essence he is complaining about not getting the ball enough but he is actually getting the ball more than he did his first year in philly.

Yeah I'm in agreement BP... I saw the stats you were talking about TO with Philly vs. Dallas in his first years. He had like 10-15 more catches in Philly, 2 more TDs, but fewer targets.

The stats would be almost identical (with more targets) if he didn't have 11 more drops. He had 3 in his first 15 games in Philly... 3!!

3 drops in Dallas (depending on the ones he dropped) and there's no complaints about his play, and probably no crying from him about getting more looks. He would be in the pro bowl too.

I was only saying I didn't think the YAC was a very good way to compare b/c of the different offenses.

 

[superpunk]

Isn't part of his drop off in YAC due to the fact he's not in the WCO anymore? That's what the WCO was built to do, get a WR YAC.

We do get him in the ball in typical WCO situations. The WR screens, the curls, running him across the field shallow. He just doesn't seem to do as much with those chances that he does get, for YAC opportunities.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

We do get him in the ball in typical WCO situations. The WR screens, the curls, running him across the field shallow. He just doesn't seem to do as much with those chances that he does get, for YAC opportunities.

Well to be fair to Peplaws point, we WERE getting him in those situations on a regular basis.

My memory may be fuzzy but I have not seen them using him that way for the past few weeks.

I am wondering if they altered that due to his hand injury, less contact with go routes and such instead of going over the middle.

 

[peplaw06]

We do get him in the ball in typical WCO situations. The WR screens, the curls, running him across the field shallow. He just doesn't seem to do as much with those chances that he does get, for YAC opportunities.

Sure we run some of the WCO routes some of the time, but IMO he trived in the WCO because he was running those routes every play. You can't get one WR the ball on every play. But the more they run a certain route, the odds go up there will be a screw up in coverage etc.

And here's where my lack of knowledge about the WCO vs. our offense may show. But i would think that if you have 3-4 WRs running WCO routes, the field may open up a bit more. As opposed to having 2 WRs and a TE running routes. the TE will pull a LB or safety, not a 3rd or 4th CB. If you get CBs running around back there it would be easier to get YAC than if you had LBs pulled away from the LOS by a TE. Make sense?

And we've been throwing to TO on straight go routes or fade routes a LOT lately. That's where most of his drops have come from, at least the ones that stand out most in my mind. Not really WCO specific routes...

 

[LaTunaNostra]

We do get him in the ball in typical WCO situations. The WR screens, the curls, running him across the field shallow. He just doesn't seem to do as much with those chances that he does get, for YAC opportunities.

Could you, like, put that in 200 size font and nail it to the banner here?


I am SOOOO tired of reading the coaching staff is sabotaging us with "no quick slants".

 

[superpunk]

Sure we run some of the WCO routes some of the time, but IMO he trived in the WCO because he was running those routes every play. You can't get one WR the ball on every play. But the more they run a certain route, the odds go up there will be a screw up in coverage etc.

And here's where my lack of knowledge about the WCO vs. our offense may show. But i would think that if you have 3-4 WRs running WCO routes, the field may open up a bit more. As opposed to having 2 WRs and a TE running routes. the TE will pull a LB or safety, not a 3rd or 4th CB. If you get CBs running around back there it would be easier to get YAC than if you had LBs pulled away from the LOS by a TE. Make sense?

And we've been throwing to TO on straight go routes or fade routes a LOT lately. That's where most of his drops have come from, at least the ones that stand out most in my mind. Not really WCO specific routes...

Maybe it would help him get into a rythm. But we have thrown him plenty of short stuff - he's not doing much with it. For example - 54 of Owens' 79 catches this year have come on balls that were thrown behind the line, or under 10 yards. He has 467 yards on a 8.6 yard average. His long is 25 yards. IMO, we have been running more west coast style with Tony in there, altho that's probably more Tony's execution than anything else.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Maybe it would help him get into a rythm. But we have thrown him plenty of short stuff - he's not doing much with it. For example - 54 of Owens' 79 catches this year have come on balls that were thrown behind the line, or under 10 yards. He has 467 yards on a 8.6 yard average. His long is 25 yards. IMO, we have been running more west coast style with Tony in there, altho that's probably more Tony's execution than anything else.

I don't have the stats, but have those numbers (short yard or behind the LOS) dropped a considerable amount in the last 2-3 weeks?

 

[superpunk]

I don't have the stats, but have those numbers (short yard or behind the LOS) dropped a considerable amount in the last 2-3 weeks?

I can't find anything with it broken down that far.

 

[peplaw06]

I don't have the stats, but have those numbers (short yard or behind the LOS) dropped a considerable amount in the last 2-3 weeks?

And does someone have the YAC stats to compare? It seems like he's dropped off in YAC for sure, but maybe the numbers will give some perspective.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

I can't find anything with it broken down that far.

I guess it's easy enough to find on the play by plays at the NFL.com's game day reports. The yardage is always included, and typically the type of pass.