Amanda Knox not guilty

[yimyammer]

Pretty much confirming what I thought -- I spoke with an attorney at work today that spent quite a bit of time in Italy, and she said that she had two takeaways from Italy.

1. she never wanted to fall down on the sidewalk, for fear of getting an infection (apparently it's filthy), and;

2. she never wanted to get wrapped up in their criminal justice system, because it's corrupt as hell.

I wish she would chime in on the thread I linked, the pro guilters know so much I have no response or can't figure out how to prove or disprove their assertions

Did she follow the case closely? Did she read the Massei report?

 

[speedkilz88]

I'm pretty knowledgeable on this case and she indeed was railroaded. People need to understand that the Italian court system is extremely flawed and the first court trial compares more to a grand jury in the U.S. A high number are overturned in the appeal process. I've read as that it's around 50%.

The prosecution puts on a case that pretty much goes unquestioned with the defense having thier hands tied. The original judge/judges just excepted whatever Mignini claimed who introduced a ridiculous story. Mignini has a reputation for being a lunatic who will accuse anyone and everyone of crimes with satanic type stories and launches witch hunts. Which he did in his previous case to this one called the Monster In Florence a serial killer that was never caught but Mignini indicted around 20 people over the years who were all innocent, including a couple of journalist who were covering how badly the police were handling the case.

One journalist had a similar story to Amanda Knox where he was threatened for two hours and accused of the crime.

A lot of people are hung up on why she falsely accused Patrick Lamumba of the crime. But they need to understand that the police thought he was part of the crime due to a cell phone text on Amanda's phone and when she later met him.(I've also read that they had an african hair at the crime scene also) They grilled her one night and claimed they had evidence that she was there and that Patrick killed Meredith. They even went as far to say she just didn't remember due to being traumatized and smoking pot that night and that she just needed to "imagine" being there. She also says they hit her. (Lamumba also claimed that they beat him when he was released.) This was also done through an interpreter since she was not fluent in Italian at that time. They produced no recording and she was not represented by a lawyer. She was a naive 20 year old that trusted the police and wanted to help find the killer of her friend and she was broken and coerced. This is not all that common. It happens.

There was also a lot of untrue things that police released to the media/tabloids that are still today claimed as the truth by the so called guilters.

It's pretty cut and dried that Rudy Guede broke in to the house to rob them while it was empty. Meredith came home and he grabbed her and we know the rest of that story. Rudy later that night ended up at a disco and then fled the country.

 

[kristie]

I'm pretty knowledgeable on this case and she indeed was railroaded. People need to understand that the Italian court system is extremely flawed and the first court trial compares more to a grand jury in the U.S. A high number are overturned in the appeal process. I've read as that it's around 50%.

The prosecution puts on a case that pretty much goes unquestioned with the defense having thier hands tied. The original judge/judges just excepted whatever Mignini claimed who introduced a ridiculous story. Mignini has a reputation for being a lunatic who will accuse anyone and everyone of crimes with satanic type stories and launches witch hunts. Which he did in his previous case to this one called the Monster In Florence a serial killer that was never caught but Mignini indicted around 20 people over the years who were all innocent, including a couple of journalist who were covering how badly the police were handling the case.

One journalist had a similar story to Amanda Knox where he was threatened for two hours and accused of the crime.

A lot of people are hung up on why she falsely accused Patrick Lamumba of the crime. But they need to understand that the police thought he was part of the crime due to a cell phone text on Amanda's phone and when she later met him.(I've also read that they had an african hair at the crime scene also) They grilled her one night and claimed they had evidence that she was there and that Patrick killed Meredith. They even went as far to say she just didn't remember due to being traumatized and smoking pot that night and that she just needed to "imagine" being there. She also says they hit her. (Lamumba also claimed that they beat him when he was released.) This was also done through an interpreter since she was not fluent in Italian at that time. They produced no recording and she was not represented by a lawyer. She was a naive 20 year old that trusted the police and wanted to help find the killer of her friend and she was broken and coerced. This is not all that common. It happens.

There was also a lot of untrue things that police released to the media/tabloids that are still today claimed as the truth by the so called guilters.

It's pretty cut and dried that Rudy Guede broke in to the house to rob them while it was empty. Meredith came home and he grabbed her and we know the rest of that story. Rudy later that night ended up at a disco and then fled the country.

wow!!

that makes sense to me because what the prosecutor did seemed very fishy to me.

 

[speedkilz88]

I forgot to add that the prosecutor Mignini has been convicted of abuse of powers already for his actions in the Monster of Florence case and is appealing to the Supreme Court. He was technically given 16 months but it's been reported that it would be set aside and he would just be barred from holding a position in the government ever again.

 

[speedkilz88]

48 HRS Special 10/8/11

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7383976n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

 

[kristie]

I forgot to add that the prosecutor Mignini has been convicted of abuse of powers already for his actions in the Monster of Florence case and is appealing to the Supreme Court. He was technically given 16 months but it's been reported that it would be set aside and he would just be barred from holding a position in the government ever again.

i hope he gets disbarred.

 

[yimyammer]

I'm pretty knowledgeable on this case and she indeed was railroaded. People need to understand that the Italian court system is extremely flawed and the first court trial compares more to a grand jury in the U.S. A high number are overturned in the appeal process. I've read as that it's around 50%.

The prosecution puts on a case that pretty much goes unquestioned with the defense having thier hands tied. The original judge/judges just excepted whatever Mignini claimed who introduced a ridiculous story. Mignini has a reputation for being a lunatic who will accuse anyone and everyone of crimes with satanic type stories and launches witch hunts. Which he did in his previous case to this one called the Monster In Florence a serial killer that was never caught but Mignini indicted around 20 people over the years who were all innocent, including a couple of journalist who were covering how badly the police were handling the case.

One journalist had a similar story to Amanda Knox where he was threatened for two hours and accused of the crime.

A lot of people are hung up on why she falsely accused Patrick Lamumba of the crime. But they need to understand that the police thought he was part of the crime due to a cell phone text on Amanda's phone and when she later met him.(I've also read that they had an african hair at the crime scene also) They grilled her one night and claimed they had evidence that she was there and that Patrick killed Meredith. They even went as far to say she just didn't remember due to being traumatized and smoking pot that night and that she just needed to "imagine" being there. She also says they hit her. (Lamumba also claimed that they beat him when he was released.) This was also done through an interpreter since she was not fluent in Italian at that time. They produced no recording and she was not represented by a lawyer. She was a naive 20 year old that trusted the police and wanted to help find the killer of her friend and she was broken and coerced. This is not all that common. It happens.

There was also a lot of untrue things that police released to the media/tabloids that are still today claimed as the truth by the so called guilters.

It's pretty cut and dried that Rudy Guede broke in to the house to rob them while it was empty. Meredith came home and he grabbed her and we know the rest of that story. Rudy later that night ended up at a disco and then fled the country.

How did you become informed about the case?

Come chime in at the forum I've been following and get ready to have your head explode as they dismiss just about every point you made (I'm not saying they're correct).

The primary issues that I am trying to determine the validity of are:

1. Meredith Kerche's DNA on the knife at Raffaele Sollecitos
2. Raffaele Sollecito's DNA on the bra clasp
3. Bloody footprint on the bathmat that is said to be Raffaele Sollecito right foot only, no other prints are found which leads to the belief the crime scene was cleaned up)
4. Luminol footprints of Amanda (?) leading from Meredith's body to Amanda's room
5. Mixed blood/DNA of Amanda and Meredith throughout the house
6. Shoe print under the pillow that is purported to be a woman's shoe the size of Amanda Knox
7. Purported clean up of the crime scene which leads to the idea that the crime was committed by multiple parties, AK & Raffaele Sollecito in particular because they, not Rudy, would have a reason to hide their involvement

I don't know the case well enough to counter the pro guilt's assertions. They claim, despite what the press has presented, that #1 & #2 were not thrown out in the appeal.

There's a hell of a lot of "noise" in this case and the media doesn't appear to have addressed the case honestly from both sides, so I'm having trouble divining the truth among all the assertions.

Come on over and join the party, most of the people that argue Knox's innocence act like nut jobs and lose all credibility, so a well spoken & knowledgeable poser would be a welcomed addition.

 

[speedkilz88]

How did you become informed about the case?

Come chime in at the forum I've been following and get ready to have your head explode as they dismiss just about every point you made (I'm not saying they're correct).

The primary issues that I am trying to determine the validity of are:

1. Meredith Kerche's DNA on the knife at Raffaele Sollecitos
2. Raffaele Sollecito's DNA on the bra clasp
3. Bloody footprint on the bathmat that is said to be Raffaele Sollecito right foot only, no other prints are found which leads to the belief the crime scene was cleaned up)
4. Luminol footprints of Amanda (?) leading from Meredith's body to Amanda's room
5. Mixed blood/DNA of Amanda and Meredith throughout the house
6. Shoe print under the pillow that is purported to be a woman's shoe the size of Amanda Knox
7. Purported clean up of the crime scene which leads to the idea that the crime was committed by multiple parties, AK & Raffaele Sollecito in particular because they, not Rudy, would have a reason to hide their involvement

I don't know the case well enough to counter the pro guilt's assertions. They claim, despite what the press has presented, that #1 & #2 were not thrown out in the appeal.

There's a hell of a lot of "noise" in this case and the media doesn't appear to have addressed the case honestly from both sides, so I'm having trouble divining the truth among all the assertions.

Come on over and join the party, most of the people that argue Knox's innocence act like nut jobs and lose all credibility, so a well spoken & knowledgeable poser would be a welcomed addition.

#1 and #2 were definitely thrown out in the appeal because of the C&V report and testimony.

There was little to no dna or more importantly blood found on the knife. The crime scene investigator Stefanoni broke protocol and magnified the machine way past what it is intended to come up with something linking Amanda to Meredith's death.

(When this is done the machine picks up any and all dna that's been in the machine, which included Meredith's blood from the crime scene and explains the result.) This is not accepted by anyone that does dna and would have never been allowed in a us court. It was just too small a sample or didn't exist at all, the latter being likely. Not to mention that the knife didn't match the blood outline of the murder weapon at the crime scene and it wouldn't have made all the wounds. Which is why the prosecution had to make up the second knife scenario. It also didn't test positive for blood, kind of a must if you need it to be the murder weapon. It was also randomly picked by the police and was the only knife tested out of all those in the girl's apartment and Rafael's apartment. Kind of suspicious don't you think?

Bra clasp wasn't found until they went back in months later. Coincidentally the day after Rafael's father went on tv and shot down the previous evidence that supposedly linked Rafael to the crime. Two of several bloody footprints found in the murder room were originally linked to Amanda and Rafael by the prosecution. But those prints ended up being partials that were from the same shoe that left the others. A nike pair that Rudy Guede still had the box for in his apartment. The shoes though were never found, most likely dumped in Germany.

Back to the bra clasp, the police's own video showed where the clasp had been touched and passed around with dirty gloves and then put back on the floor which is a contamination no no. They ended up having several dna profiles mixed together according to C & V and Stafanoni cherry picked the ones she needed to link Rafael to the crime. C & V said that she could have found her own dna or even the judges dna in the sample by cherry picking also.

On the bloody footprint on the bathmat. I can tell you that the prosecution says it's Rafael's footprint. Footprints aren't like fingerprints, so there is no concrete science to prove one way or the other. But just looking at it, it appears to match Rudy moreso than Rafael who has the hammer toe. I know that the prosecution tries to say that it measures to be like Rafael's but I don't think there is anyone that can identify by size its very easy for a print to be just a partial which is going to make the size smaller. Also how could it have gotten there if its Rafael's? There is no evidence he was even in the room so how did he get in the bathroom and then all of a sudden leave a bloody print? Makes more sense that the guy that was bloody was Rudy and it's his print.

The bathroom sink is the only place where Meredith's blood and Amanda's dna is found together. It's perfectly normal for Amanda's dna to be in her own sink where she brushes her teeth etc. Rudy washed Meredith's blood in that sink and that's how you get mixed dna samples. There is even police video tape where the crime scene investigator makes large sweeps for their samples in that sink which increased the chances of mixed dna. There was also some dried blood drops of Amanda's found on the faucet which were likely from her pierced ear prior to the murder. There were never any signs of cuts on Amanda or Rafael. There were no signs of a clean up. If bleach is used in a clean up it still lights up with luminol in the wipe spot. Rafael's housekeeper said that the bleach in his home was still the same from when she last used it also.

There was a dna blob found in Filomena's room or outside it. This contained dna not blood of Meredith, Amanda, and others not tested. Most likely the other roomates. It's totally normal they live there and shed skin cells and have saliva and hairs etc.

The luminol prints were in the hallway, they were not leading from the body or Meredith's room. Luminol lights up to many things including bleach but also cleaners that contain bleach or other chemicals. Those prints weren't necessarily Amanda's, they could have been any of the girls and could have been from someone walking out of the shower that had been cleaned recently. There is nothing to show that they were even connected to the murder. They were tested and were either negative for blood or didn't contain dna.

I already covered it but the print was another partial of Rudy Guede's nike shoes that had a circular pattern. Since a partial is smaller the prosecution tried to link them to Amanda and Rafael.

There were no signs of clean up. To clean up blood you need bleach, bleach lights up luminol. It's also impossible for two people to be involved in what was a very bloody crime to clean up every bit of blood and leave none of their dna, fingerprints, or hair and not injured themselves and yet leave plenty of everything of Rudy Guede, who did leave plenty of dna, hair, fingerprints at the scene. This why the defense attorney even mentioned that they had magic soap. I guess it was a good thing that Amanda was a witch.

If you don't know already. Injustice in perugia has all the information and pictures that explain things. Included is a former FBI agent Steve Moore who also has a blog. Moore isn't the only expert from the US convinced that they are innocent.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/

http://gmancasefile.blogspot.com/2011/10/amanda-knox-innocent-girl-finally-goes.html

 

[speedkilz88]

Oh, and no thanks on the offer to argue on that board. lol

I've read the arguments in Injustice in Perugia, JREF, a PMF that split into two sites that only accept the guilter's side and bans everyone else. It would drive me insane to argue with them. Makes the arguments on this board seem perfectly normal and serene.

 

[yimyammer]

#1 and #2 were definitely thrown out in the appeal because of the C&V report and testimony.

There was little to no dna or more importantly blood found on the knife. The crime scene investigator Stefanoni broke protocol and magnified the machine way past what it is intended to come up with something linking Amanda to Meredith's death.

(When this is done the machine picks up any and all dna that's been in the machine, which included Meredith's blood from the crime scene and explains the result.) This is not accepted by anyone that does dna and would have never been allowed in a us court. It was just too small a sample or didn't exist at all, the latter being likely. Not to mention that the knife didn't match the blood outline of the murder weapon at the crime scene and it wouldn't have made all the wounds. Which is why the prosecution had to make up the second knife scenario. It also didn't test positive for blood, kind of a must if you need it to be the murder weapon. It was also randomly picked by the police and was the only knife tested out of all those in the girl's apartment and Rafael's apartment. Kind of suspicious don't you think?

Bra clasp wasn't found until they went back in months later. Coincidentally the day after Rafael's father went on tv and shot down the previous evidence that supposedly linked Rafael to the crime. Two of several bloody footprints found in the murder room were originally linked to Amanda and Rafael by the prosecution. But those prints ended up being partials that were from the same shoe that left the others. A nike pair that Rudy Guede still had the box for in his apartment. The shoes though were never found, most likely dumped in Germany.

Back to the bra clasp, the police's own video showed where the clasp had been touched and passed around with dirty gloves and then put back on the floor which is a contamination no no. They ended up having several dna profiles mixed together according to C & V and Stafanoni cherry picked the ones she needed to link Rafael to the crime. C & V said that she could have found her own dna or even the judges dna in the sample by cherry picking also.

On the bloody footprint on the bathmat. I can tell you that the prosecution says it's Rafael's footprint. Footprints aren't like fingerprints, so there is no concrete science to prove one way or the other. But just looking at it, it appears to match Rudy moreso than Rafael who has the hammer toe. I know that the prosecution tries to say that it measures to be like Rafael's but I don't think there is anyone that can identify by size its very easy for a print to be just a partial which is going to make the size smaller. Also how could it have gotten there if its Rafael's? There is no evidence he was even in the room so how did he get in the bathroom and then all of a sudden leave a bloody print? Makes more sense that the guy that was bloody was Rudy and it's his print.

The bathroom sink is the only place where Meredith's blood and Amanda's dna is found together. It's perfectly normal for Amanda's dna to be in her own sink where she brushes her teeth etc. Rudy washed Meredith's blood in that sink and that's how you get mixed dna samples. There is even police video tape where the crime scene investigator makes large sweeps for their samples in that sink which increased the chances of mixed dna. There was also some dried blood drops of Amanda's found on the faucet which were likely from her pierced ear prior to the murder. There were never any signs of cuts on Amanda or Rafael. There were no signs of a clean up. If bleach is used in a clean up it still lights up with luminol in the wipe spot. Rafael's housekeeper said that the bleach in his home was still the same from when she last used it also.

There was a dna blob found in Filomena's room or outside it. This contained dna not blood of Meredith, Amanda, and others not tested. Most likely the other roomates. It's totally normal they live there and shed skin cells and have saliva and hairs etc.

The luminol prints were in the hallway, they were not leading from the body or Meredith's room. Luminol lights up to many things including bleach but also cleaners that contain bleach or other chemicals. Those prints weren't necessarily Amanda's, they could have been any of the girls and could have been from someone walking out of the shower that had been cleaned recently. There is nothing to show that they were even connected to the murder. They were tested and were either negative for blood or didn't contain dna.

I already covered it but the print was another partial of Rudy Guede's nike shoes that had a circular pattern. Since a partial is smaller the prosecution tried to link them to Amanda and Rafael.

There were no signs of clean up. To clean up blood you need bleach, bleach lights up luminol. It's also impossible for two people to be involved in what was a very bloody crime to clean up every bit of blood and leave none of their dna, fingerprints, or hair and not injured themselves and yet leave plenty of everything of Rudy Guede, who did leave plenty of dna, hair, fingerprints at the scene. This why the defense attorney even mentioned that they had magic soap. I guess it was a good thing that Amanda was a witch.

If you don't know already. Injustice in perugia has all the information and pictures that explain things. Included is a former FBI agent Steve Moore who also has a blog. Moore isn't the only expert from the US convinced that they are innocent.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/

http://gmancasefile.blogspot.com/2011/10/amanda-knox-innocent-girl-finally-goes.html

I'm aware of the injusticeinperugia site, but not the other

Are you following any sites that aren't pro Amanda? I've been trying to justify her innocence using anti-Amanda sites and the Massei report or uncorrupted evidence like the transcript of Rudy Guedes Skype conversation so the pro-guilt crowd can't say I'm using biased sources.

Just so you know, I'm not arguing that she is guilty. I listed the points that are being made on the site I'm following that I am trying to accept or rebut. I'm not trying to debate with you, I sincerely just want to know WTH the truth is. I'd love for you to post this response at the forum I'm involved with so you can see how they respond and I can can see how you respond in kind.

Do you have any background in law, DNA analysis, forensics or do you have a special understanding of how the law and courts work in Italy?

 

[yimyammer]

Oh, and no thanks on the offer to argue on that board. lol

I've read the arguments in Injustice in Perugia, JREF, a PMF that split into two sites that only accept the guilter's side and bans everyone else. It would drive me insane to argue with them. Makes the arguments on this board seem perfectly normal and serene.

just saw this after I replied. Too bad, because the discussion is pretty civil except for the occasional wacko A lot of people like myself are truly trying to make sense of the case but we aren't as knowledgeable as one pro-guilt member that is able to reply in detail.

People rarely, if ever, get banned and the discussion has been pretty good and open minded (weak attempt to get you to change your mind?)

 

[yimyammer]

Oh, and no thanks on the offer to argue on that board. lol


I've read the arguments in Injustice in Perugia, JREF, a PMF that split into two sites that only accept the guilter's side and bans everyone else. It would drive me insane to argue with them. Makes the arguments on this board seem perfectly normal and serene.

PS

It's crazy how "certain" and dogmatic people get with their stance. I don't see how anyone with an open mind can't help but be scratching their head a little regardless of which side they land on. It's impossible to prove historical events with 100% certainty, yet some people believe they can.

I'm aware of the others but what is PMF?

 

[yimyammer]

PSS

I'm not deliberately ignoring your well thought out reply, I just don't want to double my efforts by replying here as well as there.

I'm looking for reliable sources to back up my responses, I have similar beliefs as what you have mentioned but I am trying to find translated copies of DNA reports and any other uninfluenced source documents to back up any response I make.

There seems to be some doubt over the reliability of the FBI agent you mentioned as well as the sites you mentioned which just opens up another debate which is why I am trying to utilize their sources to make a counter argument.

I think one of the big problems with this case is that it's in Italian and we cannot easily get access to translated court documents to substantiate an argument.

 

[speedkilz88]

PS

It's crazy how "certain" and dogmatic people get with their stance. I don't see how anyone with an open mind can't help but be scratching their head a little regardless of which side they land on. It's impossible to prove historical events with 100% certainty, yet some people believe they can.

I'm aware of the others but what is PMF?

Perusian Murder File


http://perugiamurderfile.org/index.php

http://perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=344

 

[speedkilz88]

I'm aware of the injusticeinperugia site, but not the other

Are you following any sites that aren't pro Amanda? I've been trying to justify her innocence using anti-Amanda sites and the Massei report or uncorrupted evidence like the transcript of Rudy Guedes Skype conversation so the pro-guilt crowd can't say I'm using biased sources.

Just so you know, I'm not arguing that she is guilty. I listed the points that are being made on the site I'm following that I am trying to accept or rebut. I'm not trying to debate with you, I sincerely just want to know WTH the truth is. I'd love for you to post this response at the forum I'm involved with so you can see how they respond and I can can see how you respond in kind.

Do you have any background in law, DNA analysis, forensics or do you have a special understanding of how the law and courts work in Italy?

PMF is the most anti Amanda site there is from what I've read. I haven't read too much though because I just don't give them any credit of using common sense and weighing the evidence given. I read where they shot down that the break in was real where they claim Spider-Man would have to have done it. I've seen the pictures, I'm a tall, skinny 40 year old who could still make that climb. It would be no problem for Guede especially being experienced in doing those type of break in's in his past.

The other sites may be more pro Amanda but they have both, some of the PMFers go to it under different names sometime the same. Some of the Pro ones were originally buying the prosecution's story in 2007 but switched once they saw the lack of evidence and lies put out by the prosecution.

To me this is an easy one if anyone just uses common sense and follows the evidence. The problem is Mignini focuses on the suspect and then produces the evidence he needs to convict them. The C & V report pretty much slam dunks the pro Amanda(and Rafael) side.

Also I'm a conservative that is pro death penalty and wants criminals to pay for what they've done. And guilters like to make stupid remarks that the pro guilters are men who are in love with her. I don't think she's all that cute myself. Certainly not the beauty the Italians paint her to be anyway. I just don't like to see justice not served. If I thought Amanda and Rafael did it I would want them to pay. I just think it's pretty obvious that Rudy did it alone and they just happened to have the bad luck of coming across the path of Mignini.

 

[yimyammer]

PMF is the most anti Amanda site there is from what I've read. I haven't read too much though because I just don't give them any credit of using common sense and weighing the evidence given. I read where they shot down that the break in was real where they claim Spider-Man would have to have done it. I've seen the pictures, I'm a tall, skinny 40 year old who could still make that climb. It would be no problem for Guede especially being experienced in doing those type of break in's in his past.

The other sites may be more pro Amanda but they have both, some of the PMFers go to it under different names sometime the same. Some of the Pro ones were originally buying the prosecution's story in 2007 but switched once they saw the lack of evidence and lies put out by the prosecution.

To me this is an easy one if anyone just uses common sense and follows the evidence. The problem is Mignini focuses on the suspect and then produces the evidence he needs to convict them. The C & V report pretty much slam dunks the pro Amanda(and Rafael) side.

Also I'm a conservative that is pro death penalty and wants criminals to pay for what they've done. And guilters like to make stupid remarks that the pro guilters are men who are in love with her. I don't think she's all that cute myself. Certainly not the beauty the Italians paint her to be anyway. I just don't like to see justice not served. If I thought Amanda and Rafael did it I would want them to pay. I just think it's pretty obvious that Rudy did it alone and they just happened to have the bad luck of coming across the path of Mignini.

OK, I know that site and go there for photos and crime scene stuff. I tried to follow some guys post about how the rock couldn't have broken the glass in the window because it wasn't the correct size when juxtaposed against the glass. I am amazed at the extent to which some people go in analyzing aspects of this case.

Re: the Break-in:

I haven't seen a good shot of the window to know how far it is off the ground, but I know he had done something similar in the past, was young and athletic, so I can't imagine it would be impossible.

They argue that Rudy wouldn't have chosen that window because its more visible from the road and it would have been easier to just break the window on the front porch by the front door vs this one. He didn't leave any scuffs on the wall, DNA, blood or fingerprints or scuffs on the sill as he entered through the window. He would have had to climb up twice (1st time to open the shutters, 2nd time after breaking the window with a rock), then they say the glass was on top of clothes and the room was clean when Filomena left, so all in all, its obviously a staged break-in.

I don't know how to respond to this; what do you say?

Back to my reply:

I've thought from the outset it was an open and shut case that Rudy did it by himself before I was introduced to all this other stuff. I still believe he did it by himself and was thrilled she won her appeal but I haven't been able to articulate a counter to many of their points.

Do you have a good source that backs it up with solid evidence the following:

1. Something that proves convincingly that the print in the bathroom is not Rafs

2. That there wasn't a clean up

The people I've discused this case with that believe AK/Raf did this seem to always look at everything through the prism of guilt and therefore the only logical explanation for every piece of circumstantial evidence is one that stitches it all seamlessly into a guilty verdict and it just feels too damn complex for me to believe.

I don't care what the truth is, I'd just like to find it!

 

[speedkilz88]

The problem is that this kind of evidence is always going to be based on opinion. So I think it's useless to argue over the footprints because they just aren't the same as finger prints. And when an expert gives opinion like the former FBI agent Steve Moore, FBI profiler John Douglas and forensic biologist Greg Hampikian and they aren't considered reliable by the guilters. Then they just aren't ever going to be convinced. Then add they don't even believe that C & V also discredited the DNA evidence even after the decision, it's just a wast of time.

I think Rudy being experienced wouldn't necessarily leave a scuff mark, but the biggest problem was that the prosecution/police weren't looking for evidence of a break in since they believed it was staged from the beginning. They had their sites on Amanda, Rafael, and Patrick from the beginning and that's how people get railroaded.

When Hellman releases his report I think he will shoot down a lot of the so called evidence. But the dna evidence which was not real was always what the case hinged on. Since they needed to place Amanda and Rafael in the room with Meredith.

 

[yimyammer]

The problem is that this kind of evidence is always going to be based on opinion. So I think it's useless to argue over the footprints because they just aren't the same as finger prints. And when an expert gives opinion like the former FBI agent Steve Moore, FBI profiler John Douglas and forensic biologist Greg Hampikian and they aren't considered reliable by the guilters. Then they just aren't ever going to be convinced. Then add they don't even believe that C & V also discredited the DNA evidence even after the decision, it's just a wast of time.

I think Rudy being experienced wouldn't necessarily leave a scuff mark, but the biggest problem was that the prosecution/police weren't looking for evidence of a break in since they believed it was staged from the beginning. They had their sites on Amanda, Rafael, and Patrick from the beginning and that's how people get railroaded.

When Hellman releases his report I think he will shoot down a lot of the so called evidence. But the dna evidence which was not real was always what the case hinged on. Since they needed to place Amanda and Rafael in the room with Meredith.

I'm not trying convince anyone but myself. One of the posters stated he was 99.99999% certain of her guilt. He lost me the minute he claimed such certainty, arrogance beyond belief. No point in ever trying to convince someone like this of anything

When I look at the footprints, I think: can they really convict someone based on these murky footprints?

One thing that perplexes me about the footprints is the one on the bathmat: why is there only one right bare foot print? Regardless of who's it is, what just happened here? It's hard to argue that a clean-up didn't take place when I consider this single print. So if there was a clean-up, who did it and why?

How can we know whether they did or didn't investigate the exterior of the broken window? Seems like they would look at the outside to prove it was staged as well.

I don't think being experienced has any effect on being able to control whether you would leave scuff marks, unless he was savvy enough to find shoes with soles that cant scuff (I don't have any idea how one would do this). By all appearances, entering through Filomena's window would require jumping up and grabbing hold of the window sill. In the process of pulling yourself up, your body will naturally drag across the surface of the exterior wall and it would be a reflex to attempt to use your feet in a climbing motion to pull yourself up. Having said this, I don't believe absence of scuff marks means that wasn't the entry point, so once again we have a "depending how you look at it" scenario.

I look forward to Hellman's report as well. Of course, the guilters are already dismissing the judge as an idiot who's already backtracked on his verdict and he shouldn't have been on the case because he is a business judge, etc, etc

like I said, its like trying to discuss religion or politics

 

[yimyammer]

The problem is that this kind of evidence is always going to be based on opinion. .

Here's a sample post a pro-guilter made that I have no idea how to reply to or what to think, how would you respond to this?

That is the thing for the most part we have focused on bigger evidence but the list of smaller acts that also contribute to their guilt hasn't even started to be discussed.

How did Raf know that nothing has been stolen from the room?

In his call to the police Raf said "No, there has been no theft" which is pretty strange and really only something Filomena or the person who staged it would know.

Lying about the habit of locking door

This was in Luca Altieri's testimony. He is a friend of Marco Zaroli who was Filomena's boyfriend. Upon being brought up to speed and told about the situation someone asked is it normal for Meredith to lock her door?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Massie 93
I believe it was one of the officers of the postal police that said there was a locked room and Amanda said however that Meredith was in the habit of locking the bedroom even to go to the shower and this reassured us‛
When Marco took the stand he said the same thing. It was only when Filomena arrived that she said no she never locks her door that they decided to break the door down. In testimony both Filomena and Laura testified that Meredith had never locked her door once the entire time they lived together except for when she returned to the UK to visit family.

By the time Amanda wrote her e-mail that outlined the events of that day she had changed her view on the locked door claiming that when she found the door locked it was very alarming to her. That she ran to her room to hang out over the terrace to see if she could see anything while Raf tried to break down the door but failed.

Despite including this in her e-mail Battistelli and Marzi (the postal police) both testified that Amanda had not initially mentioned the locked door until some time after their arrival. If Amanda was so panicked as her e-mail claims that would have been the first thing she mentioned.

Further, she also did not mention the locked door in the phone conversation with Filomena and it was Filomena who first inquired about Meredith.

Amanda's Lamp in Victim's room

Amanda claims to have not noticed that a lamp was missing from her room. This lamp was the only light source in Amanda's room since her lights did not work. She explains that away as it was bright enough to get dressed by natural light so she did. She also claims that she was mostly concerned about her computer so also did not notice the lamp missing when she checked her room after discovering the B&E.

The lamp was in the victim's room set on the floor. Likewise the victim's lamp was also removed from her bedstand and on the floor. The only explanation was that someone (most likely two people) were using the lamps as directed light source during the clean up. There is no other plausible explanation for why Meredith's lamp was moved and why Amanda's was in the room.

Lying about trying the door

When Filomena arrived the panic went off because he locked door was so abnormal. Postal Police can not destroy personal property so they asked that the door be opened. Luca opened it easily.

Amanda would latter claim that when the door was locked they panicked and that Raf tried to knock it down but failed to. There was no evidence of this nor did they ask the postal police to try to knock it down when they arrived.

The 12:47 pm call to Mom

Amanda calls her mom at 12:47pm which is 15 minutes before Luca knocks down the door. Originally the mom reports that conversation as having been told stuff by Amanda that she could only have known if she knew what was in the room.

Amanda omits this call completely from her e-mail where she sets out the narrative. At first her Mom insists it happened but Amanda tells her it didn't and after a little back and forth the Mom changes her story and claims she was confused. They can't deny the call happened since there is a phone record of it but they change the content.

After the door was broken down the Postal Police cleared the house to wait for the real police. Amanda and Raf never got to see into the room yet she would later have information that only someone who was in the room would have.

Weird Behaviour

Weakest of the stuff around the 45 minutes when the postal police arrived and the body was found but not yet discussed is that when Marco and Luca arrive Amanda and Raf disappear into Amanda's room and leave the two boys alone with the postal police. That is rather strange. Based on the time this was when they fake called the police. They also most likely tried to come up with a unified story to stick to.

When Luca was asked to open the door Raf and Amanda went to the kitchen. ***? None of the other people left the hallway including some girl that arrived with Filomena. The behaviour is strange but the important aspect is that it places them in a different room and so unable to see into the victim's room. The postal police cleared the house and no one was allowed in after that yet later Amanda would have details that only someone who saw the room would know.

----------------

There is actually more stuff like this but it is better to be introduced to the evidence slowly. The reason people who know the case think she is guilty is because there is so much of this that it is impossible to deny.

 

[speedkilz88]

Filomena's computer was still in the room along with other items. It would be rather obvious to both of them that it didn't appear that anything was missing. If I was going to fake a break-in I guarantee you something would be missing. It just doesn't make sense that they would fake a break-in and then say nothing was stolen. I don't believe there is any evidence of a faked break-in either since it's only conjecture by Mignini rather than actual proof.


Amanda said that Meredith sometimes locked the door. It's more strange that Filomena claimed that Meredith never locked the door. How would she know that? I hardly ever lock my bedroom door but it would be ridiculous for anyone to claim I never lock my door. Neither are lying they just have different experiences(or different expectations) when coming to visit Meredith in her bedroom. You really have to look at these things with common sense if they truly were involved what would be the purpose to delaying the police from opening the door? Meredith is already dead it wouldn't benefit them at all. It's more conjecture by the prosecution.

There is no evidence of a clean up so that lamp theory gets shot down right there. Meredith might have borrowed it before she was attacked or Rudy may have got it to search under the bed. It's quite the leap to use as proof that two people(and that Amanda and Rafael were those two people) used the lamps to clean up evidence they were there. By the way if they did do that they need to be hired by the CIA because they are really good, best in the world to clean up all their dna/prints and leave nothing but Rudy there. Also point out that the prosecutions fingerprint expert said that there was no sign of a cleanup.

Got proof that it was opened easily? What does that even mean? Seen Rafael, not exactly the door knocking in type. I know I'm not either. If it was so easy the cop that was worried initially about breaking the door down could have opened it since it was so easy. The cop was the one that didn't want to break the door open, he wanted to wait and make sure that Meredith wasn't simply somewhere else. This is just more conjecture from Mignini being parroted.

This is still conjecture. It doesn't even say what was said that's suppose to be incriminating. I'm sure that her mother had a lot of different conversations with Amanda over what was happening and could have easily confused them. Not that I even know that any of this is true. Certainly not something that would be used in court for convicting someone.


Ridiculous the call to the Carabinieri was confirmed to have been placed prior to the postal police arrival. Mignini and the postal cops had video of when the postal police arrived but the time stamp was off. They were either idiots or they purposely subtracted time rather than adding time that it was off by. So the prosecution gave the wrong time which the defense has proven already.



This so called evidence is just biased conjecture meant to assassinate their credibility. It doesn't prove guilt just proves how far the prosecution would go to mislead the public. They did even worse with a lot of misinformation given to the media early on in the case that ended up not being true at all. Then in the last trial when all their "evidence" blew up into smoke they topped it by name calling and showing Amanda's vibrator and the crime scene photos of a naked Meredith.