Amazing stat from yesterday in a Tweet

[OmerV]

You actually believe that with Madden and Flores that it was a similar situation with those HC and staff as it is now with Jerry and his puppet style HC and staffs?

It wasn't the same with Jimmy and his staff as it is with Garrett and his staff now either … but even then Davis had his hand in everything. If you don't think Davis controlled his coaches, remember he was the owner/GM that traded his head coach (Gruden) to another team, and then Gruden. And then Gruden in his first year after the trade coached the Buccaneers to a Super Bowl victory - over Al Davis' Oakland Raiders. Imagine how this board would blow up if that happened with Jerry. lol

Davis was a dictator, make no mistake about that. He traded Stabler against the wishes of pretty much everyone in the organization, and it has been reported that Davis ordered Marcus Allen to be benched after a contract dispute (Allen only started 2 games from 1991-1992). Marcus Allen has publically said Davis told him that he was going to get Allen, and that he believes Davis intentionally tried to derail the latter part of his career and keep him out of the HOF.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You actually believe that with Madden and Flores that it was a similar situation with those HC and staff as it is now with Jerry and his puppet style HC and staffs?

It was not the same but then again, Al Davis was a Football guy. By that, I mean that Al Davis was a Coach, an Owner/Exec. and the AFL Commissioner. Davis was unique in that he had experience in professional football that far exceeded that of most others in the NFL Game. Jerry didn't have that when he bought the Cowboys. That's a major difference in the two.

 

[Diehardblues]

It was not the same but then again, Al Davis was a Football guy. By that, I mean that Al Davis was a Coach, an Owner/Exec. and the AFL Commissioner. Davis was unique in that he had experience in professional football that far exceeded that of most others in the NFL Game. Jerry didn't have that when he bought the Cowboys. That's a major difference in the two.

Very true !!

And I don’t recall the meddling and undermining of his HC and staff with Madden and Flores for example.

 

[Diehardblues]

It wasn't the same with Jimmy and his staff as it is with Garrett and his staff now either … but even then Davis had his hand in everything. If you don't think Davis controlled his coaches, remember he was the owner/GM that traded his head coach (Gruden) to another team, and then Gruden. And then Gruden in his first year after the trade coached the Buccaneers to a Super Bowl victory - over Al Davis' Oakland Raiders. Imagine how this board would blow up if that happened with Jerry. lol

Davis was a dictator, make no mistake about that. He traded Stabler against the wishes of pretty much everyone in the organization, and it has been reported that Davis ordered Marcus Allen to be benched after a contract dispute (Allen only started 2 games from 1991-1992). Marcus Allen has publically said Davis told him that he was going to get Allen, and that he believes Davis intentionally tried to derail the latter part of his career and keep him out of the HOF.

I understand but was Gruden a puppet in the same sense we are seeing our HC’s since Jimmy?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Very true !!

And I don’t recall the meddling and undermining of his HC and staff with Madden and Flores for example.

I do, but mostly in matters of personnel and Offensive style of play. Davis was an Offensive guy, primarily and he believed in drafting guys who fit a certain style of play and he believed in running his team with that Offensive Style. In those two areas, he did get involved and directed his Coaching Staff. However, he hired guys who fit that style so it was not like they were on a different page all together. In terms of things like open door policies, directing coaches to coach a certain way on the day to day, things like that, no. One very important thing to remember though, Salary Cap changes all. The Raiders bought a lot of players, a lot of guys that other teams didn't want for various reasons, the Raiders bought and paid. That wouldn't happen today and because of this, I'm not sure that Davis' way of doing things would work. That's a big part of the Raiders success under Davis.

JMO

 

[DandyDon52]

According to a tweet by NFL Network producer Bobby Belt about yesterday’s loss to the Jets:

“NFL teams are 90-1 since 1991 when they win time of possession, total yards, turnovers, pick up 25 first downs, and convert at least 10 or more 3rd down attempts.

Dallas' loss to the Jets on Sunday is the one loss.”

Ouch. The Cowboys somehow find a way to lose.

another negative record for Garrett ! lol he now has a bunch of them.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

I don't understand how we killed them statistically because it didn't seem like we outplayed them.

 

[OmerV]

I understand but was Gruden a puppet in the same sense we are seeing our HC’s since Jimmy?

In the same sense? Probably not exactly the same, but clearly Davis had authority over all things, and wasn't shy about using it, whether coaches agreed or not. I just looked up some things on Davis and found he would occasionaly even come down to the practice field and direct some portion of practices. And, like Jerry, he had the final say in all decisions, including roster moves and coaching hires.

And, of course, Jimmy and Parcells weren't "puppets" in the same sense either - Jerry had some strong willed, independent coaches himself. Just not consistently enough.

In the end, I'm not trying to say everything is absolutely identical between the way the Raiders were with Davis, and the way the Cowboys are with Jerry, but they werevery similar people in very similar situations. You can find article after article comparing the two, from how they rule(d) over their team, to the way they often feud with the League office, to how they have a soft spot for kids and players from disadvantaged backgrounds.

 

[Diehardblues]

In the same sense? Probably not exactly the same, but clearly Davis had authority over all things, and wasn't shy about using it, whether coaches agreed or not. I just looked up some things on Davis and found he would occasionaly even come down to the practice field and direct some portion of practices. And, like Jerry, he had the final say in all decisions, including roster moves and coaching hires.

And, of course, Jimmy and Parcells weren't "puppets" in the same sense either - Jerry had some strong willed, independent coaches himself. Just not consistently enough.

In the end, I'm not trying to say everything is absolutely identical between the way the Raiders were with Davis, and the way the Cowboys are with Jerry, but they werevery similar people in very similar situations. You can find article after article comparing the two, from how they rule(d) over their team, to the way they often feud with the League office, to how they have a soft spot for kids and players from disadvantaged backgrounds.

I understand the broader view but he didn’t have puppets. Al didn’t prevent or deter greater HC from coming on board.

 

[OmerV]

I understand the broader view but he didn’t have puppets. Al didn’t prevent or deter greater HC from coming on board.

I would say that if he traded players the coaches didn't want to trade, had a coach bench a player he had a contract dispute with, and actually came onto the practice field during practice and coached players, the head coach wasn't in full control of team. Again, maybe not identical to Jerry, but there were similarities, and in some cases Davis may have gone beyond even what Jerry would do.

Anyway, this is really a fruitless discussion to continue. I think we agree the situations are similar but not identical. My original point was simply that the situation itself was not unique - meaning a domineering owner who also serves as GM. It's not common, but it has happened.

 

[Diehardblues]

I would say that if he traded players the coaches didn't want to trade, had a coach bench a player he had a contract dispute with, and actually came onto the practice field during practice and coached players, the head coach wasn't in full control of team. Again, maybe not identical to Jerry, but there were similarities, and in some cases Davis may have gone beyond even what Jerry would do.

Anyway, this is really a fruitless discussion to continue. I think we agree the situations are similar but not identical. My original point was simply that the situation itself was not unique - meaning a domineering owner who also serves as GM. It's not common, but it has happened.

Yes , agree there were some similarities.

 

[75boyz]

Yes , agree there were some similarities.

I guess bravo's are in order to both parties for completing the Davis and Jones family GM/ownership discussion. Whew...what was the OP again?

 

[OmerV]

I guess bravo's are in order to both parties for completing the Davis and Jones family GM/ownership discussion. Whew...what was the OP again?

Let's just hope Jerry doesn't have to die to relinquish the GM position like Al did.

 

[Diehardblues]

Let's just hope Jerry doesn't have to die to relinquish the GM position like Al did.

I have little doubt. I look for him to continue well into his 80’s if his health holds up.

 

[CB61]

According to a tweet by NFL Network producer Bobby Belt about yesterday’s loss to the Jets:

“NFL teams are 90-1 since 1991 when they win time of possession, total yards, turnovers, pick up 25 first downs, and convert at least 10 or more 3rd down attempts.

Dallas' loss to the Jets on Sunday is the one loss.”

Ouch. The Cowboys somehow find a way to lose.

Yep if anybody can be on that list is the only one that would be the Cowboys

 

[CB61]

I have little doubt. I look for him to continue well into his 80’s if his health holds up.

So we're in for another long 10 to 15 years huh? I've said before I need to find something better to do with my time to watch the Dallas Cowboys but I still sit in front of the TV for every game but that's wearing thin on me

 

[buybuydandavis]

According to a tweet by NFL Network producer Bobby Belt about yesterday’s loss to the Jets:

“NFL teams are 90-1 since 1991 when they win time of possession, total yards, turnovers, pick up 25 first downs, and convert at least 10 or more 3rd down attempts.

Dallas' loss to the Jets on Sunday is the one loss.”

Ouch. The Cowboys somehow find a way to lose.

Jerry: Jason is a history making coach!

 

[GMO415]

According to a tweet by NFL Network producer Bobby Belt about yesterday’s loss to the Jets:

“NFL teams are 90-1 since 1991 when they win time of possession, total yards, turnovers, pick up 25 first downs, and convert at least 10 or more 3rd down attempts.

Dallas' loss to the Jets on Sunday is the one loss.”

Ouch. The Cowboys somehow find a way to lose.

Haze, that's what I been saying. This team is in the middle of a cascading failure and the bottom hasn't been ID. JG is not the one who will pull them out.

 

[Bobhaze]

Jerry: Jason is a history making coach!

I actually listened to part of that interview with JJ today on 105.3 the Fan. I’m not kidding....he sounds like a senile old man and no one around is willing or able to let him know he’s lost it.

I understand why Jerry would say some kind of “vote of confidence”. All GMs say that publicly, even when they know they’re about to fire their coach. But ‘Ol Jerrah took it waaaay further, saying Garrett was “One of the best in our league”. And when asked what made Garrett such a good coach, JJ pauses, then said, “He’s really organized”.....how inspiring!

Sorry. Jerry used to be smarter and more with it, even though he only qualified for the GM position when the check cleared the bank in Feb ‘89. This is the level of stupidity and arrogance we are stuck with “til death do us part.”

 

[buybuydandavis]

I actually listened to part of that interview with JJ today on 105.3 the Fan. I’m not kidding....he sounds like a senile old man and no one around is willing or able to let him know he’s lost it.

I understand why Jerry would say some kind of “vote of confidence”. All GMs say that publicly, even when they know they’re about to fire their coach. But ‘Ol Jerrah took it waaaay further, saying Garrett was “One of the best in our league”. And when asked what made Garrett such a good coach, JJ pauses, then said, “He’s really organized”.....how inspiring!

Sorry. Jerry used to be smarter and more with it, even though he only qualified for the GM position when the check cleared the bank in Feb ‘89. This is the level of stupidity and arrogance we are stuck with “til death do us part.”

Going down the path of his buddy, Al Davis. Dark tidings for us.