An informal survey: Is Romo closer to Aikman or to White?

[gbrittain]

He's never made the big throw during a critical moment in a tight elimination game that led to a win. The throw to Crayton went incomplete and that was on Crayton but we can only speculate on what would have happened had he made the catch. You claim it would have been a game winner but we don't know that there was too much time left in the game. A lot of debates on Romo deal with speculation but there's no evidence to support most of it.

There's no evidence that says he could win a SB if you put him on a great team because he's suffered a lot of turnovers with the good playoff teams he's been apart of. He's been unable to raise his level of play and the play of his teammates in big games which is something Aikman could do. I don't care how great a team a QB has they still have to be able to make some big throws in critical situations while avoiding turnovers to win big games.

The throw to Crayton went incomplete and that was on Crayton but we can only speculate on what would have happened had he made the catch. You claim it would have been a game winner but we don't know that there was too much time left in the game.

Correct me if I am wrong but I think there would have only been about 20 seconds remaining on the clock. I guess given the Dallas defense maybe that is not a slam dunk, but that would only go to prove my point that Tony's road is a much tougher one.

he's suffered a lot of turnovers with the good playoff teams he's been apart of

Tony did not thrown an INT against Seattle.

Tony threw one INT against NY in the 07 playoff game and that was a 4th and 11 do or die because Crayton had just brain farted the previous play.

Tony did not have a turnover against Philly.

The one playoff game you hang Tony for in terms of turnovers would be the Minnesota game and even then it was one INT.

I don't think one can say he has been careless with the ball in the playoffs.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think there would have only been about 20 seconds remaining on the clock. I guess given the Dallas defense maybe that is not a slam dunk, but that would only go to prove my point that Tony's road is a much tougher one.



Tony did not thrown an INT against Seattle.

Tony threw one INT against NY in the 07 playoff game and that was a 4th and 11 do or die because Crayton had just brain farted the previous play.

Tony did not have a turnover against Philly.

The one playoff game you hang Tony for in terms of turnovers would be the Minnesota game and even then it was one INT.

I don't think one can say he has been careless with the ball in the playoffs.

Prepare yourself, friend. Though you are 100% correct, you are about to get hit with a long rambling diatribe about the lazy, unintelligent concept of... the elimination game!

 

[KJJ]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think there would have only been about 20 seconds remaining on the clock. I guess given the Dallas defense maybe that is not a slam dunk, but that would only go to prove my point that Tony's road is a much tougher one.

There was a lot more time than that left in the game. Crayton's drop led to a punt and a 25 yard return by RC McQuarters. That set the Giants up for their game winning points. One big reason why the Cowboys lost that game was their inability to stop the Giants on 3rd down. Even though Romo was off and Crayton's hands turned into stone the Cowboys still could have won had the defense stepped up.

Tony did not thrown an INT against Seattle.

Tony threw one INT against NY in the 07 playoff game and that was a 4th and 11 do or die because Crayton had just brain farted the previous play.

Tony did not have a turnover against Philly.

The one playoff game you hang Tony for in terms of turnovers would be the Minnesota game and even then it was one INT.

I don't think one can say he has been careless with the ball in the playoffs.

In Romo's 6 elimination game losses he's committed 12 turnovers. In his only elimination game win vs Philly he had zero turnovers. In the Minnesota game he had a pick and 2 fumbles. Of his 12 turnovers in his 6 elimination game losses 11 of them came on the road. If you look closely at Romo's history most of his turnovers have come on the road in critical games. Against Pittsburgh in Dec of 08 Romo turned the ball over 4 times including a pick six late in the game when the Cowboys had a chance to win.

The issues he has dealing with big game pressure on the road when it's down to crunch time is very troubling. If the Cowboys are able to make the playoffs again under Romo it's highly unlikely they'll ever get home field throughout so he's going to have to get it done on the road at some point.

 

[KJJ]

Prepare yourself, friend. Though you are 100% correct, you are about to get hit with a long rambling diatribe about the lazy, unintelligent concept of... the elimination game!

He even used the term "elimination game." He knows what it means as well as every fan on this board but you're still googling trying to figure it out. :laugh2:

 

[weaver21]

Prepare yourself, friend. Though you are 100% correct, you are about to get hit with a long rambling diatribe about the lazy, unintelligent concept of... the elimination game!

Stop being an idiot. Everyone knows what an elimination game is and you can't seem to grasp the definition of it for so some odd reason. Of course you're not gonna find the term "elimination game" on Google, but every sports fan, not just football fan, knows what an elimination game is.

 

[Nation]

Please see the below thread if you are going to use Elimination games as a measure:

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/dallascowboys.php?t=250485

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Stop being an idiot. Everyone knows what an elimination game is and you can't seem to grasp the definition of it for so some odd reason. Of course you're not gonna find the term "elimination game" on Google, but every sports fan, not just football fan, knows what an elimination game is.

I can find it, I just can't find it for any other quarterback besides Tony Romo... in the history of the NFL. Why is this?

Because it's a made up term to try to make some regular season games into playoff games to make Romo look bad. But no matter how hard Romo haters like you try, you can't make a regular season game into a playoff game. No person with even a modicum of intelligence would try to link the two, but that has never been the strength of Romo haters obviously.

 

[weaver21]

I can find it, I just can't find it for any other quarterback besides Tony Romo... in the history of the NFL. Why is this?

Because it's a made up term to try to make some regular season games into playoff games to make Romo look bad. But no matter how hard Romo haters like you try, you can't make a regular season game into a playoff game. No person with even a modicum of intelligence would try to link the two, but that has never been the strength of Romo haters obviously.

I'm not a Romo hater. I support the guy and think he's a top 10 quarterback. The definition of an elimination game is basically the same as a "win or go home" kind of game. The last game against Washington is the definition of an elimination game ... we lost and we were essentially "eliminated" from playoff contention. All those three playoff losses against Minnesota, New York and Seattle were elimination games and the loss against Philly in 2008 was also a elimination game. It's simple logic, man. Look at Nation's thread a couple comments before ... it's clearly a term that exists and it exists with every quarterback that has played the game.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

I'm not a Romo hater. I support the guy and think he's a top 10 quarterback. The definition of an elimination game is basically the same as a "win or go home" kind of game. The last game against Washington is the definition of an elimination game ... we lost and we were essentially "eliminated" from playoff contention. All those three playoff losses against Minnesota, New York and Seattle were elimination games and the loss against Philly in 2008 was also a elimination game. It's simple logic, man. Look at Nation's thread a couple comments before ... it's clearly a term that exists and it exists with every quarterback that has played the game.

Sigh... then find me a single link of any QB in the history of the NFL being cited for their elimination record. ANY QB IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL. How hard is this to understand?

Let's try it another way... what is Eli Manning's elimination game record?

 

[gbrittain]

There was a lot more time than that left in the game. Crayton's drop led to a punt and a 25 yard return by RC McQuarters. That set the Giants up for their game winning points. One big reason why the Cowboys lost that game was their inability to stop the Giants on 3rd down. Even though Romo was off and Crayton's hands turned into stone the Cowboys still could have won had the defense stepped up.



In Romo's 6 elimination game losses he's committed 12 turnovers. In his only elimination game win vs Philly he had zero turnovers. In the Minnesota game he had a pick and 2 fumbles. Of his 12 turnovers in his 6 elimination game losses 11 of them came on the road. If you look closely at Romo's history most of his turnovers have come on the road in critical games. Against Pittsburgh in Dec of 08 Romo turned the ball over 4 times including a pick six late in the game when the Cowboys had a chance to win.

The issues he has dealing with big game pressure on the road when it's down to crunch time is very troubling. If the Cowboys are able to make the playoffs again under Romo it's highly unlikely they'll ever get home field throughout so he's going to have to get it done on the road at some point.

There was a lot more time than that left in the game. Crayton's drop led to a punt and a 25 yard return by RC McQuarters. That set the Giants up for their game winning points.

We are talking about two different plays. The one you are talking about is a bad one too.

The one I am talking about was with 21 seconds remaining in the game and Crayton simply did not finish his route.

 

[weaver21]

Sigh... then find me a single link of any QB in the history of the NFL being cited for their elimination record. ANY QB IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL. How hard is this to understand?

Let's try it another way... what is Eli Manning's elimination game record?

Eli Manning has won two Super Bowls rings and two Super Bowl MVPS, he doesn't need to be defined by his elimination game record. A better example is Matt Ryan who is 1-4 in the playoffs which qualify as "elimination games". Ryan faced a lot pressure to win a playoff game this season and he did finally, but also seemed to get a lot blame for the loss against San Francisco. He clearly, just like Romo, is defined by his playoff record. Playoff games are the same as elimination games ... you lose, you're ELIMINATED.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Eli Manning has won two Super Bowls rings and two Super Bowl MVPS, he doesn't need to be defined by his elimination game record. A better example is Matt Ryan who is 1-4 in the playoffs which qualify as "elimination games". Ryan faced a lot pressure to win a playoff game this season and he did finally, but also seemed to get a lot blame for the loss against San Francisco. He clearly, just like Romo, is defined by his playoff record. Playoff games are the same as elimination games ... you lose, you're ELIMINATED.

LOL, no matter how hard you try, regular season games are not playoff games. Regular season games all have the same weight (1/16th) and one is no more signifcant than the other. Playoff games sites are determined by playoff seeding, can't end in ties and are on a whole other level of intensity. Romo is 55-38 in the regular season and 1-3 in the playoffs. Period. But that wasn't good enough for Romo haters so they created the "elimination game" so they could make that 1-3 even worse. And you're smart enough to damn well know this. You're just being difficult.

 

[Muhast]

Please see the below thread if you are going to use Elimination games as a measure:

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/dallascowboys.php?t=250485

Guaranteed he won't click that link. It will discredit his entire premise.

 

[weaver21]

LOL, no matter how hard you try, regular season games are not playoff games. Regular season games all have the same weight (1/16th) and one is no more signifcant than the other. Playoff games sites are determined by playoff seeding, can't end in ties and are on a whole other level of intensity. Romo is 55-38 in the regular season and 1-3 in the playoffs. Period. But that wasn't good enough for Romo haters so they created the "elimination game" so they could make that 1-3 even worse. And you're smart enough to damn well know this. You're just being difficult.

:laugh2:

You're telling me a Week 7 game has the same weight and signifance of an elimination game in the final week determine who goes to the playoffs? Come on man, I'm not trying to be difficult. Romo has a reputation for choking in important games, that's a fact and that's the reason the elimination game term is used more on him than any other quarterback. I'm not hating on the guy, just trying point out that the elimination game term is for real and it exists for every quarterback. The reason it's used on Romo more than any other quarterback is because he does not play well in important games which is basically playoff games and playoff-type games like the Washington game this past season.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

:laugh2:

You're telling me a Week 7 game has the same weight and signifance of an elimination game in the final week determine who goes to the playoffs? Come on man, I'm not trying to be difficult. Romo has a reputation for choking in important games, that's a fact and that's the reason the elimination game term is used more on him than any other quarterback. I'm not hating on the guy, just trying point out that the elimination game term is for real and it exists for every quarterback. The reason it's used on Romo more than any other quarterback is because he does not play well in important games which is basically playoff games and playoff-type games like the Washington game this past season.

No, that's what you don't get. Regular season games are not playoff games. They are not "playoff-type" games or "elimination games". The problem is, you really think that the Cowboys missed the playoffs because they lost in Washington that night. No, they were eliminated because they lost 7 other games and finished with an 8-8 record. THAT'S why they were eliminated. No one single game keeps you out... they all have the same weight. The playoffs are truly elimination games because your entire fate is based on that result... if you are 15-1 and lose it doesn't matter. Season is over. That is why they call it the "second season". If the Cowboys were 14-1 in Washington that night it damn sure wouldn't have been an elimination game. A regular season game is just 1/16th of a season.

I will grant you that not all regular season games are created equal, but no regular season game should ever be counted the same as a playoff game. It's not even a comparison... just a made up term by ESPN and the like to antagonize Romo.

 

[KJJ]

We are talking about two different plays. The one you are talking about is a bad one too.

The one I am talking about was with 21 seconds remaining in the game and Crayton simply did not finish his route.

Crayton hesitated on the route but there's still no assurances he and Romo would have hooked up for the TD had he not. The more damaging play was the drop in the 3rd quarter because it gave the Giants the momentum. Had Crayton made the catch he may have scored he would have reached FG range at the very least before being run down. That was a 3rd down play and it deflated the Cowboys and gave the Giants a lift. On the ensuing punt RW McQuarters returned it 25 yards to the Cowboys 37 and 6 plays later the Giants scored a TD. The drop by Crayton led to at least a 10 point swing.

Had Crayton made the catch it would have led to at least a FG and even had the Giants ended up scoring a TD anyway on their next possession the Cowboys would have only needed a FG to win instead of a TD in the closing seconds. The Cowboys reached the Giants 23 with 16 seconds left which would have left them with a 41 yard FG attempt to win the game instead of a desperation throw.

 

[gbrittain]

Crayton hesitated on the route but there's still no assurances he and Romo would have hooked up for the TD had he not. The more damaging play was the drop in the 3rd quarter because it gave the Giants the momentum. Had Crayton made the catch he may have scored he would have reached FG range at the very least before being run down. That was a 3rd down play and it deflated the Cowboys and gave the Giants a lift. On the ensuing punt RW McQuarters returned it 25 yards to the Cowboys 37 and 6 plays later the Giants scored a TD. The drop by Crayton led to at least a 10 point swing.

Had Crayton made the catch it would have led to at least a FG and even had the Giants ended up scoring a TD anyway on their next possession the Cowboys would have only needed a FG to win instead of a TD in the closing seconds. The Cowboys reached the Giants 23 with 16 seconds left which would have left them with a 41 yard FG attempt to win the game instead of a desperation throw.

Now you are depressing me... What might have been.

 

[Jarv]

Amen to that. Romo has won only 76% of the games where he's had a +3 TD to INT, which is ridiculous. By comparison Brady has won 97% of his. No quarterback that has to do as much as Romo is as scrutinized as he is.

Now that is an amazing stat that goes to show people how much of the game is actually a TEAM sport.

 

[KJJ]

Now you are depressing me... What might have been.

What might have been has pretty much been the story of Romo's career. The legacy of most QB's are defined by the plays they made but unfortunately for Romo so far his has been defined by ill-timed turnovers and the small handful of plays he didn't make. With Staubach we remember the Hail Mary to Drew Pearson in the 75 playoffs. We remember his bomb into the outstretched arms of Butch Johnson in SB XII and we remember his final regular season TD pass to Tony Hill that put the Commanders away in the season finale in 79.

With Aikman we remember his lazar like accuracy hitting Michael Irvin on the skinny post and the deep out and that perfect throw he made on the crossing pattern to Alvin Harper that sealed the win in the 92 NFC title game. With Romo it's the plays he didn't make that we remember. What might have been had he not bobbled that snap in the 06 playoffs vs Seattle. What might have been had Crayton not dropped that pass or hesitated on that route in the 07 playoffs vs the Giants. Romo made great throws on both plays but all we can do is speculate as to what might have been had they been completed.

With the Cowboys leading 34-29 vs the Giants in their first meeting in 2011 on a 3rd and 5 from the Cowboys 25 Austin ran right past Aaron Ross and it looked as if the play would be a touchdown but Instead (and it may have been Austin’s fault) the pass sailed over his head. That led to a Cowboys punt, the Giants scored on their ensuing drive and the Cowboys lost. Just another what might have been for Romo.

 

[TwoDeep3]

No, that's what you don't get. Regular season games are not playoff games. They are not "playoff-type" games or "elimination games". The problem is, you really think that the Cowboys missed the playoffs because they lost in Washington that night. No, they were eliminated because they lost 7 other games and finished with an 8-8 record. THAT'S why they were eliminated. No one single game keeps you out... they all have the same weight. The playoffs are truly elimination games because your entire fate is based on that result... if you are 15-1 and lose it doesn't matter. Season is over. That is why they call it the "second season". If the Cowboys were 14-1 in Washington that night it damn sure wouldn't have been an elimination game. A regular season game is just 1/16th of a season.

I will grant you that not all regular season games are created equal, but no regular season game should ever be counted the same as a playoff game. It's not even a comparison... just a made up term by ESPN and the like to antagonize Romo.

Bull manure.

We can talk about the other seven games all day long. But in the final analysis the team could have beaten Washington on the last day of the season for Dallas and then extended their season and gone to the play-offs.

People are always trying to revamp circumstance to make their point work.

The fact is win - play-offs - lose - no play-offs. The other seven surely had a hand, but not one of them was a lose and go home game like the Washington game was.

Rewriting history with stats, and changing the criteria doesn't work.

This is the same type of silliness that was exhibited here after the jets opener two seasons ago when Romo tossed a pick that lost the game and people were trying to suggest it was the blocked punt.

Blocked punt had a hand in it, but Romo's pick led to the winning points.

In this case losing to Washington ended the season. No equivocation.

Said, done, printed.