Another discussion...

[dr_hefley]

Pup was outstanding and I would not want the job of making a choice between the two. But I'm thinking pup over TNew......slightly.

Remember how after the injury he started getting called for pass interference at least once a game. Then it was like the refs were just looking for him to commit PI. I remember thinking then that he was marked by the refs.

K. Smith actually became Mario Edwards before Mario Edwards. A P.I. call waiting to happen.

 

[superpunk]

I was too young to take notice of who was covering who or how well they were doing, but hasn't the whole "Kevin Smith used to shut down Rice" myth been debunked on here, before? Thought I remembered reading that, and that Rice actually consistently did quite well against Smith and the Cowboys.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I was too young to take notice of who was covering who or how well they were doing, but hasn't the whole "Kevin Smith used to shut down Rice" myth been debunked on here, before?

Yep...

I loved Pup. Similar to Newman -- Big 12 speed guy who was a great punt returner in college.

But there's a lot of "Good Ole Days" syndrome going on here, especially among the younger posters. (I mean, Kenny Gant: Great Cowboy (?)) Newman's even more talented than Pup, and probably a better player. He just didn't drop onto a team that was already 95% championship caliber.

 

[YosemiteSam]

in-his-prime, pre-achilles Kevin Smith vs. Terence Newman. Who would you rather have? I love Newman, but Smith shut down Jerry Rice when Rice was at the top of his game.

You will get love both ways. Those who were a part of Smith's days, and those who were not. Smith takes a lot of hits for his rookie year and post injury days. Those who claim Newman always point to Kevin's early struggles and post injury struggles. What they don't like to talk about is how he destoryed Jerry Rice. What they do point to is that Jerry Rice had (I beleive 6 catches for 48 yards during an NFC championship game and claim Smith didn't shut him down. What they fail to mention is most of the catches and yards where in fact not against Kevin Smith and they also fail to mention that even with those catches Rice was rendered ineffective the entire game.

Now, everyone knows Rice is the all time receiving king. What they don't tell you is zone coverage wasn't used near as much then as it is today. Rice was mostly covered in man coverage during his heyday and great receivers love man coverage. If in fact he would have faced more zone, his numbers wouldn't have been quite as astounding as they are today. (not saying he still wouldn't hold so many record, he is still the most refined receiver in history those record still account for something)

Newman is a great CB, but he isn't the best today, and he wasn't better than Kevin Smith in his prime pre-injury. (you can hate me all you want, but Marcus Trufant IS a better CB than Newman)

 

[khiladi]

Pup was outstanding and I would not want the job of making a choice between the two. But I'm thinking pup over TNew......slightly.

Remember how after the injury he started getting called for pass interference at least once a game. Then it was like the refs were just looking for him to commit PI. I remember thinking then that he was marked by the refs.

He was marked by the refs because he was so dominant. That was the era the league targetted specific Dallas Cowboy players, among them, Erik Williams, Michael Irvin, Kevin Smith.

 

[odog422]

Two different eras as regards the rules on pass coverage and what CBs are allowed to do. Just no way to tell now.

This I agree with 100%. Night and day because of the rules so you can't fairly evaluate.

 

[BlueStar II]

in-his-prime, pre-achilles Kevin Smith vs. Terence Newman. Who would you rather have? I love Newman, but Smith shut down Jerry Rice when Rice was at the top of his game.

:starspin In his prime...I would take Kevin Smith. That's not to say that Newman isn't good, or that I'm not pleased with his level of play, but considering how Smith played in big games, and against someone like Rice, I would take Smith for that reason.

 

[joseephuss]

Yep...

I loved Pup. Similar to Newman -- Big 12 speed guy who was a great punt returner in college.

But there's a lot of "Good Ole Days" syndrome going on here, especially among the younger posters. (I mean, Kenny Gant: Great Cowboy (?)) Newman's even more talented than Pup, and probably a better player. He just didn't drop onto a team that was already 95% championship caliber.

Kenny Gant was a great Cowboy. You don't have to be a great player to be a great Cowboy. There is a long list of great Cowboys. The ones at the top of the list were also great players. Gant isn't at the top, but he has a place in many people's hearts.

 

[joseephuss]

I was too young to take notice of who was covering who or how well they were doing, but hasn't the whole "Kevin Smith used to shut down Rice" myth been debunked on here, before? Thought I remembered reading that, and that Rice actually consistently did quite well against Smith and the Cowboys.

In the 1992 game Rice had 8 receptions for 123 yards and 1 TD.
In the 1993 game Rice had 6 receptions for 83 yards and 0 TD.
In the 1994 game Rice had 2 receptions for 36 yards and 1 TD.

How is the term shut down defined and how was it applied in those games? It is subjective.

Rice never took over in any of those three games. His biggest play was a TD late in the first half of the 1994 game when he was single covered by Larry Brown. Many of his catches in those games came against Brown. Also, a lot of his catches were short routes. A couple he broke for some good yardage, but he never really broke any huge game changing plays.

Against most receivers shutting them down literally means holding them to 0 catches. With perhaps the best receiver in NFL history, it may mean not letting him go wild and dominating the game.

Perhaps it is better to say that Dallas and Kevin Smith especially held Jerry Rice in check. That was quite an accomplishment at the time. A lot of teams could not do that.

 

[joseephuss]

You will get love both ways. Those who were a part of Smith's days, and those who were not. Smith takes a lot of hits for his rookie year and post injury days. Those who claim Newman always point to Kevin's early struggles and post injury struggles. What they don't like to talk about is how he destoryed Jerry Rice. What they do point to is that Jerry Rice had (I beleive 6 catches for 48 yards during an NFC championship game and claim Smith didn't shut him down. What they fail to mention is most of the catches and yards where in fact not against Kevin Smith and they also fail to mention that even with those catches Rice was rendered ineffective the entire game.

Now, everyone knows Rice is the all time receiving king. What they don't tell you is zone coverage wasn't used near as much then as it is today. Rice was mostly covered in man coverage during his heyday and great receivers love man coverage. If in fact he would have faced more zone, his numbers wouldn't have been quite as astounding as they are today. (not saying he still wouldn't hold so many record, he is still the most refined receiver in history those record still account for something)

Newman is a great CB, but he isn't the best today, and he wasn't better than Kevin Smith in his prime pre-injury. (you can hate me all you want, but Marcus Trufant IS a better CB than Newman)

It is not about hate, but I just don't see it. Watching both guys I see Newman as being better. I can compromise and say that Newman and Trufant are equal, but I just can't see Trufant as the better CB.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Kenny Gant was a great Cowboy. You don't have to be a great player to be a great Cowboy. There is a long list of great Cowboys. The ones at the top of the list were also great players. Gant isn't at the top, but he has a place in many people's hearts.

Wow.

He may have a place in certain people's hearts, but this franchise of all of them doesn't have room for a mediocre player like Kenny Gant to go in the "great" category.

Honestly, when I think of Kenny Gant, I think of a mid-round, tiny-school corner with great speed and a funny dance who got busted for coke.

About 100 other Cowboys deserve "great" before he does.

(And yes, Newman is better than Trufant, but nyc has some funny ideas on players sometimes and it's not worth arguing. )

 

[joseephuss]

Wow.

He may have a place in certain people's hearts, but this franchise of all of them doesn't have room for a mediocre player like Kenny Gant to go in the "great" category.

Honestly, when I think of Kenny Gant, I think of a mid-round, tiny-school corner with great speed and a funny dance who got busted for coke.

About 100 other Cowboys deserve "great" before he does.

(And yes, Newman is better than Trufant, but nyc has some funny ideas on players sometimes and it's not worth arguing. )

This franchise has plenty of room for guys like Gant in the "great" category. Of course he doesn't sniff the "greater" and "greatest" categories.

 

[Doctor32]

Give me Kevin Smith with Haley rushing the quarterback.

I love Newman though. And he really dislikes the Giants.

 

[Future]

Where did the nickname Pup come from?

 

[YosemiteSam]

(And yes, Newman is better than Trufant, but nyc has some funny ideas on players sometimes and it's not worth arguing. )

I call them like I see them and bias only shows it's ugly head if I'm talking about the dirty Commanders.