Another theory to the Manson-family murders

Discussion in 'Off-topic Zone' started by MichaelWinicki, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Moderator

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    I grew up with the notion that Charlie Manson had his family commit a series of murders in order to start a race war.

    However (according to a new show about Manson and the murders) the murders were the result of a drug sale heist gone bad.

    The story goes that Tex Watson and another family member attempted to short-change a black drug dealer. The dealer was more than irritated and Charlie was scared and ended up shooting the guy. However the dealer didn't die.

    Charlie became even more scared because he thought the drug dealer was connected to the Black Panthers.

    He then (as this theory goes) has Gary Hinman killed by Bobby Beausoleil and have the killing look like it was done by the Black Panthers– So that the police would go after them and thus the Black Panthers would forget about Manson.

    Well that plan crashed & burned when Bobby Beausoleil was arrested soon after when he was driving Hinman's car.

    In order to throw the light back on the Black Panthers and get Beausoleil released, Charlie planned the murders of Sharon Tate & company... Well not Sharon Tate per se, but everyone in that house, whom Manson thought was still inhabited by a music producer who Manson had a grudge against (and Manson had visited the house previously).

    The Tex Watson & company murders of Sharon Tate & company were the intended to look like the Gary Hinman murder and ultimately a Black Panther associated murder.

    The problem was the folks that were murdered weren't the intended targets, which triggered the murders of the next night of the Labianca's who lived in a house next to a house Manson was again familiar with.

    So the Labianca's were murdered and again the purpose of the scene was to make it appear as a Black Panther murder.

    All this was intended not to start a race war but to put the heat on the Black Panthers and free Bobby Beausoleil.

    How likely is this scenario as opposed to the starting of the "race war" angle?

    I gotta admit maybe we gave Manson far too much credit as a supposed mastermind of trying to start a "race war" and maybe it was a case of a drug sale heist gone bad.
     
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  2. Trouty

    Trouty Kellen Moore baby

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    Is this confirmed, or a speculative piece, Mike? In your title, you state "theory". Who's theory? Is this part of a documentary? You said "new show," what is the show/channel?

    Very interesting, if even part of it can be substantiated.
     
  3. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Moderator

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    On "Reel".

    Substantiating it is like trying to substantiate any theory... There are bits & pieces out there that are put together.

    Some of it comes from Manson's own ramblings from prison.

    Others from family members.

    Still more from their defense attorneys.

    A big part of it comes from Bobby Beausoleil who's still alive (in prison).

    Would it make sense that the prosecution (Vincent Bugliosi) pushed the race-war angle because it would be far more explosive for the defense over the "Hey, they were trying to get the Black Panthers into even more trouble, get their friend out of jail and cover for the shooting of the drug dealer?"

    Yeah, maybe.

    Personally I question if Manson had the guile to even consider the race-war angle. Heck he already had everything he wanted... Drugs... Women who would do everything he asked... Illicit ways of making money... A place to live. What did he need the race-war for?

    Also keep in mind the main killer for both nights of murders, Tex Watson, wasn't tried at the same time as the other family members. He was in Texas and wouldn't be tried for another year.

    If he had been tried with the other's then he would have caught the brunt of everything and maybe the race-war angle couldn't have even been played.
     
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  4. SlammedZero

    SlammedZero Well-Known Member

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    Well, I would say it definitely has some plausibility. Interesting take to it. It's not like the media has ever blown something out of proportion before.
     
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  5. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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  6. blindzebra

    blindzebra Well-Known Member

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    As far as his followers believed it was a race war, Manson personally? The Helter Skelter teaching had been going on for over a year before the murders. I had heard about Charlie shooting a black panther before, and it was more of an incentive to hurry up what he and his followers believed and not the real reason. The Terry Melcher angle is also false as Charlie came to the house and met Sharon Tate before the murders while looking for Melcher.
     
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  7. timb2

    timb2 Well-Known Member

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    I overheard something at a Holiday party a few years ago from somebody in the music industry. He knew of a producer who he said stole some of Mansion's music and that the LaBianca's have lived next door to him and that maybe they just got the wrong house and that it was suppose to be this producer.
     
  8. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Moderator

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    You may be mixing up the houses and the stories, but there is some truth there.

    A record producer– Terry Melcher, who was working with Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys, lived in the house that Roman Polanski and Sharon Tate eventually ended up in. And yeah, Manson had a grudge with Melcher over some supposed material Manson created– And Manson returned to the house a couple of times between the time Melcher moves and the night of the murders– Looking for Melcher but was repeatedly told that he no longer lived there.

    Manson and family members attended a party at the house next to the LaBianca house. This had occurred several months prior to the LaBianca murders.
     
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  9. arglebargle

    arglebargle Well-Known Member

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    In a biography of Squeeky Fromme (den mother of the.Manson family), the author definitely backed the drug dealer version of the murders.
     
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  10. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Moderator

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    I'm leaning more towards that explanation for the killings.

    The race-war perspective just sounds too big of scope for Manson and he already had everything he wanted.

    The race-war talked made for great theater in the court-room and for Bugliosi's career.
     
  11. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    So....... You trying to tell me that my Dad was right all along? It was all about crazy arse drug addicts then. Humph.......... go figure.........
     
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  12. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Moderator

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    Certainly it's a perspective that seems to have a lot of merit.
     
  13. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    The murders were revenge killings because Mansion was angered that Terry Melcher didn’t sign him to a record deal. According to Manson, Melcher lied to him. Manson was also upset that Dennis Wilson and The Beach Boys recorded a song Manson wrote called “cease to exist” changing some of the lyrics and renaming the song. They gave Manson no credit for the song. Manson was extremely angry and bitter.

    Wilson later found a bullet on his bed. Mansion wanted both Wilson and Melcher dead. Melcher had been renting the house where the murders were committed in Benedict Canyon. Manson had been to the house before. He came to the house a second time looking for Melcher and was told he no longer lived there.

    Manson thought that Melcher owned the house and was renting it out. He figured whoever was living in the house must be rich and wanted everyone dead.
     
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  14. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Moderator

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    Oh no question that figured in to it.

    Just like the slight connection he had with the LaBianca house.

    But he wasn't going to kill just to kill there was a reason behind it beyond the Melcher-revenge angle... Was it because he wanted to start a race-war as the prosecution stated or was it because he was scared to death of the Black-panther revenge angle that developed from the botched drug hit?
     
  15. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    I don’t believe there was any other reason behind the Tate murders other than revenge. We can only speculate why the LaBianca’s were murdered. It’s possible they got the wrong house, we’ll never know. Those murders really got everyone on the wrong track. Had it not been for Susan Atkins confessing the crime to a cellmate they may never have caught them.
     
  16. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Moderator

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    I think the Tate murders were meant to do two things:

    -First and foremost serve as cover for the Gary Hinman murder and to get their boy Bobby Beausoleil who was in jail under the suspicion of murdering Hinman– Manson wanted the authorities to think Hinman's killer was still at large.
    -Manson was familiar with the Melcher/Tate house and if he could have Melcher killed... Then two birds with one stone.
     
  17. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    This is where Sharon Tate and her friends had their last meal. That restaurant is still in business.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Moderator

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    I feel bad for all the Manson victims, but maybe the worst for 18 year-old Steven Parent who was simply visiting the guy in the caretaker's house out back.

    If the kid had left a minute earlier he probably would have missed running into Tex Watson & co.
     
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  19. Sarge

    Sarge Red, White and Brew... Moderator

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    Squeaky Fromme lives 3 miles from me. True story.
     
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  20. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Moderator

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    Really?

    She'd be fascinating to talk to.
     
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