Anthony Spencer trade a possibility for Dallas Cowboys

[BrAinPaiNt]

He could be used as draft day trade bait.

Ahhhh The often talked about but rarely ever seen Dallas Cowboys draft day player for picks trade.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Ahhhh The often talked about but rarely ever seen Dallas Cowboys draft day player for picks trade.

You dog you.

 

[Hoofbite]

Ed werder just answered me on twitter saying he believes that he won't get traded. Seems more likely the tag was to get a deal done

My hopes just took a bump up. Not that I think he doesn't know what he's talking about but I am naturally untrusting of men with mustaches like his.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This.

Someone giving up a 1st and 3rd for Spencer PLUS $10 mil a season?

Wow! Just Wow!

I doubt it would be 10 Million. The Franchise Tag amount would be 10 Million plus but it's possible that if he were traded, a negotiated contract would have to be worked out and that could be less then the 10 million number.

 

[marchetta]

He could be used as draft day trade bait.

No he can't. JJ has said that a player's value is never lower than during draft time. Teams always feel they can fill holes via the draft, thus lowering a players trade value.

 

[Beast_from_East]

$10 million? Fantasy Island

Mickey said that Romo is counting $17 million and a new contract would drop his cap number in half, basically creating around $8 million in cap space.


Spencer is counting $10 million, and if you give him a long term deal then you are going to drop his cap number to at least $8 million at worst. (probably could drop it even further depending on how much signing bounus you want to prorate). So lets say you save $2 million on the deal and you add that to Romo's deal and you now have $10 million to spend.

$8 million from Romo + $2 million from Spencer = $10 million.


Not fantasy island, just math.

 

[Beast_from_East]

How do we get a good FA for 5 million if we absolutely must pay our good FA 10 million plus?

:laugh2:

Very easily..........we give Romo and Spencer brand new long term contracts that drastically cuts their 2013 cap numbers, thus freeing up millions and millions of dollars that can be used to upgrade the rest of the team.

We can also restrucutre/release Vickers, Connor, or Spears to free up even additional money since Mickey said these guys have large base salaries but almost no guaranteed money left. Then there is Free that can be named a June 1st cut that frees up around another $7 million.

This is why Stephen Jones laughs at people that say the Cowboys dont have any cap room.

 

[LatinMind]

what I find funny about this thread is the same people saying d Dallas shouldn't trade him for anything less than a 1st. are the same people who say Dallas would be dumb to do a long term contract for only 1 pro bowl yr.

 

[Hoofbite]

Mickey said that Romo is counting $17 million and a new contract would drop his cap number in half, basically creating around $8 million in cap space.


Spencer is counting $10 million, and if you give him a long term deal then you are going to drop his cap number to at least $8 million at worst. (probably could drop it even further depending on how much signing bounus you want to prorate). So lets say you save $2 million on the deal and you add that to Romo's deal and you now have $10 million to spend.

$8 million from Romo + $2 million from Spencer = $10 million.


Not fantasy island, just math.

I have to admit. I was a bit taken back when I looked at the pay for DEs around the league. I guess I never really had a significant interest in what they made because most are 4-3 guys and Dallas was in the 3-4. The amount is pretty nuts for some of these guys.

Tyson Jackson	 $17,470,000.00 
Jared Allen	 $17,063,956.00 
Julius Peppers	 $16,183,000.00 
Tamba Hali	 $15,500,000.00 
Will Smith	 $14,541,666.00 
Elvis Dumervil	 $13,623,000.00 
Chris Long	 $13,250,000.00 
Charles Johnson	 $13,000,000.00 
Mario Williams	 $12,400,000.00 
Michael Johnson	 $11,175,000.00 
Antonio Smith	 $9,500,000.00 
Calais Campbell	 $8,750,000.00 
Chris Clemons	 $8,166,667.00 
Justin Smith	 $8,000,000.00 
Red Bryant	 $7,600,000.00

That's the top 15. Pretty nuts, IMO.

When it comes to Spencer, I would agree that Dallas could make his cap number friendly this year. I think the real issue is that next year - and if not - then most certainly the year after his cap number is gonna be in the middle of these guys most likely.

To be quite honest, I'm not sure what to even expect with the guys contract if they work out a long term deal.

The fact that he upped his game significantly is one thing but the fact that he wants to negotiate as a DE is a whole new factor that's upping the ante.

What do you think it would take to sign him?

For that matter, what about Romo? This is undoubtedly his last big payday and while I have said that I personally think he isn't the type of guy who feels he needs every last cent he could get because he probably values some others things, I gotta believe it's gonna be at least a slight bump from the last contract. That was 5-6 years ago.

 

[burmafrd]

Mickey said that Romo is counting $17 million and a new contract would drop his cap number in half, basically creating around $8 million in cap space.


Spencer is counting $10 million, and if you give him a long term deal then you are going to drop his cap number to at least $8 million at worst. (probably could drop it even further depending on how much signing bounus you want to prorate). So lets say you save $2 million on the deal and you add that to Romo's deal and you now have $10 million to spend.

$8 million from Romo + $2 million from Spencer = $10 million.


Not fantasy island, just math.

and of course you know all the numbers. HAH.

When Adam gives his reading fine but otherwise anyone elses numbers are good for a laugh

 

[Beast_from_East]

I have to admit. I was a bit taken back when I looked at the pay for DEs around the league. I guess I never really had a significant interest in what they made because most are 4-3 guys and Dallas was in the 3-4. The amount is pretty nuts for some of these guys.

Tyson Jackson     $17,470,000.00 
Jared Allen     $17,063,956.00 
Julius Peppers     $16,183,000.00 
Tamba Hali     $15,500,000.00 
Will Smith     $14,541,666.00 
Elvis Dumervil     $13,623,000.00 
Chris Long     $13,250,000.00 
Charles Johnson     $13,000,000.00 
Mario Williams     $12,400,000.00 
Michael Johnson     $11,175,000.00 
Antonio Smith     $9,500,000.00 
Calais Campbell     $8,750,000.00 
Chris Clemons     $8,166,667.00 
Justin Smith     $8,000,000.00 
Red Bryant     $7,600,000.00

That's the top 15. Pretty nuts, IMO.

When it comes to Spencer, I would agree that Dallas could make his cap number friendly this year. I think the real issue is that next year - and if not - then most certainly the year after his cap number is gonna be in the middle of these guys most likely.

To be quite honest, I'm not sure what to even expect with the guys contract if they work out a long term deal.

The fact that he upped his game significantly is one thing but the fact that he wants to negotiate as a DE is a whole new factor that's upping the ante.

What do you think it would take to sign him?

For that matter, what about Romo? This is undoubtedly his last big payday and while I have said that I personally think he isn't the type of guy who feels he needs every last cent he could get because he probably values some others things, I gotta believe it's gonna be at least a slight bump from the last contract. That was 5-6 years ago.

I think a new deal is going to average $10-$12 million a season, but you can manipulate the cap charges to be fairly low the first couple of years and then backload it.

Nick Eatman said a while back on Cowboy's break that he was hearing $17 a yr for Romo, which is probably going to be close to the actual deal. Again, it can be backloaded with a large signing bounus to lower the cap charge in the first couple of seasons.

I trust Stephen to work it all out.

 

[Hoofbite]

On a side note I think this is where the rookie wage scale has kind of hurt the trade value of productive veterans.

Prior to the scale some of those tops picks were almost prohibitively bad. Guaranteed 60M without a single down played in the NFL. Even the guys who are rounding out the Top 10 are making decent coin. I think 2010 was the last year without the slotted pay. Spiller was #9 and he came in at $37.5M. Crazy.

Side note. St. Louis picked the wrong year to be completely awful and then draft a QB. Sam Bradford's contract is 4X that of Andrew Luck's. It has 2 additional years but come on, $86M?

In this sense, you're going with a total unknown and committing a TON. Although rare, if you could trade for a proven guy you might pay a little more over all and over the course of the entire contract but you've significantly improved your realistic expectation of production. So maybe you trade a 2nd rounder for a solid starter, move back in the first round to acquire more picks and then lessen that first contract for the rookie 1st rounder.

Incentive was there and perhaps teams could justify letting go of a better pick if they could guarantee that they could acquire more picks while also avoiding that big contract.


Now however, not so much. At most, even the 1st overall pick is only getting average starter money. If you hit on your 1st rounder you've got a ridiculously cheap stud for 4 years. If you miss, you aren't looking at having millions in the toilet.

Incentive to trade for a player......not so much.

On the flip side though, I think there is significantly more incentive to trade players with expiring contracts if you can get the return you want. Can you get an acceptable deal? Who knows?

 

[Beast_from_East]

and of course you know all the numbers. HAH.

When Adam gives his reading fine but otherwise anyone elses numbers are good for a laugh

The numbers for Romo came straight from Mickey, he said on Talking Cowboys that you could cut Romo's cap charge in half.

As for Spencer, it doesnt take a math genius to figure out that if the cap hit is $10.6 million on the tag, that you can reduce the 1st yr cap charge by at least $2 million. How the hell do you think we went from being $20 million over to be under enough to franchise Spencer?

We restructured contracts by converting base salary to signing bounus and then spread the signing bounus out over the lenght of the contract.

You dont need Adam to feed you, alot of this stuff you can figure out yourself.

 

[Howboutdemcowboys31]

I'll eat my shirt if he gets traded.

I really hope he doesn't as I like this shirt. It was a gift from my mom.

I'm stealing this line when betting with people. Thank you

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If he were to go on the FA market then a team that is 3-4 like the Saints are the ones that would make a play on him. Most likely, 4-3 teams are going to have the same concerns that we have. He is a proven OLB not DE.

He may want to negotiate as a DE but the franchise tag reduces his leverage, not increases it. If he wants $12m AAV then let him play through the tag and then he can hit the market at age 30. When agents are trying to gain leverage through the media that tells you something.

I still wouldn't give him up for less than a top 75 pick.

 

[Hoofbite]

I think a new deal is going to average $10-$12 million a season, but you can manipulate the cap charges to be fairly low the first couple of years and then backload it.

Nick Eatman said a while back on Cowboy's break that he was hearing $17 a yr for Romo, which is probably going to be close to the actual deal. Again, it can be backloaded with a large signing bounus to lower the cap charge in the first couple of seasons.

I trust Stephen to work it all out.

The problem with backloading IMO, is that players and agents won't just accept a deal that is so cap friendly up front for the team that it puts so much additional strain in the 3rd year and beyond that it's unlikely that guy will be on the roster.

There's no point in negotiating a 5 year deal for yourself that is worth 60M if you only make it through the first 3 seasons and come away with less than half that much.

That's what Nate Clements did. He signed that big awesome $80M for 8 years contract, played 4 seasons with the 49ers and I'm not sure he made half of it. Not totally sure but he may have only pulled 30M of that contract from the looks of things.

Same with DeAngelo Hall. 7 years, $70M and they cut him like a few months into the first season and he only made $8M of that contract.

I actually never looked at his contract but the Commanders put his entire signing bonus of 16.5M onto the uncapped year, avoiding any proration over the rest of the contract. :laugh2:

Point is, I think backloading is an option if the player is just stupid and doesn't have any means of thinking for himself and has downright horrible representation. If you can't make it to those high base salary years, you're losing out and selling yourself short.

After Clements and Hall there was a lot of discussion about what it would cost to lock up Newman. I thought right away that he'd be an idiot to seek anything like those guys because it backs the team into a corner where they basically have to cut a guy. There isn't enough of a cap burden to prevent the team from doing so, so the player has no security. I'm pretty sure I have a lengthy post on the topic somewhere it made no sense IMO for a player to willingly accept that position. Clements has been sort of fortunate in that he got a good contract from Cincy after he left. $10M for 2 years. But, that $10M is likely at least $5M less than he could have gotten if he would have negotiated a deal that did jump his cap hit from $8M to $17M. There's no way a CB can really play up to that hit. If he would have kept his cap hit at $8M, he may still be in San Francisco and he'd be about $6.5M better off. In the end it didn't work out for Newman because his game fell off to such an extent it's quite saddening. But, had he played out that contract of 6 years - $50M he would have been $10M better off than Nate Clements last 6 years in spite of having signed a contract for nearly $30M less.

You touched on it though. The large signing bonus. That gives the player his insurance of being on the roster because when SBs get large, it makes it a hell of a lot more difficult to cut the guy. If he has 12M in would-be dead money and he has a cap hit of 15M, it's a tough sell because he's conceivably a good player that would cost a lot more than $3M to replace with equal production. You're either forced to take that hit at his position or forced to take that hit on the cap.

So here's the issue, IMO.

If Dallas backloads, it's gonna have to come with more guaranteed money spread out that deters the team from cutting the guy beyond those first two years of low base salaries. I'm honestly shocked there are agents who would dive at those deals. They can't be getting paid for totals if the guy doesn't see all those years, can they? That's robbery if it's the case and flat out poor decision making on behalf of the player. I can't imagine it would take more than a single one of those screw ups to pretty much drag your name through the mud and lose nearly all ability to get high profiled guys.

We agree on the guaranteed money part.

But here's the other aspect, that low base salary in the first year has to go somewhere. It goes to the years after the friendly portion. The friendlier they are now, the meaner they are tomorrow.

When combined with the would-be dead money, the team can't really afford to cut him but all the money saved in the first few years is making his current base salary way high. Unless this player is just a world beater, it's a crappy situation to be in.

 

[Beast_from_East]

The problem with backloading IMO, is that players and agents won't just accept a deal that is so cap friendly up front for the team that it puts so much additional strain in the 3rd year and beyond that it's unlikely that guy will be on the roster.

There's no point in negotiating a 5 year deal for yourself that is worth 60M if you only make it through the first 3 seasons and come away with less than half that much.

That's what Nate Clements did. He signed that big awesome $80M for 8 years contract, played 4 seasons with the 49ers and I'm not sure he made half of it. Not totally sure but he may have only pulled 30M of that contract from the looks of things.

Same with DeAngelo Hall. 7 years, $70M and they cut him like a few months into the first season and he only made $8M of that contract.

I actually never looked at his contract but the Commanders put his entire signing bonus of 16.5M onto the uncapped year, avoiding any proration over the rest of the contract. :laugh2:

Point is, I think backloading is an option if the player is just stupid and doesn't have any means of thinking for himself and has downright horrible representation. If you can't make it to those high base salary years, you're losing out and selling yourself short.

After Clements and Hall there was a lot of discussion about what it would cost to lock up Newman. I thought right away that he'd be an idiot to seek anything like those guys because it backs the team into a corner where they basically have to cut a guy. There isn't enough of a cap burden to prevent the team from doing so, so the player has no security. I'm pretty sure I have a lengthy post on the topic somewhere it made no sense IMO for a player to willingly accept that position. Clements has been sort of fortunate in that he got a good contract from Cincy after he left. $10M for 2 years. But, that $10M is likely at least $5M less than he could have gotten if he would have negotiated a deal that did jump his cap hit from $8M to $17M. There's no way a CB can really play up to that hit. If he would have kept his cap hit at $8M, he may still be in San Francisco and he'd be about $6.5M better off. In the end it didn't work out for Newman because his game fell off to such an extent it's quite saddening. But, had he played out that contract of 6 years - $50M he would have been $10M better off than Nate Clements last 6 years in spite of having signed a contract for nearly $30M less.

You touched on it though. The large signing bonus. That gives the player his insurance of being on the roster because when SBs get large, it makes it a hell of a lot more difficult to cut the guy. If he has 12M in would-be dead money and he has a cap hit of 15M, it's a tough sell because he's conceivably a good player that would cost a lot more than $3M to replace with equal production. You're either forced to take that hit at his position or forced to take that hit on the cap.

So here's the issue, IMO.

If Dallas backloads, it's gonna have to come with more guaranteed money spread out that deters the team from cutting the guy beyond those first two years of low base salaries. I'm honestly shocked there are agents who would dive at those deals. They can't be getting paid for totals if the guy doesn't see all those years, can they? That's robbery if it's the case and flat out poor decision making on behalf of the player. I can't imagine it would take more than a single one of those screw ups to pretty much drag your name through the mud and lose nearly all ability to get high profiled guys.

We agree on the guaranteed money part.

But here's the other aspect, that low base salary in the first year has to go somewhere. It goes to the years after the friendly portion. The friendlier they are now, the meaner they are tomorrow.

When combined with the would-be dead money, the team can't really afford to cut him but all the money saved in the first few years is making his current base salary way high. Unless this player is just a world beater, it's a crappy situation to be in.

Excellent points!

You are right that Romo and Spener are not going to take cheap deals. In order to agree to a backloaded deal, we either are going to have to pay a very large signing bonus or guarantee a large portion of the money.

Luckly Jerry never has had a problem pulling out the checkbook.