Anyone else think the Joneses sounded insane in the pressers?

[Nightman]

Clearly.

It clearly isn't. Ware-Ratliff-Hatcher-Spencer is very good.

 

[NJ22]

This presser? Or all pressers? Must be the first one you've watched. They are generally a rambling montage of incoherent incomplete sentences. This one was no different.

...with the line about there being myriad trade charts and that they change from team to team and year to year and round to round and according to the position of venus in the night sky and whether or not papa john's is running a special deal that day?

...and with the line about stephen being an engineer trying to forecast oil prices 15 years out from now and only god knowing what those would be?

...and the line about there being 14 starters, so guys like escobar and terrence williams and webb and wilcox and randle are amazing value because they're all starters?

must have been a very awkward tension in that room, with the media trying to keep their cool.

i mean, why couldn't they just say, "things didn't work out as well as we had hoped; some of the guys we liked were taken before our turn and, on the trade down, san fran had us over a barrel and, well, we had to take someone and, hey, these guys are pretty good so, like, how about giving them a chance before you judge us, okay?"

 

[TheCount]

I've read quite a few post-draft quotes from Jerry that sound like complete gibberish. I'm sure they make sense in his head, but between trying to be honest but not TOO honest, he ends up spewing these half finished thoughts that make it really tough to follow his train of thought.

 

[JPostSam]

oh, i get that teams value picks differently, just like they value players differently.

what makes no sense is the idea that getting 31 and 74 for 18 was good value when other teams were getting much more for moving less. by definition, it is not good value when others are willing to spend more and receive less. i don't need a chart to know that. no one does.

and the answer to that can't be just, "well, then, that team got ripped off."

because the immediate follow-up question to that is obviously, "well, if you're so good at making trades, why couldn't you 'rip off' some team in the same way?"

crickets.

 

[JPostSam]

i also get that it takes 3 CBs today, and 2 TEs, etc.

but to say that more than half of your players are starters just obliterates the meaning of the word.

 

[SuspectCorner]

I followed it entirely. Made sense to me. But I understand how decline curves on oil and gas wells work, so maybe it was easier for me to follow.

I didn't think they sounded 'insane'. They just, not unnaturally, fell back on the familar to them reference point of the drillin' bidness in explaining the reasons for their actions - drawing an analgous relationship between that bidness and football. A relationship that those of us NOT having been involved in the oil-and-gas wildcattin' bidness might struggle to comprehend. Do the Joneses have a press secretary? They can sure afford one.

 

[BHendri5]

Yes!DL is one of them.

NO IT IS NOT

 

[JPostSam]

I didn't think they sounded 'insane'. They just, not unnaturally, fell back on the familar to them reference point of the drillin' bidness in explaining the reasons for their actions - drawing an analgous relationship between that bidness and football. A relationship that those of us NOT having been involved in the oil-and-gas wildcattin' bidness might struggle to comprehend. Do the Joneses have a press secretary? They can sure afford one.

it has nothing to do with oil.

look, they can make a chart that says nickels are worth 12 cents -- but if people will only pay you 5 cents for them, your chart has accomplished nothing.

on the other hand, if you make a chart that says nickels are only worth 3 cents -- well, the good folks all around the league will rush to buy up all the nickels you've got.

 

[SuspectCorner]

it has nothing to do with oil.

look, they can make a chart that says nickels are worth 12 cents -- but if people will only pay you 5 cents for them, your chart has accomplished nothing.

on the other hand, if you make a chart that says nickels are only worth 3 cents -- well, the good folks all around the league will rush to buy up all the nickels you've got.

Okay, without revisiting that particular presser, I'm willing to concede 'it has nothing to do with oil.' But the Joneses definitely used the drilling bidness to form an anology tying the drafting of college football players to natural resource exploration. And I doubt you'll disagree that a value can be placed on those natural resources - even if that value is fluid and predicated upon individually perceived likelihood of yield. Individually perceived value. This is "hair splittin'", my friend - semantics.

My reply to the OP suggested that the Joneses might have used a more commonly held point of reference to form their anology. A common point of reference for laymen... you know... the plurality of us.

That's all. Peace.

 

[JPostSam]

Okay, without revisiting that particular presser, I'm willing to concede 'it has nothing to do with oil.' But the Joneses definitely used the drilling bidness to form an anology tying the drafting of college football players to natural resource exploration. And I doubt you'll disagree that a value can be placed on those natural resources - even if that value is fluid and predicated upon individually perceived likelihood of yield. Individually perceived value. This is "hair splittin'", my friend - semantics.

My reply to the OP suggested that the Joneses might have used a more commonly held point of reference to form their anology. A common point of reference for laymen... you know... the plurality of us.

That's all. Peace.

i understand the analogy. i'm saying that they're misusing it... or, if you prefer, that they simply did a bad job of gauging value for that fluid asset (a first round draft pick).

 

[Fansince64]

I think they backed up their actions with a lot of reasonable explanations. They clearly have an idea about what type of team they want to build and what the biggest needs were(and no, DL is not one of them).

You SERIOUSLY believe this???? Really??? Jerry??? OMG, talk about believing in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy!!!



Monte Sliger

 

[Idgit]

You SERIOUSLY believe this???? Really??? Jerry??? OMG, talk about believing in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy!!!


Monte Sliger

You really don't? I don't see how anyone can listen to a whole three seasons of Jason Garrett and not come away with the obvious understanding that he's got a very, very clear idea of what team he wants to build.

 

[Nightman]

You SERIOUSLY believe this???? Really??? Jerry??? OMG, talk about believing in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy!!!



Monte Sliger

Give me a break. You haven't been paying attention. The last few drafts have been very good and the team is loaded with young talent. Your immature response is better served tomorrow at your Middle School lunch table.

 

[SuspectCorner]

i understand the analogy. i'm saying that they're misusing it... or, if you prefer, that they simply did a bad job of gauging value for that fluid asset (a first round draft pick).

Nothing in this or any other future draft is a given. I get your opinion of the first round trade-down. You've placed your bet. I've placed mine. More importantly, the organization has placed theirs...

The wheel is spinning - and will for two-to-three years...

 

[Fansince64]

Give me a break. You haven't been paying attention. The last few drafts have been very good and the team is loaded with young talent. Your immature response is better served tomorrow at your Middle School lunch table.

I never said that the team hasn't acquired talent in the last 3 drafts. They have. But if you believe that Jerry has any kind of coherent plan for this team, you are living in fantasy land. Building a team is a combination of having a plan and acquiring talent to fit that plan - talent alone is not the be-all end-all. Hence 6-10, 8-8 and 8-8.

As for middle school lunches, mine ended before Dallas won its first super bowl. Perhaps you remember them much better (being more recent for you). My user name tells you how long I have been rooting for this team.


Monte Sliger

 

[Nightman]

I never said that the team hasn't acquired talent in the last 3 drafts. They have. But if you believe that Jerry has any kind of coherent plan for this team, you are living in fantasy land. Building a team is a combination of having a plan and acquiring talent to fit that plan - talent alone is not the be-all end-all. Hence 6-10, 8-8 and 8-8.

As for middle school lunches, mine ended before Dallas won its first super bowl. Perhaps you remember them much better (being more recent for you). My user name tells you how long I have been rooting for this team.


Monte Sliger

If you've been a fan that long then you should even be more embarrassed by your response. If you lived thru Campo, Gailey and Parcells/Wade, then you know the team is on the upswing. Guys like Lee, Bryant, Carter, Murray, Claiborne, TSmith, Church have blended in with Ware, Spencer, Romo, Witten, Miles and Ratliff to form a very solid squad. I love this draft and I'm excited to see what a healthy Romo led offense and Kiffin led defense can do.

 

[Fansince64]

If you've been a fan that long then you should even be more embarrassed by your response. If you lived thru Campo, Gailey and Parcells/Wade, then you know the team is on the upswing. Guys like Lee, Bryant, Carter, Murray, Claiborne, TSmith, Church have blended in with Ware, Spencer, Romo, Witten, Miles and Ratliff to form a very solid squad. I love this draft and I'm excited to see what a healthy Romo led offense and Kiffin led defense can do.

Perhaps you are right. Maybe the fact that for 25 years I got to see a well run organization with clearly defined roles for different people (Tex as GM and head of talent acquisition supported by Brandt as head of scouting/player personnel and Landry as coach) has made me overly critical of this organizational ship wreck. Then for 5 years after Jerry bought the team I got to see a completely different type of organization with basically one decision maker who knew what he wanted, how to acquire it and how to put it together once he had it. This structure also worked very well - mainly because Jimmy was the decision maker for any football matters and during the building process he was intimately familiar with most of the players coming out of college. Then since Jimmy left, we have Jerry making all decisions "from socks to jocks" (his words, not mine). His record speaks for itself.

As far as Jerry goes, I'm not one of these people who believe he has never made a good decision. You can look at the 2003 draft when Parcells wanted Dwayne Robertson (bust) and then after Robertson went right before our pick Bill wanted Jimmy Kennedy (bust) but Jerry overruled him and picked Terence Newman. Or 2005 when Bill wanted Marcus Spears and after Jerry made it plain they were taking a pass rusher at 11, Bill favored Shawn Merriman before Jerry went with Demarcus Ware. My problem is that on the whole, Jerry's bad decisions totally overwhelm his good ones. I believe this is rooted in Jerry making decisions without an overall plan to go by. His plan changes depending on which coach/scout/drinking buddy he talked to last (or maybe just which one is loudest).

I absolutely agree we have upgraded the overall talent on the team since the 2009 draft disaster in spite of Jerry (hence my statement that talent is not everything). However, "on the upswing" means nothing until it translates to better play and/or more wins. This has to do with how well coaches and players are able to minimize the handicap Jerry's lack of any plan places on the team. Maybe this is the year .....

I'll believe it when I see it.


Monte Sliger

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Dallas has the two best DE combination in the NFL.


To a point it's complaining that makes people look lost.

Anyone can be questioned, I've had my fair share of questions but there is reasonable understanding about the picks and how they will have a very positive effect on Romo.

 

[Miller]

Sorry, as a fan for 37 years now I have no clue what direction this team is going in. Those who say they do...well I'm not sure where its coming from. The reason is they change year to year and Jerry spouts whatever the public wants to hear. I'm truly convinced watching the first round and the war room feeds that they got caught with their pants down in Round 1. While the other rounds produced guys who seem talented, they also are raw in some cases and we still need D-line help for the aging men we have now and safety and more Oline. The offense has changed or has been subject to change every year. So do I think Garrett has a master plan and this is his path after a new D coordinator came in? No. He was emasculated in the draft that first round while Red Face worked the phones. Do I hope that somehow all this works out and this mish mash of whatever works out..without a doubt. You have to. But we have gone from a team wanting to use Barber, Felix and Choice to control games, to a team trying to be more balanced to a team that throws way too much and puts Romo in danger to people saying now that the master plan was to be more NE like. OK, whatever makes you happy.

 

[trueblue1687]

...with the line about there being myriad trade charts and that they change from team to team and year to year and round to round and according to the position of venus in the night sky and whether or not papa john's is running a special deal that day?

...and with the line about stephen being an engineer trying to forecast oil prices 15 years out from now and only god knowing what those would be?

...and the line about there being 14 starters, so guys like escobar and terrence williams and webb and wilcox and randle are amazing value because they're all starters?

must have been a very awkward tension in that room, with the media trying to keep their cool.

i mean, why couldn't they just say, "things didn't work out as well as we had hoped; some of the guys we liked were taken before our turn and, on the trade down, san fran had us over a barrel and, well, we had to take someone and, hey, these guys are pretty good so, like, how about giving them a chance before you judge us, okay?"

The first part of your post is just a fact...every team values the spots in the draft differently...I've heard this in years past from a few other teams and analysts. 'Value' is subjective, not objective

The engineer line is an analogy. Nothing more there...he was just talking about forecasting generally and how it is used.

The 'starter' part was actually very true as well: I took it as him saying you needed more than just the 11 names on paper to be starter caliber. Parcells was famous for that line of thinking. To him it didn't matter who was the starter on paper...it was simply just who began the game and not necessarily equated to anything else (meaning that not everyone else is simply a 'role' player).

Suggesting that the team had to settle for th3 pick at 31 because they 'were over a barrel' is absurd. You honestly think ANYONE would smear their pick on a personal level like that as well as throw the whole war room under a bus??