Are Hybrid cars the future?

[rags747]

New Prius looks dynamite, much more powerful as well. Got the wife a 2nd gen back in 07, daughter was in HS and that’s all she was learning at the time so I figured why not. Great mileage but sounded like a sewing machine at full speed. New one supposed to be much improved in looks and engine performance.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

I nearly bought a hybrid myself, but I chose not to because to afford one, I would have had to go with an older car than I would prefer. I also don't think the hybrids will be the future because they're much more pushing the EVs and getting the infrastructure in place for it. The purpose of a hybrid was so that you can drive electric, but you can always fall back on gasoline if need be. I suspect hybrids will go the way of the Betamax since they're pushing EVs so much more, but I could be wrong.

 

[thunderpimp91]

I think hybrids are the now. More of them are on the roads than you probably realize, and it seems a ton of companies are buying hybrids as company cars/trucks right now.

The future, and I think it's closer than people think is still the EV movement. Pricing is starting to come down on these, charging stations are becoming more and more readily available, and the battery technology is so much better in newer models. Not to mention that most EVs are just extremely fun to drive. I think it's just a matter educating the public on some of the misconceptions and continuing to get more charging stations up and going.

 

[Doomsday]

Ford lost about $4.7 billion on EVs last year and projects losses in the range of $5 billion to $5.5 billion this year​

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/ford-profits-getting-eaten-up-evs

 

[Jammer]

I don't think they are the future. Too much of a push to go all electric and eliminate ICE vehicles. If I was in the market for a new car I would seriously look into the plug in hybrids. I think it's the best option currently of both worlds.

 

[The Fonz]

We might even have hybrid people in the near future.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

As long as EVs are as expensive as they are, only morons will think they are the future
Hybrids are cheaper but still a lot more expensive then a cheap gas vehicle; it would take a decade or more to make up in gas savings what the hybrid cost you
Bottom line is that until they are economical to buy they will be a niche market
and there are legal challenges to some of the attempts to make ICE vehicles illegal

One thing that's also affecting the market is the fact that more people are working from home and therefore driving less. Before the pandemic, a lot of people where I work (in Omaha, NE) were pushing for work from home. Our Minneapolis office has had that for over a decade. That way they don't have to drive in blizzards or insanely cold weather. Our argument was that we have that here, even if it's not quite as cold as in Minny. The pandemic, for all its awful problems, finally got us the work from home that we wanted.
...
Now, as a result, I don't drive anywhere near as much as I used to. Now my commute consists of walking from one side of my apartment to the other. I only drive on weekends. Because of this, I haven't put on anywhere near as many miles on my car as I used to, and I bought this thing shortly before the pandemic. In other words, this thing's not going to depreciate as fast as previous cars I've owned. It's a gasoline-powered Honda Civic. I test drove Civic hybrids, but the ones I could afford were older than I was comfortable with. Since I've never owned a hybrid, I wasn't sure how long that driving battery would be good, and I hear they're insanely expensive to replace. The long and short of it is, I'm going to be in this gasoline-powered car for quite a while. Switching to a hybrid or an EV simply does not make good economic sense at this time. I only drive this car about once a week. I do drive it more if I take a road trip.
...
I'm not one of the people who say they never want an EV or a hybrid no matter what. My brother has one of those EV Tessla's, and it's nice. I'm just not going to need to replace my car for a long time, as long as I don't wreck it. That's unlikely since I drive it so infrequently. There are probably a lot of people like me out there who don't drive all that much anymore. That's accomplishing what a lot of people have been pushing for. When you don't drive very much, that means less CO2s into the air. I give it at least 5 years before I'm in the market for another car, and probably longer.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I nearly bought a hybrid myself, but I chose not to because to afford one, I would have had to go with an older car than I would prefer. I also don't think the hybrids will be the future because they're much more pushing the EVs and getting the infrastructure in place for it. The purpose of a hybrid was so that you can drive electric, but you can always fall back on gasoline if need be. I suspect hybrids will go the way of the Betamax since they're pushing EVs so much more, but I could be wrong.

I think you’re safe buying a hybrid. I can’t imagine a scenario across the country where EV infrastructure is anywhere close to comparable of gas stations for the next 15-20 years.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Agreed. I don’t know why most automakers haven’t gone full hybrid, let alone plug-in hybrid for all their models yet.

If I was in the market for a new car I would seriously look into the plug in hybrids. I think it's the best option currently of both worlds.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Ford lost about $4.7 billion on EVs last year and projects losses in the range of $5 billion to $5.5 billion this year​

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/ford-profits-getting-eaten-up-evs

Ford sucks at pretty much everything they do. They are sustained by fleet sales.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I think hybrids are the now. More of them are on the roads than you probably realize, and it seems a ton of companies are buying hybrids as company cars/trucks right now.

The future, and I think it's closer than people think is still the EV movement. Pricing is starting to come down on these, charging stations are becoming more and more readily available, and the battery technology is so much better in newer models. Not to mention that most EVs are just extremely fun to drive. I think it's just a matter educating the public on some of the misconceptions and continuing to get more charging stations up and going.

I wouldn’t buy a Tesla, but I just read an article yesterday that they lowered the price of the Model Y to below $35K. That’s a price-point accessible to most middle-class incomes.

Elon is also deadly afraid of China EV makers coming ashore domestically because they have drastically reduced the cost of EVs because they control (in-house) manufacturing of the batteries which is generally the costliest part of EV making. He’s afraid if they are allowed in the U.S. it will undercut the pricing of domestic offerings.

https://www.businessinsider.in/thel...heir-us-rivals-/amp_articleshow/107365459.cms

 

[rags747]

I wouldn’t buy a Tesla, but I just read an article yesterday that they lowered the price of the Model Y to below $35K. That’s a price-point accessible to most middle-class incomes.

Elon is also deadly afraid of China EV makers coming ashore domestically because they have drastically reduced the cost of EVs because they control (in-house) manufacturing of the batteries which is generally the costliest part of EV making. He’s afraid if they are allowed in the U.S. it will undercut the pricing of domestic offerings.

https://www.businessinsider.in/thel...heir-us-rivals-/amp_articleshow/107365459.cms

China would/will put all US EV manufacturers out of business, maybe even Tesla. Elon has already stated on numerous occasions that the Chinese labor force is willing, able and does put the US labor force to shame. Building cars in the US vs China is just not competitive at all.

 

[thunderpimp91]

I think you’re safe buying a hybrid. I can’t imagine a scenario across the country where EV infrastructure is anywhere close to comparable of gas stations for the next 15-20 years.

I think this is where people go wrong in terms of EVs. The infrastructure really doesn’t need to look like gas stations do today. 80% of EV charging is done at the home and that number will only go up as houses are built with dedicated 240v outlets in the garages and apartment complexes install more charging stations. You really only need the gas station approach for long distance travel. Outside of renters without access to home charging Anyone with a one way commute under 100 miles has no need to stop and charge.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

I think you’re safe buying a hybrid. I can’t imagine a scenario across the country where EV infrastructure is anywhere close to comparable of gas stations for the next 15-20 years.

The situation with EV charging states doesn't have to be as manifold as it is now with current gas stations. Right now there are enough EV charging stations to effectively drive across most parts of the country without inconvenience. Plus, the infrastructure will improve, and when you're just driving in your home area you can charge at your home. My brother had no problems driving all the way from San Francisco to northern Texas. He's also driven up to Nebraska from Texas to see me. He had no problems. The maps of all the charging stations are programmed into his navigation system, so he can easily find the next one long before his charge runs out. If I lived in North Dakota, however, I would not buy an EV right now. They still have a ways to go to get enough charging stations in that state.
...
My reason for not buying an EV right now is that I don't need another car, and I won't for some time. My gasoline-powered Honda Civic only has about 44K miles on it, and I don't drive all that much. It should last me quite a while. I expect that the earliest I might need to shop for a car would be 5 years from now, and it may very well be much longer than that. If I do go for an EV when I eventually need another car, it will be based on what the EV situation is at that time, not how it is now.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I think this is where people go wrong in terms of EVs. The infrastructure really doesn’t need to look like gas stations do today. 80% of EV charging is done at the home and that number will only go up as houses are built with dedicated 240v outlets in the garages and apartment complexes install more charging stations. You really only need the gas station approach for long distance travel. Outside of renters without access to home charging Anyone with a one way commute under 100 miles has no need to stop and charge.

Those are really good points. The wheelhouse for EVs are driving in the city/short commutes That said, I think the lack of infrastructure is a differentiator for people that want to travel long distances (SF to LA, Dallas to Austin/San Antonio, interstate, et cetera).

 

[thunderpimp91]

Those are really good points. The wheelhouse for EVs are driving in the city/short commutes That said, I think the lack of infrastructure is a differentiator for people that want to travel long distances (SF to LA, Dallas to Austin/San Antonio, interstate, et cetera).

Agree completely. Long distance travel with an EV still has a ways to go. Most major metro areas are most of the way there but all the rural areas in between are nightmares for travelers. The other issue I see is with older EVs that don’t have heat pumps for the batteries. These older models do terrible in colder weather and back up charging stations in the winter.

 

[1942willys]

Agree completely. Long distance travel with an EV still has a ways to go. Most major metro areas are most of the way there but all the rural areas in between are nightmares for travelers. The other issue I see is with older EVs that don’t have heat pumps for the batteries. These older models do terrible in colder weather and back up charging stations in the winter.

The current generation of EV batteries are better in cold weather but still some basic problems are there. Not mentioned by the EV fanatics of course.
I think in places that have real cold weather like the Dakotas and Montana will be problematic for EVs until the next generation.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

DO NOT START WITH THE PETTY ARGUMEMTS AND INSULTS.

I think the charging stations are a little more widespread than initially thought.

I figured it would be years before I would see on in the small rural town I live in, or just outside of, however to my shock there were about 8 tesla charging stations in a Sheetz gas station off to the side. Now I do not know if they would work for all EVs or just Teslas but either way it was shocking in such a small town. So as I stated earlier, I do not think it is a sparse as some, including myself, think it is.

Due to complicated health issues, the wife and her mother share a lexus hybrid. They have been shocked at how good the gas mileage is on it. They can tell the difference between that and the Nissan and Ford (both non hybrids) they have or do drive.

 

[Silver Surfer]

Nice idea, but if they don't improve the technology, there's going to be too many problems for many people to get on board. The cost to set up home chargers, the limited life span of batteries and the cost to replace batteries are just the start.

Poor performance in very cold weather (Minnesota in winter) and charging problems in a mass exodus situation (think hurricane evacuations) pose serious problems on a much grander scale.

 

[morasp]

I had a hybrid and wouldn't buy another. As far as EVs go the industry is still in it's infancy. There are new innovations coming out all the time;. For example CATL just announced a new battery design that could charge to 80% of full in 15 minutes. I grew up in Montana and if you wanted your car to start in the winter plugging it in overnight was a necessity and similar to the pre conditioning that EVs need before charging in cold weather. I live about six miles from the closest town and toyed with the idea of picking up a used Nissan Leaf that sill had 100 miles of range for under $10k but there are a bunch of very affordable models scheduled to be available in 2024-2025. Another interesting idea that I first saw with the Ford Lightning is Bi Directional charging that allows you to use your car to power your house during outages. EVs have big batteries that could run your house for an extended period of time and stand alone back up systems (battery or generator) can get very expensive.