Are we running the West Coast Offense now???

Spontae

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While not really a WCO copy, our offense, when running correctly, can take advantage of the strengths of T.O. and our TEs over the middle, which in turn opens up the running lanes. Also, something that definitely can work to our advantage now is Romo's "escapability," which can turn even a broken pass play into a long gain.
 

VACowboy

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I think zone blocking is also a bigy part of the WCO.

We ran lots of short passes because of the vaunted Carolina DL and the desire to avoid a repeat of last Monday night. Every time TG or TO ran a fly he got railroaded out of bounds. They can't let that happen.
 

BigWillie

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Doomsday101;1132137 said:
We run some routs that are used in the WCO but then all teams do. Dallas is still using a 2 TE set which is not part of the WCO and we are still using a balance of run and pass which you don't see much of in a WCO

Actually, not true.

In the version of the WCO that Oakland used under Bill Callahan (and the version he still uses at Nebraska) the base set they use features a 2 TE formation.

But our offense really is not comparable. The WCO features alot of quick, short timing routes. But it also features quite a bit of motion to create mismatches and exploit holes in the defense. In our offense, we do not use alot of motion, at all.
 

Doomsday101

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BigWillie;1132648 said:
Actually, not true.

In the version of the WCO that Oakland used under Bill Callahan (and the version he still uses at Nebraska) the base set they use features a 2 TE formation.

But our offense really is not comparable. The WCO features alot of quick, short timing routes. But it also features quite a bit of motion to create mismatches and exploit holes in the defense. In our offense, we do not use alot of motion, at all.

1st off that is not the true WCO and Bill Walsh has said no one really runs the pure version of the WCO there are many variation but having said that Dallas still does not run the WCO we run some routs that are used in the WCO but then so does everyone
 

YosemiteSam

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Doomsday101;1132655 said:
1st off that is not the true WCO and Bill Walsh has said no one really runs the pure version of the WCO there are many variation but having said that Dallas still does not run the WCO we run some routs that are used in the WCO but then so does everyone

Funny thing is so many times Bill Walsh gets credit for the West Coast Offense. He didn't create it. He (with the 49ers) just popularized it.

The true creator of the West Coast Offense (in a sense or at least the seed that started it) was Don Coryell while with the St. Louis Cardinals from 1973-1977 and then the San Diego Chargers from 1978-1986.

Don Coryell created what is now called the "Air Coryell" offense and it begot the West Coast Offense. (Which was named by Bernie Kosar in an ESPN interview talking about the West Coast Teams that used it. (Raiders and Chargers Coryell and his ex assistant with the Raiders) Not the Bengals where Walsh was an assistant and then on to the 49ers.
 

ringmaster

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BigWillie;1132648 said:
Actually, not true.

In the version of the WCO that Oakland used under Bill Callahan (and the version he still uses at Nebraska) the base set they use features a 2 TE formation.

But our offense really is not comparable. The WCO features alot of quick, short timing routes. But it also features quite a bit of motion to create mismatches and exploit holes in the defense. In our offense, we do not use alot of motion, at all.
We really don't run a WCO, but as many posters said the routes are the same within the confines of any offense in the NFL.

It's a timing offense now with Romo, starting and was much of a vertical passing offense with Bledsoe, starting the difference is arm strength something Bledsoe excells at and it's the quick release and accuracy of Romo.

Drew, has a great deep ball arm as compared to Tony, who is not to shabby but his deep ball tends to sail in the air as compared to Bledsoe, who can get his downfield with more velocity the only thing I wish if it was possible to give Romo, Bledsoe's deep ball arm because he has some nice accuracy.

But it's more of a timing based pass offense now kinda like the offense we ran in the 90s, but a little different and like one poster said earlier the reason we didn't take shots down the field Sunday because the Panthers, played alot of Cover 2, to take away T.O., and Glenn and Witten, made them pay for it the offense as some of us now know is begining to open up with Romo, because the TEs, are becoming more invovled in the passing game.

One more thing about the WCO, we don't throw alot of passes to the RBs occassional screens here and there but we don't put too much of a premium on throwing to RBs and we tend to run the ball more than a pure WCO offensive team our offense is much more hybrid and very dynamic.

You make a valid point here look at Green Bay, Minnesota, and Seattle the all run the WCO, but use alot of 2TE formations, and run the ball alot.
 

ringmaster

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nyc;1132694 said:
Funny thing is so many times Bill Walsh gets credit for the West Coast Offense. He didn't create it. He (with the 49ers) just popularized it.

The true creator of the West Coast Offense (in a sense or at least the seed that started it) was Don Coryell while with the St. Louis Cardinals from 1973-1977 and then the San Diego Chargers from 1978-1986.

Don Coryell created what is now called the "Air Coryell" offense and it begot the West Coast Offense. (Which was named by Bernie Kosar in an ESPN interview talking about the West Coast Teams that used it. (Raiders and Chargers Coryell and his ex assistant with the Raiders) Not the Bengals where Walsh was an assistant and then on to the 49ers.
Good point because we ran a version of the Don Coryell offense in the 90s, under Norv Turner, and Ernie Zampese disciples of that offense and won three SBs using it but the offense we run today kinda mimics the Don Coryell offense.

Good call.
 

Doomsday101

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nyc;1132694 said:
Funny thing is so many times Bill Walsh gets credit for the West Coast Offense. He didn't create it. He (with the 49ers) just popularized it.

The true creator of the West Coast Offense (in a sense or at least the seed that started it) was Don Coryell while with the St. Louis Cardinals from 1973-1977 and then the San Diego Chargers from 1978-1986.

Don Coryell created what is now called the "Air Coryell" offense and it begot the West Coast Offense. (Which was named by Bernie Kosar in an ESPN interview talking about the West Coast Teams that used it. (Raiders and Chargers Coryell and his ex assistant with the Raiders) Not the Bengals where Walsh was an assistant and then on to the 49ers.


Sid Gillman is the man who came up with the WCO
History:
The term "West Coast Offense" derives from a 1993 Bernie Kosar quote, publicized by Sports Illustrated writer Paul Zimmerman, aka "Dr. Z". It means the offense used by two west coast teams, the Chargers and Raiders, and not the 1980s-era 49ers attack. A reporter mistakenly grouped these and the name stuck in association with the offense of Bill Walsh.

Kosar used the term to describe the offense formalized by Sid Gillman with the AFL Chargers in the 1960s and later by Don Coryell's St. Louis Cardinals and San Diego Chargers in the 1970s and 1980s. Al Davis, an assistant under Gillman, also carried his version to the Oakland Raiders, where his successors John Rauch, John Madden, and Tom Flores continued to employ and expand upon its basic principles. This is the "West Coast Offense" as Kosar originally used the term.

Walsh formulated what has become popularly known as the West Coast Offense during his tenure as assistant coach for the Cincinnati Bengals from 1968-75, while working under the tutelage of mentor Paul Brown. Walsh installed a modified version of this system when he became head coach of the San Francisco 49ers. Walsh's 49ers won three Super Bowls during this period, and as a result, the majority of casual football fans perceive Walsh's version to be the "West Coast Offense".

Several of Walsh's coordinators went on to successfully implement this system at other teams. George Seifert won two Super Bowls with the 49ers. Mike Shanahan won two Super Bowls in Denver. Mike Holmgren won a Super Bowl in Green Bay and coached in another with Seattle. Holmgren's assistent Jon Gruden went on to win a Super Bowl at Tampa Bay.


[edit] Theory
The popular term "West Coast Offense" as a general concept is more of a philosophy and an approach to the game than it is a set of plays or formations. Traditional offensive thinking argues that a team must establish their running game first, which will draw the defense in and open up vertical passing lanes downfield (passing lanes that run perpendicular to the line of scrimmage). Walsh's "West Coast Offense", on the contrary, stipulates that a defense must first be stretched with a short, horizontal passing attack that features sharp, precisely-run pass patterns by the receivers and quick, 3-step and 5-step drops by the quarterback. This stretching will then open up running lanes for the backs to exploit. In theory, this makes the offensive play calling unpredictable and keeps a defense's play "honest" because most down and distance situations can be attacked with the pass or run in Walsh's "West Coast Offense".

Beyond this basic principle of passing to set up the run, there are few rules that govern Walsh's "WCO". Originally the offense used two split backs, giving it an uneven alignment in which five players aligned to one side of the ball and four players aligned on the other side (with the quarterback and center directly behind the ball). Although Walsh-influenced "WCO" teams now commonly use formations with more or fewer than two backs, the offense's unevenness is still reflected in its pass protection philosophy and continues to distinguish it from single back passing offenses. Throughout the years, coaches have added to, adjusted, modified, simplified, and enhanced Bill Walsh's original adaptation of the Paul Brown offense. Formations and plays vary greatly, as does play calling.

A Walsh innovation in his "WCO" was scripting the first 15 offensive plays of the game. Scripting had several valuable assets. First, the offensive team knew that the first 15 plays would be run as scripted no matter what, allowing them to practice the plays to perfection, minimizing mistakes and penalties. Success of the offense could establish momentum and dictate the flow of the game. Scripting added an element of surprise, since a defense who had a 3rd and long could be caught off guard by a scripted play that had no relationship to the current situation. It also gave the coaching staff an opportunity to run test plays against the defense to gauge their reactions in game situations. Later in the game, an observed tendency in a certain situation by the opposing defense could be exploited.

Another key part of the Walsh "WCO" was "pass first, run later." It was Walsh's intention to gain an early lead by passing the ball, then run the ball on a tired defense late in the game, wearing them down further and running down the clock. The San Francisco 49ers under Walsh often executed this very effectively.

The original West Coast Offense of Sid Gillman uses some of the same principles (pass to establish the run, quarterback throws to timed spots), but offensive formations are generally less complicated with more wideouts and motion. The timed spots are often farther downfield than in the Walsh-style offense, and the system requires a greater reliance on traditional pocket passing.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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nyc;1132694 said:
Funny thing is so many times Bill Walsh gets credit for the West Coast Offense. He didn't create it. He (with the 49ers) just popularized it.

The true creator of the West Coast Offense (in a sense or at least the seed that started it) was Don Coryell while with the St. Louis Cardinals from 1973-1977 and then the San Diego Chargers from 1978-1986.

Don Coryell created what is now called the "Air Coryell" offense and it begot the West Coast Offense. (Which was named by Bernie Kosar in an ESPN interview talking about the West Coast Teams that used it. (Raiders and Chargers Coryell and his ex assistant with the Raiders) Not the Bengals where Walsh was an assistant and then on to the 49ers.

Think again. The WCO is actually a derivative of the old Ohio Offense, created by Paul Brown. Coryell, himself and offensive genius, IMO, learned much of what he new from Sid Gillman, who learned it from Weeb Eubanks, who learned it from, you guessed it, Paul Brown.

Walsh actually learned his football from Brown, while he was in Cincinnati but it all sort of comes back to the same source.

Paul Brown was a pretty amazing guy IMO.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Doomsday101;1132760 said:
Sid Gillman is the man who came up with the WCO
History:
The term "West Coast Offense" derives from a 1993 Bernie Kosar quote, publicized by Sports Illustrated writer Paul Zimmerman, aka "Dr. Z". It means the offense used by two west coast teams, the Chargers and Raiders, and not the 1980s-era 49ers attack. A reporter mistakenly grouped these and the name stuck in association with the offense of Bill Walsh.

Kosar used the term to describe the offense formalized by Sid Gillman with the AFL Chargers in the 1960s and later by Don Coryell's St. Louis Cardinals and San Diego Chargers in the 1970s and 1980s. Al Davis, an assistant under Gillman, also carried his version to the Oakland Raiders, where his successors John Rauch, John Madden, and Tom Flores continued to employ and expand upon its basic principles. This is the "West Coast Offense" as Kosar originally used the term.

Walsh formulated what has become popularly known as the West Coast Offense during his tenure as assistant coach for the Cincinnati Bengals from 1968-75, while working under the tutelage of mentor Paul Brown. Walsh installed a modified version of this system when he became head coach of the San Francisco 49ers. Walsh's 49ers won three Super Bowls during this period, and as a result, the majority of casual football fans perceive Walsh's version to be the "West Coast Offense".

Several of Walsh's coordinators went on to successfully implement this system at other teams. George Seifert won two Super Bowls with the 49ers. Mike Shanahan won two Super Bowls in Denver. Mike Holmgren won a Super Bowl in Green Bay and coached in another with Seattle. Holmgren's assistent Jon Gruden went on to win a Super Bowl at Tampa Bay.


[edit] Theory
The popular term "West Coast Offense" as a general concept is more of a philosophy and an approach to the game than it is a set of plays or formations. Traditional offensive thinking argues that a team must establish their running game first, which will draw the defense in and open up vertical passing lanes downfield (passing lanes that run perpendicular to the line of scrimmage). Walsh's "West Coast Offense", on the contrary, stipulates that a defense must first be stretched with a short, horizontal passing attack that features sharp, precisely-run pass patterns by the receivers and quick, 3-step and 5-step drops by the quarterback. This stretching will then open up running lanes for the backs to exploit. In theory, this makes the offensive play calling unpredictable and keeps a defense's play "honest" because most down and distance situations can be attacked with the pass or run in Walsh's "West Coast Offense".

Beyond this basic principle of passing to set up the run, there are few rules that govern Walsh's "WCO". Originally the offense used two split backs, giving it an uneven alignment in which five players aligned to one side of the ball and four players aligned on the other side (with the quarterback and center directly behind the ball). Although Walsh-influenced "WCO" teams now commonly use formations with more or fewer than two backs, the offense's unevenness is still reflected in its pass protection philosophy and continues to distinguish it from single back passing offenses. Throughout the years, coaches have added to, adjusted, modified, simplified, and enhanced Bill Walsh's original adaptation of the Paul Brown offense. Formations and plays vary greatly, as does play calling.

A Walsh innovation in his "WCO" was scripting the first 15 offensive plays of the game. Scripting had several valuable assets. First, the offensive team knew that the first 15 plays would be run as scripted no matter what, allowing them to practice the plays to perfection, minimizing mistakes and penalties. Success of the offense could establish momentum and dictate the flow of the game. Scripting added an element of surprise, since a defense who had a 3rd and long could be caught off guard by a scripted play that had no relationship to the current situation. It also gave the coaching staff an opportunity to run test plays against the defense to gauge their reactions in game situations. Later in the game, an observed tendency in a certain situation by the opposing defense could be exploited.

Another key part of the Walsh "WCO" was "pass first, run later." It was Walsh's intention to gain an early lead by passing the ball, then run the ball on a tired defense late in the game, wearing them down further and running down the clock. The San Francisco 49ers under Walsh often executed this very effectively.

The original West Coast Offense of Sid Gillman uses some of the same principles (pass to establish the run, quarterback throws to timed spots), but offensive formations are generally less complicated with more wideouts and motion. The timed spots are often farther downfield than in the Walsh-style offense, and the system requires a greater reliance on traditional pocket passing.


Nice article Dooms. You beat me to it.

;)
 

BigWillie

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Doomsday101;1132655 said:
1st off that is not the true WCO and Bill Walsh has said no one really runs the pure version of the WCO there are many variation but having said that Dallas still does not run the WCO we run some routs that are used in the WCO but then so does everyone

Huh?

By what you are saying, the only 'true' WCO is the one implemented by Walsh. In every offense, the original will be broken down and used in different variations by the next person.

You can go down the line of the WCO coaching tree, which really started with Paul Brown and Sid Gillman. Don Coryell and Bill Walsh (Walsh worked under Brown, Coyell under Gillman) moved on to San Diego and San Francisco respectively, taking their offense and used the same guidelines of their offense, but tweaked versions to suit what they wanted. You can go down the line of WCO coaches like Holmgren, Shanahan, Green, Hackett, etc., who served under Walsh, but none of whom used the exact offense he installed. You can do that as well for their disciples. However, they use the same premise when designing their style of the WCO, but not the same as the person they learned under.

The same can be said for any style of offense, the originator of any offense will lay the groundwork, but it will be tweaked by everyone to fit what they want to do.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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ringmaster;1132737 said:
Good point because we ran a version of the Don Coryell offense in the 90s, under Norv Turner, and Ernie Zampese disciples of that offense and won three SBs using it but the offense we run today kinda mimics the Don Coryell offense.

Good call.

I do not agree with this at all. I don't think our offense is anything near Coryells "Air Coryell" offense. Those guys threw the ball a lot and they threw it down field. Jefferson, Chandler, Jointer, Winslow and Fouts used a vertical game much more then we do and they didn't try to use much of a running game to balance there offense. Muncie was a very talented RB but they used him in the passing game much more then in the running game. I was not around to see Paul Brown's offense in person but I'd bet it resembled what we do much more then did Coryell's offense. A better example might be the old Bengals offense under Sam Wyche of the 80s.
 

Doomsday101

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BigWillie;1132805 said:
Huh?

By what you are saying, the only 'true' WCO is the one implemented by Walsh. In every offense, the original will be broken down and used in different variations by the next person.

You can go down the line of the WCO coaching tree, which really started with Paul Brown and Sid Gillman. Don Coryell and Bill Walsh (Walsh worked under Brown, Coyell under Gillman) moved on to San Diego and San Francisco respectively, taking their offense and used the same guidelines of their offense, but tweaked versions to suit what they wanted. You can go down the line of WCO coaches like Holmgren, Shanahan, Green, Hackett, etc., who served under Walsh, but none of whom used the exact offense he installed. You can do that as well for their disciples. However, they use the same premise when designing their style of the WCO, but not the same as the person they learned under.

The same can be said for any style of offense, the originator of any offense will lay the groundwork, but it will be tweaked by everyone to fit what they want to do.

I'll just say Dallas does not run WCO we do run some common plays that tend to be used by WCO teams but everyone does. Now if you want to call what Dallas is doing as a form of the WCO be my guest
 
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