Article: Jets' Miller shows little sense (4:20 am; night club)

[iceberg]

It is a fact that more crimes take place during the early mourning hours. Friday and Sat during those times even more arrest take place. You’re more likely to have intoxicated people leaving these places and creating trouble. Does that make you a bad person? No your there to do a job that does not change the facts

then find that fact and we'll go from there.

 

[onetrickpony]

No kidding. All a player has to do is behave himself and exercise good judgement when he goes out.

You can be safe at 4:20 am if you choose to act appropriately. Miller obviously chose not to.

I have a rather large friend (6'2", 260#) who once told me something that I have never forgotten. The later it gets in the evening, the more likely you are to run into a drunk in a bar (go figgur). Drunks tend to do stupid things (Dooh!), like pick out the largest guy in the room to start a fight to prove their manhood. Whenever he went to a bar, he always made it a point to leave by midnight.

If we extend his logic to NFL players, they are very likely to be the largest guy in the room. They are also likely to be big spenders which also grabs attention. That makes them the likely target of some drunk even if they have been a chior boy all night otherwise.

The aggresive disposition that helps guys excell on the footbal field also comes into play here. Not too many of these guys could ignore some punk making loud obnoxious comments in a public setting. Throw in the ability of alcohol to remove inhibitions of even the best intentioned person and you now have a no win situation for any NFL player.

4:20AM in a bar is not the place to be if you want to avoid trouble. And with the NFL looking to make examples of guys right now, these guys should be avoiding these situations like the plague.

 

[superpunk]

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ivc98.pdf

If you scroll down to page 9 of 12 - you can find the crime statistics by time of day, iceberg. 12-6 AM was one of the smaller categories. This is probably because there are less people out, but in any case, Doom's notion that

It is a fact that more crimes take place during the early mourning hours.

is wrong.

I didnt see anything for day of the week.

 

[iceberg]

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ivc98.pdf

If you scroll down to page 9 of 12 - you can find the crime statistics by time of day, iceberg. 12-6 AM was one of the smaller categories. This is probably because there are less people out, but in any case, Doom's notion that

It is a fact that more crimes take place during the early mourning hours.

is wrong.

I didnt see anything for day of the week.

thanks sp - yea there are less people out and yea, that would make it less number overall - then you argue % of who's where when and so forth... but the end result is it's not being out at 4am that gets you in trouble, it's what you do at 4am, or any other time, that can.

or what is being done around you.

i'm just tired of the notion that "only bad things happen" that late at night.

 

[Angus]

I have a rather large friend (6'2", 260#) who once told me something that I have never forgotten. The later it gets in the evening, the more likely you are to run into a drunk in a bar (go figgur). Drunks tend to do stupid things (Dooh!), like pick out the largest guy in the room to start a fight to prove their manhood. Whenever he went to a bar, he always made it a point to leave by midnight.

If we extend his logic to NFL players, they are very likely to be the largest guy in the room. They are also likely to be big spenders which also grabs attention. That makes them the likely target of some drunk even if they have been a chior boy all night otherwise.

The aggresive disposition that helps guys excell on the footbal field also comes into play here. Not too many of these guys could ignore some punk making loud obnoxious comments in a public setting. Throw in the ability of alcohol to remove inhibitions of even the best intentioned person and you now have a no win situation for any NFL player.

4:20AM in a bar is not the place to be if you want to avoid trouble. And with the NFL looking to make examples of guys right now, these guys should be avoiding these situations like the plague.

Good argument. But how many NFL knuckleheads will have to lose for how long their NFL licenses to play before the idea sinks in for all of them that they've got to give up some behavior they like to indulge in (in order to keep something they need and like even more -- their NFL affiliation)?

Will tough love work?

 

[iceberg]

I have a rather large friend (6'2", 260#) who once told me something that I have never forgotten. The later it gets in the evening, the more likely you are to run into a drunk in a bar (go figgur). Drunks tend to do stupid things (Dooh!), like pick out the largest guy in the room to start a fight to prove their manhood. Whenever he went to a bar, he always made it a point to leave by midnight.

If we extend his logic to NFL players, they are very likely to be the largest guy in the room. They are also likely to be big spenders which also grabs attention. That makes them the likely target of some drunk even if they have been a chior boy all night otherwise.

The aggresive disposition that helps guys excell on the footbal field also comes into play here. Not too many of these guys could ignore some punk making loud obnoxious comments in a public setting. Throw in the ability of alcohol to remove inhibitions of even the best intentioned person and you now have a no win situation for any NFL player.

4:20AM in a bar is not the place to be if you want to avoid trouble. And with the NFL looking to make examples of guys right now, these guys should be avoiding these situations like the plague.

totally agree. esp. since most bars close down at 2am. being there at 4:20 would be a different crime you'd be in trouble for.

and at my size - i'm often one of the bigger dudes in the bar and NO ONE has picked a fight with me in a long long long long time. although some girl did sneak up behind me at 2am when i was tabbing out of curtain club the other night and gave me a spanking then demanded i returned the favor.

the horror...

 

[AbeBeta]

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ivc98.pdf

If you scroll down to page 9 of 12 - you can find the crime statistics by time of day, iceberg. 12-6 AM was one of the smaller categories. This is probably because there are less people out, but in any case, Doom's notion that

It is a fact that more crimes take place during the early mourning hours.

is wrong.

I didnt see anything for day of the week.

I'm a bit familiar with analysis of crime statistics -- there is usually some adjustment made to that type of data based on opportunity, both to commit crimes and to get caught.

 

[iceberg]

I'm a bit familiar with analysis of crime statistics -- there is usually some adjustment made to that type of data based on opportunity, both to commit crimes and to get caught.

that's the downside - this "adjusting for opportunity" - who's opportunity?

it either happens or it doesn't. from what i read from many people, the "opportunity" is more or less a lock during the "wee" hours of the night. so if the opportunity were greater wouldn't the numbers back that up?

statistics can be very tricky and are often misused according to "need" from those collecting it. but sure - i'd love to see more stats on it.

 

[baj1dallas]

420 baby.

I live in a serious 420 town -- April 20th is a holiday here.

It's a holiday everywhere.

 

[baj1dallas]

yeah it's funny, of course bad things can happen at any time and at any where. However, if you're at home at 4:20 am sleeping or reading a book, instead of out at a nightclub, how likely are you to get arrested? It's silly to think that the risk of getting into some kind of bad incident doesn't increase the later you're out.

I'm not condeming anybody for how they life their lives, or for what they choose to do in their spare time. There is just one easy solution for it though, if you don't want to get into trouble don't put yourself in a position where it's more likely to happen. If you don't want to get a girl pregnant don't have sex. Things like that should be common sense but sadly they are not to some people.

So I agree completely with you.

you're not going to meet any women sleeping or reading a book at 4AM either.

 

[DallasInDC]

For an NFL player, 4am and clubs is a bad combination. Especially now since it is putting your career at risk. However, speaking for myself (in my younger single days), I would have to disagree that nothing good ever happens at 4am. I have had many good experiences leaving the club at that time of morning. That's usually when your opportunities at their highest level.

 

[AbeBeta]

that's the downside - this "adjusting for opportunity" - who's opportunity?

it either happens or it doesn't. from what i read from many people, the "opportunity" is more or less a lock during the "wee" hours of the night. so if the opportunity were greater wouldn't the numbers back that up?

statistics can be very tricky and are often misused according to "need" from those collecting it. but sure - i'd love to see more stats on it.

The opportunity would likely reflect an estimate of how many people are awake at that time, precipitating circumstances, potential witnesses, etc. Where real opportunity comes -- both for commiting a crime and for being witnessed committing that crime is anywhere that people congregate. Late at night people tend to be drunk or high and have impaired judgement, you get a bunch of those folks together and you are far more likely to see a problem than in other places. Of course there are far fewer places that people congregate late at night.

But let's keep in mind where you are hanging out -- music venues, right? That's a bit of a different scene. The focus there is more a) on the music and b) talking with your friends. That's far less a formula for criminal activity. Unless you count drug sales and use. Then the numbers likely kick up.

Also, as you note, people don't screw with you. You are a crime deterrent. So again, you are driving crime stats down.

Statistics are not "tricky" per se -- they are potentially objective values that folks need to apply critical thinking skills to evaluate. So you are right -- every adjustment needs to be questioned.

 

[iceberg]

yeah it's funny, of course bad things can happen at any time and at any where. However, if you're at home at 4:20 am sleeping or reading a book, instead of out at a nightclub, how likely are you to get arrested? It's silly to think that the risk of getting into some kind of bad incident doesn't increase the later you're out.

I'm not condeming anybody for how they life their lives, or for what they choose to do in their spare time. There is just one easy solution for it though, if you don't want to get into trouble don't put yourself in a position where it's more likely to happen. If you don't want to get a girl pregnant don't have sex. Things like that should be common sense but sadly they are not to some people.

So I agree completely with you.

so now find me 1 person who said there wasn't a higher risk in this scenario? to date i've not said it. i've not read anyone say it - but here you are acting like someone did.

all I AM saying is that it's not a lock that "only bad things happen at 4:20am" - that's a load of crap.

 

[iceberg]

For an NFL player, 4am and clubs is a bad combination. Especially now since it is putting your career at risk. However, speaking for myself (in my younger single days), I would have to disagree that nothing good ever happens at 4am. I have had many good experiences leaving the club at that time of morning. That's usually when your opportunities at their highest level.

you see i can even agree with this, though most of it is out of perception. the sheer number of people saying 'it's a fact!' when it's not is just way up there. so they perceive it to be that way.

if i'm making millions a year playing a game i'd expect to live a little more careful and unfortunately perception would have something to do with it.

as for leaving the club - agreed! i get a lot of people talking to me, spanking me at the bar, bartenders giving me a kiss cause i emceed the previous band and they didn't know i did that (FEMALE bartenders, that is - see firewater)

i don't deny the overall environment can and will be more volitale, i just think the "nothing good can happen" is overstated crap that too many people buy into.

 

[adamknite]

so now find me 1 person who said there wasn't a higher risk in this scenario? to date i've not said it. i've not read anyone say it - but here you are acting like someone did.

all I AM saying is that it's not a lock that "only bad things happen at 4:20am" - that's a load of crap.

I never said anybody did. I was responding to what Doomsday said not anything you said.

I have said the same thing yet continue to get the response by some that that is not a factor. Go to any police intake and you will find that more arrest and incident take place during the early morning hours than any other time of day.

yeah it's funny, of course bad things can happen at any time and at any where. However, if you're at home at 4:20 am sleeping or reading a book, instead of out at a nightclub, how likely are you to get arrested? It's silly to think that the risk of getting into some kind of bad incident doesn't increase the later you're out.

I'm not condeming anybody for how they life their lives, or for what they choose to do in their spare time. There is just one easy solution for it though, if you don't want to get into trouble don't put yourself in a position where it's more likely to happen. If you don't want to get a girl pregnant don't have sex. Things like that should be common sense but sadly they are not to some people.

So I agree completely with you.

See that was what my sentence was refering to. So how about you quit jumping down my throat over it. Espcially since I was talking to somebody else, who mentioned people consider it to be a non factor.

Edit: Sorry if you thought that was refering to anything that you said, but I assure you it wasn't.

 

[iceberg]

The opportunity would likely reflect an estimate of how many people are awake at that time, precipitating circumstances, potential witnesses, etc. Where real opportunity comes -- both for commiting a crime and for being witnessed committing that crime is anywhere that people congregate. Late at night people tend to be drunk or high and have impaired judgement, you get a bunch of those folks together and you are far more likely to see a problem than in other places. Of course there are far fewer places that people congregate late at night.

But let's keep in mind where you are hanging out -- music venues, right? That's a bit of a different scene. The focus there is more a) on the music and b) talking with your friends. That's far less a formula for criminal activity. Unless you count drug sales and use. Then the numbers likely kick up.

Also, as you note, people don't screw with you. You are a crime deterrent. So again, you are driving crime stats down.

Statistics are not "tricky" per se -- they are potentially objective values that folks need to apply critical thinking skills to evaluate. So you are right -- every adjustment needs to be questioned.

i could even agree with all this cause it's talking factual but not extreme.

then again i came out of a theater once at 10pm and someone was shot and killed in the parking lot. normal "drunks" are just getting started then.

deep ellum *does* have a history of violence but much of it is racial. there was a time coming out of there we walked past a predominately black section of the street and my friend heard someone say "ya'll be some brave white boys". would they say that at 2pm? no, not likely cause they're home sleeping now. so yes, it can and does happen.

so does other violent crime 24x7.
so does terrorism, 24x7.

don't think i've ever been called a crime deterant before. : )

good points i don't disagree with a lot of.

 

[AbeBeta]

deep ellum *does* have a history of violence but much of it is racial. there was a time coming out of there we walked past a predominately black section of the street and my friend heard someone say "ya'll be some brave white boys". would they say that at 2pm? no, not likely cause they're home sleeping now. so yes, it can and does happen.

An interesting phenomenon happens when folks go to clubs in what they see as bad areas - as folks come to the club they get very aware that they aren't in the safest place -- this leads to stronger affiliations with other folks who came to the club (that's some pretty basic application of various social psychological theories) -- you start to see yourself as more like those people who you are there with -- that lead to a more positive experience and will generally reduce the amount of conflict and increase the amount of, umm, hooking up.

 

[Angus]

you're not going to meet any women sleeping or reading a book at 4AM either.

But you can meet them in church the next morning and, depending on what you have in mind, are much less likely to get you in trouble than the ones you meet at 4:00 am at a club.

 

[trickblue]

Anyone else find it ironic that this occurred at 4:20?

I wonder if "4:20" was a factor...

 

[iceberg]

Anyone else find it ironic that this occurred at 4:20?

I wonder if "4:20" was a factor...

heh, some do by their comments. i'm trying to ignore it and go by overall statements than the ironic ones.

besides, if everyone were on weed, there's not likely to be anyone fighting, just sitting around doing the beavis laugh and eating things that they'd normally may not want to eat.

if people think you go out and get stoned to cause problems i can only assume they've never done it or had much experience around someone on it.