Atlanta Braves thread!!!

[Muhast]

You didn't answer the question..

Im just saying.. imagine how many runs he could drive in if he hit well with RISP, or didn't strike out 150 times a year, and made more contact. He's clearly a good player, im not debating that fact.

You could say this about tons of players.

Adam Dunn for instance.

If he didn't strike out as much as he did he could potentially hit around 50-60 hrs a year.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

You could say this about tons of players.

Adam Dunn for instance.

If he didn't strike out as much as he did he could potentially hit around 50-60 hrs a year.

..and that's why tons of players, including Adam Dunn, arn't All Stars. Thank you for proving my point.

Uggla is good, but he's not great. If you're expecting an all star, you're going to be disappointed, imo. That's all i was saying.

 

[DIAF]

How many people who hit .250 to .260 make the all star team?

When they hit 30 homers and drive in 100, AND play second base? One of the more offensively-challenged positions on the diamond? Seriously?

Hell, Dan Uggla himself has made the All-Star team twice.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

When they hit 30 homers and drive in 100, AND play second base? One of the more offensively-challenged positions on the diamond? Seriously?

Hell, Dan Uggla himself has made the All-Star team twice.

And the first year he made it he hit around .285, and the second year, he had a great first half.

There's alot of players who have probably made the all star team once or twice, that you still wouldn't call "all star players".

A career .250 hitter certainly doesn't deserve that title. Uggla is Adam Dunn from the right side. Power guy, but strikes out too often and doesn't make good contact most of the time.

 

[DIAF]

And the first year he made it he hit around .285, and the second year, he had a great first half.

There's alot of players who have probably made the all star team once or twice, that you still wouldn't call "all star players".

A career .250 hitter certainly doesn't deserve that title. Uggla is Adam Dunn from the right side. Power guy, but strikes out too often and doesn't make good contact most of the time.

Oh man, I love baseball arguments!

If that career .250 hitter also averages 30 homers and 100 rbi for his career though (and makes mutliple all-star teams) i'd say he was an All-Star. ESPECIALLY if he plays 2nd base. I mean come on, Luis Castillo is a 3-time All-Star at 2nd base! You wanna tell me Uggla isn't??

Just off the top of my head, here's some guys that had middling batting averages (hit in the .250s/.260s) for their careers and were considered all-star/all-pros in their day.

Matt Williams (5x All Star)
Daryl Strawberry (8x All Star)
Cecil Fielder (3x All Star)
Joe Carter (5x All Star)
Gary Carter (11x All Star)
Mike Schmidt (12x All Star)
Dale Murphy (7x All Star)

All those guys were all-stars, no matter what the definition. Just like Uggla. Is he an all-time great? No, at least he doesn't appear to be on that track. He was a late bloomer and is already north of 30 years old. But 30 homers and 100 RBI out of a middle infielder? That's all-star material!

 

[Muhast]

And the first year he made it he hit around .285, and the second year, he had a great first half.

There's alot of players who have probably made the all star team once or twice, that you still wouldn't call "all star players".

A career .250 hitter certainly doesn't deserve that title. Uggla is Adam Dunn from the right side. Power guy, but strikes out too often and doesn't make good contact most of the time.

He actually bats .262 for his career. (12 points is a big difference)

He has had 2 years where he batted in the 280's out of 5. One of those was last year where he hit .287.

Would you like to see him strike out less? Yes. But getting that type of production (30+ hrs a year and 90+ rbis) out of a 2nd basemen is unreal.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

He actually bats .262 for his career. (12 points is a big difference)

He has had 2 years where he batted in the 280's out of 5. One of those was last year where he hit .287.

Would you like to see him strike out less? Yes. But getting that type of production (30+ hrs a year and 90+ rbis) out of a 2nd basemen is unreal.

Yawn.. look, i get it, 30 hr's/90 rbi's.. sheesh.


The point is, he's Adam Dunn from the right side, power but not a really good hitter. I understand average isn't everything, but with his poor average, high number of strikeouts, and fluctuating ability with RISP each year.. he's not a guy i would look to to turn my team around, or to give me that extra boost from a winning team to an instant contender.

 

[Muhast]

Yawn.. look, i get it, 30 hr's/90 rbi's.. sheesh.


The point is, he's Adam Dunn from the right side, power but not a really good hitter. I understand average isn't everything, but with his poor average, high number of strikeouts, and fluctuating ability with RISP each year.. he's not a guy i would look to to turn my team around, or to give me that extra boost from a winning team to an instant contender.

We had zero power last year, we needed a big bat and he fits the bill.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

We had zero power last year, we needed a big bat and he fits the bill.

Fair enough.. there's nothing wrong with that. He's an above average RH power bat, i agree.

 

[DIAF]

Yawn.. look, i get it, 30 hr's/90 rbi's.. sheesh.


The point is, he's Adam Dunn from the right side, power but not a really good hitter. I understand average isn't everything, but with his poor average, high number of strikeouts, and fluctuating ability with RISP each year.. he's not a guy i would look to to turn my team around, or to give me that extra boost from a winning team to an instant contender.

If he really WAS Adam Dunn from the right side, he'd be one of the best offensive 2nd basemen in the HISTORY of the game. Adam Dunn is an absolute offensive beast, even with the low average and high Ks.

I like how you go from dismissing stats to then quoting stats as to why Uggla isn't a good hitter! Also, lets not forget the position he plays.

This is the MLB League-average 2nd baseman in 2010 -
12 home runs, 57 RBIs, 72 runs scored, 10 stolen bases and a .276 batting average (from ESPN)

This is Dan Uggla, career 162-game averages.
32 home runs, 96 RBIs, 103 runs scored, 4 stolen bases, .262 batting average.

That my friends, is an all star.

He's also not that bad with RISP. Over the past 3 years (that's as far back as ESPN's stat splits will let you go), he's hit .260 with RISP and .269 with runners on. In other words, right at his career average.

I love stats!

 

[RoyTheHammer]

If he really WAS Adam Dunn from the right side, he'd be one of the best offensive 2nd basemen in the HISTORY of the game. Adam Dunn is an absolute offensive beast, even with the low average and high Ks.

I like how you go from dismissing stats to then quoting stats as to why Uggla isn't a good hitter! Also, lets not forget the position he plays.

This is the MLB League-average 2nd baseman in 2010 -
12 home runs, 57 RBIs, 72 runs scored, 10 stolen bases and a .276 batting average (from ESPN)

This is Dan Uggla, career 162-game averages.
32 home runs, 96 RBIs, 103 runs scored, 4 stolen bases, .262 batting average.

That my friends, is an all star.

He's also not that bad with RISP. Over the past 3 years (that's as far back as ESPN's stat splits will let you go), he's hit .260 with RISP and .269 with runners on. In other words, right at his career average.

I love stats!

I've been quoting stats since my first post about this.. don't know what you're talking about. I haven't dismissed any stats as not being valuable information.

RISP:

2011: .000
2010: .273
2009: .225
2008: .290
2007: .199
2006: .267

Career: .247

That's what i meant by fluctuating. Seems every other year he's horrible with RISP. So this year isn't looking good for Braves fans. Maybe he can buck the trend.

 

[Patton]

First series win since opening week. Being stretch coming up on the west coast. They need to somehow play .500 ball out there.

I really hate to see Peter Moylan go to the DL. He's going to miss the entire road trip. They brought up Jairo Ascencio to take his spot, but what I suspect this will mean is George Sherrill and Scott Linebrink will have to take on higher leverage situations. Gotta hope for the best, but that's not good news. As expected Sherrill looks great against the lefties, but I don't have any confidence in Fredi deploying him correctly. We shall see how this turns out.

 

[DIAF]

after today's game, I don't think Freddi knows how to do anything correctly. Gonzalez bunting to get the runner to second for Johnny Minor League CF and BROOKS CONRAD? what?

 

[Temo]

So the braves are starting to turn it around, finally.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

How's the All Star Uggla doing?

 

[Patton]

Give him time. His BABIP is .176 right now. He normally BABIPs in the .270s to .330. He's going to have have a ridiculous stretch where balls start dropping for him anytime now. Over a baseball season these things normalize. His power is almost normal, but he's having bad luck. I would suspect May is the month where the turnaround happens. April is historically Uggla's worst month and May his best.

 

[tko112204]

Dan Uggla is a 15 WAR player since 2006. I'm pretty sure he'll be fine.

A .176 BABIP is unsustainable, and there's no reason to think a guy that has hit 30+ home runs for 4 straight years is going to stop hitting for power.

And yeah, being compared to Adam Dunn as an offensive player is a pretty high compliment. Even if Uggla doesn't approach Dunn's OBP.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Dan Uggla is a 15 WAR player since 2006. I'm pretty sure he'll be fine.

A .176 BABIP is unsustainable, and there's no reason to think a guy that has hit 30+ home runs for 4 straight years is going to stop hitting for power.

And yeah, being compared to Adam Dunn as an offensive player is a pretty high compliment. Even if Uggla doesn't approach Dunn's OBP.

So he is averaging around 3 WAR a season.. you consider that good? Seems very average to me.

Also, Adam Dunn has had a 10 year career and made the All Star team one time. He's not a great player. Its a fair comparison between he and Uggla though.

 

[DIAF]

So he is averaging around 3 WAR a season.. you consider that good? Seems very average to me.

Also, Adam Dunn has had a 10 year career and made the All Star team one time. He's not a great player. Its a fair comparison between he and Uggla though.

Adam Dunn's stats would beg to differ. Voters and writers are all so hung up on sexy stats and all his career he's played crowded positions (OF and 1B). The great Mark Texiera has only ever made the all-star team twice because of similar reasons, and most would consider him a great player. Also, Adam Dunn plays terrible defense. So there's that as well. But that Adam Dunn hasn't made more all-star teams is absolutely criminal. Averaging nearly 100 runs/40 homers/100 rbi a year, while maintaining an OBP of .380 and slugging .518. Yowzas!

 

[tko112204]

So he is averaging around 3 WAR a season.. you consider that good? Seems very average to me.

Also, Adam Dunn has had a 10 year career and made the All Star team one time. He's not a great player. Its a fair comparison between he and Uggla though.

So 4 WAR is average and All-Star Games matter? Ok.

I think we're done here.