Babe Laufenberg: Genius List of 5 Things to Fix Cowboys.

[theebs]

If it is a dig route, he screwed it up, but he's not going parallel at all. Looks more like a flag route to me, where he breaks at 45 degree angle and looks back at the QB. If it's a flag route, he did exactly what he was supposed to do and Tony threw a wild ball into triple coverage.

I pretty sure that is a simple dig route with him having to make his break and go full speed to the sideline. Not turning and jogging and stopping.

Go watch some of the old games, Terry Glenn was a master at running that play. Same speed into his cut, out of his cut and on the sideline.

I would go and cut some glenn stuff running that same route, but I dont have the patience to find all of glenns catches and then sort through them!!!

 

[theogt]

I pretty sure that is a simple dig route with him having to make his break and go full speed to the sideline. Not turning and jogging and stopping.

Go watch some of the old games, Terry Glenn was a master at running that play. Same speed into his cut, out of his cut and on the sideline.

I would go and cut some glenn stuff running that same route, but I dont have the patience to find all of glenns catches and then sort through them!!!

There's one thing I'm pretty certain of on that play -- Terrell Owens wasn't intending to run a dig route. If that's what was called, he ran the wrong route entirely. That would be a valid criticism if true, but it's not the criticism that Laufenberg is making. Owens begins the route on the 30, runs 10-12 yards and then runs at a 45 degree angle. That's a flag route. In fact, Crayton is underneath him running a shorter out route to the sideline. It wouldn't make any sense to have two routes going into the same area on top of each other.

 

[theebs]

There's one thing I'm pretty certain of on that play -- Terrell Owens wasn't intending to run a dig route. If that's what was called, he ran the wrong route entirely. That would be a valid criticism if true, but it's not the criticism that Laufenberg is making. Owens begins the route on the 30, runs 10-12 yards and then runs at a 45 degree angle. That's a flag route. In fact, Crayton is underneath him running a shorter out route to the sideline. It wouldn't make any sense to have two routes going into the same area on top of each other.

that makes sense. But If it is a corner route that is even more on him, that was a horrendous corner route, and if he then adjusted the route on his own and romo was reacting to that and then throwing the ball based on the new route, why did he stop?

I took it as a deeper dig route, but with crayton running one underneath it would make sense that he is running the corner route, and then he adjusted it for some reason. IF that is a corner route, why was it so rounded out?

I dont get how it would be romos fault if owens changes the route and then stops? If it is an adjustment, then it is something both owens and romo saw and romo threw the ball to the spot where he should have gone, yet again...he stopped. FOr no reason.

I just find it odd, polamalu saw it the whole way and beat owens to the spot. It doenst look like polamalu jumped a corner route though, if it was a corner it would have been deeper and polamalu would have been toast.

I am sorry I can not put that on romo. Either way owens rounded out a corner route causing romo to adjust and he stopped, or owens stopped on a dig route. EIther way romo threw the ball out for owens to make a play and he stopped.

 

[randy932]

Anything that didn't have fixing the O-line as a top priority isn't worth the time. It was the single worst performing unit on the team.

You musta not watched the STs.

 

[theogt]

that makes sense. But If it is a corner route that is even more on him, that was a horrendous corner route, and if he then adjusted the route on his own and romo was reacting to that and then throwing the ball based on the new route, why did he stop?

I took it as a deeper dig route, but with crayton running one underneath it would make sense that he is running the corner route, and then he adjusted it for some reason. IF that is a corner route, why was it so rounded out?

I dont get how it would be romos fault if owens changes the route and then stops? If it is an adjustment, then it is something both owens and romo saw and romo threw the ball to the spot where he should have gone, yet again...he stopped. FOr no reason.

I just find it odd, polamalu saw it the whole way and beat owens to the spot. It doenst look like polamalu jumped a corner route though, if it was a corner it would have been deeper and polamalu would have been toast.

I am sorry I can not put that on romo. Either way owens rounded out a corner route causing romo to adjust and he stopped, or owens stopped on a dig route. EIther way romo threw the ball out for owens to make a play and he stopped.

I don't know if he really rounded it any more than you can round a corner route. It's a 45 degree angle, so it's not exactly a cut like a 90 degre angle. That ball was thrown so far to the left that he couldn't possibly have reached it. Maybe Tony thought it was a dig route. I dunno, it's impossible to tell without knowing what was called. I just know it had nothing to do with him not finishing his route, like Babe suggested. Watch the play again and imagine if TO was a corner and the DB was a receiver. Could any corner have possibly made up that kind of ground in time to break up the pass? I doubt it.

Either he and Crayton both ran the wrong route, or Tony threw a wild one. He was throwing quite a few of them at the time, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

You musta not watched the STs.

It's a close one, but you may be right. I think the line had a bigger impact, though, so I give them the edge.

 

[theebs]

I don't know if he really rounded it any more than you can round a corner route. It's a 45 degree angle, so it's not exactly a cut like a 90 degre angle. That ball was thrown so far to the left that he couldn't possibly have reached it. Maybe Tony thought it was a dig route. I dunno, it's impossible to tell without knowing what was called. I just know it had nothing to do with him not finishing his route, like Babe suggested. Watch the play again and imagine if TO was a corner and the DB was a receiver. Could any corner have possibly made up that kind of ground in time to break up the pass? I doubt it.

Either he and Crayton both ran the wrong route, or Tony threw a wild one. He was throwing quite a few of them at the time, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

It's a close one, but you may be right. I think the line had a bigger impact, though, so I give them the edge.

Good points, but I still dont understand why he would stop? It makes no sense to me whatsoever. I would hang my bet on owens not knowing where he was supposed to be and then romo compensating for that by guessing where he was going to be and throwing it when he started to break, which I still contest that if he doesnt stop he is right there for the ball. Owens is jogging then stopping. No matter what route you are running, jogging and stopping are not a part of it.

I will have to look and see if I can see that formation again and where the ball went. If you just watch polamalu, it indicates that he saw that same play on film and knew exactly where to be, so the whole thing is odd, because if that is a corner route it is way over polamalus head.

very confusing. but you are dead right, without knowing the play call, much like all of the defensive situations we have all debated here years it is pretty tough to make heads or tails.

 

[Clove]

The sorriest QB in history knows how to get us to the SB. Awesome!

 

[theebs]

EDIT: I just want to add that I went back and watched the play from the game not just the shot from laufenbergs show. It must be a corner route, because romo pump fakes staring at owens the whole time and then throwing it to him anyway. Owens must have broke it off, it makes no sense that romo would not have thrown the corner route with Troy p basically going to that spot. He threw the ball to the adjustment that owens made and owens just stopped and let polamalu have it. And I believe without question had owens run hard the whole time he at least knocks the ball away. He just gave up, must be because he broke off his route and thought romo wouldnt throw it at him anymore. To me, its romo giving owens a chance like he is always crying about.



[youtube]ZKYtTZ2w_VI[/youtube]





then a quick search I found the exact same play agains the niners two weeks earlier. Owens runs that same play to the sideline and then cuts up and romo throws it deep. So to me that tells me he expected owens on the sideline.



[youtube]OPuqFCbHHAE[/youtube]



and here the td against sf was the same again, this time it looks like owens sees no safety deep and goes up the field, luckily romo moved in the pocket and got him the ball.



[youtube]nNKqp5-8Kb4[/youtube]

Also I have found the same formation a million times, including against the skins the first time, every time crayton runs the dig and owens the corner...

I will put them up in a minute. All this makes me believe romo was ready to throw the corner, saw owens break it off as he had in the past, like the sf game and then owens stopped.

 

[theogt]

If you watch the Steelers play, Owens makes the slightest move upwards. It's almost as if wanted to run the exact same route as the 3rd video, but Romo throws it at the sidelines, so I think once he sees that he stops and drifts in that direction. It would make sense that TO wanted to go up instead of out, since TP was biting so hard -- there was no one over the top. If Romo connects that it's an easy TD.

The second video isn't working for me, theebs.

 

[theebs]

If you watch the Steelers play, Owens makes the slightest move upwards. It's almost as if he's running the exact same route as the 3rd video, but Romo expects him at the sidelines. Or just makes a terrible throw.

The second video isn't working for me, theebs.

yea it is in processing, you will see its the identical play, even the sf defense plays it the same way.

Owens breaks off the corner, runs to the sideline and then up the sideline. That is enough evidence for me to believe that romo thought he would run to the sideline and that is why he threw it. Especially since it was just two weeks before and the defense was the same.

Not sure why youtube is taking so long to process that one! figures.

 

[Idgit]

If you watch the Steelers play, Owens makes the slightest move upwards. It's almost as if wanted to run the exact same route as the 3rd video, but Romo throws it at the sidelines, so I think once he sees that he stops and drifts in that direction. It would make sense that TO wanted to go up instead of out, since TP was biting so hard -- there was no one over the top. If Romo connects that it's an easy TD.

The second video isn't working for me, theebs.

I see the same thing, theogt. Owens did have a big play available if Tony could have read his mind and corrected in time.

This is a great thread, btw, guys.

 

[theogt]

I see the same thing, theogt. Owens did have a big play available if Tony could have read his mind and corrected in time.

This is a great thread, btw, guys.

theebs is awesome with the vids.

 

[theebs]

Here is that second play. Hopefully this works.

http://www.4shared.com/file/82613694/3e2eee48/owens_play_2.html?dirPwdVerified=a4754a2

it should play in the window, you can see owens break that off with the same defensive look. Which makes me believe romo thoguht he would run it to the sideline again, like he had two games prior.

here is the same offensive formation and crayton running the dig to the sideline and owens running the post corner.

its tough to tell with this one because the skins are in some sort of prevent or cover 4 and just dropping everyone. It does indicate that we seem to run that post corner in that formation every time. And again to me the steelers saw that play against the 49ers on film and polamalu knew he would throw it to the sideline with owens.

[youtube]iG2IE_OWWr4[/youtube]

 

[theogt]

Yup, just an option route and they both went opposite ways. Hard to say who's to blame, but I do think that with TP biting so hard on that pump, Tony should have put it over him.

 

[DallasEast]

I can't say that he was running the same route in the first and third videos, but it does look like he hesitated and cut off his route in the first video. Why route a 20-yard curl or dig that deep trying to find the sweet spot in the zone? In that situation, the safer pass should've been thrown towards the sidelines, which is where the ball was delivered. A corner or a deep out-and-up route makes more sense. Then again, he ran 12-15 yards before he broke towards the sideline. That's an awful out-and-up route. My guess is that it was a corner route only.

 

[theebs]

Yup, just an option route and they both went opposite ways. Hard to say who's to blame, but I do think that with TP biting so hard on that pump, Tony should have put it over him.

I would imagine he wanted to, especially seeing that they have done that a number of times before, and each time owens goes sideline then up the field. When owens kept going towards the sideline romo must have assumed he would keep running.


So I would imagine owens has three options on the play. Run the post corner, break it off to the sideline or if the safety moves or is not there run the post like the sf game.

http://i8.***BLOCKED***/albums/a46/Theebs/owens-option.jpg

 

[khiladi]

Terrell Owens did break the route off, but he broke it off for good reason.

If you pay attention to the play before the ball was snapped, Terrell Owens is clearly pointing out that TP at 4 seconds in, showing safety help over the top as well as the deep route being taken. His hands are pointing directly at him for at a few seconds prior to the snap. He saw movement by TP that clearly indicated he knew what was coming. Terrell Owens broke to the sideline because of that, but he most probably didn't think Romo was going to throw it after pointing it out.

Tony Romo should have read the coverage and the movement and not thrown it either way to TO. After watching TO pointing to TP for that amount of time, it is obvious that the defenders knew that TO was a primary target.

In the third video with the 49ers, TO had single coverage on that play. There was no safety help over the middle on his side until it was way too late.

I would imagine he wanted to, especially seeing that they have done that a number of times before, and each time owens goes sideline then up the field. When owens kept going towards the sideline romo must have assumed he would keep running.

Which is Romo's fault, because he should have clearly seen what TO pointed out.

 

[theebs]

Terrell Owens did break the route off, but he broke it off for good reason.

If you pay attention to the play before the ball was snapped, Terrell Owens is clearly pointing out that TP had safety help over the top and the deep route was taken. He saw movement by TP that clearly indicated he knew what was coming. Terrell Owens broke to the sideline because of that, but he most probably didn't think Romo was going to throw it after pointing it out.

Tony Romo should have read the coverage and the movement and not thrown it either way to TO.

In the third video with the 49ers, TO had single coverage on that play. There was no safety help over the middle on his side until it was way too late.

yes exactly. And his reason for stopping the route was what? and even deeper than that, he has position on the slot corner, and if he is running the post corner you would think he would be fine if TP is playing deep like he was, owens if he is running hard should still have inside position on TP.

and romo giving him a chance to make the play is bad how?

and isnt he always whining about getting the ball? And if so isnt this perfect proof of what happens when you give him opportunities?

and you dont know what owens was pointing at. He might have been pointing out how they were giving him a free release. And if he saw the safety deep, he should have been expecting the ball on the sideline, right? Why wouldnt he expect the ball if the safety is deep?

There is no excuse for stopping that route. Especially after I went and found a number of examples where he runs that to the sideline and up. He just quit.

I would imagine he wanted to, especially seeing that they have done that a number of times before, and each time owens goes sideline then up the field. When owens kept going towards the sideline romo must have assumed he would keep running.

Which is Romo's fault, because he should have clearly seen what TO pointed out.

Your going to have to explain that to me, better than its romos fault. If he pointed out TP was deep, why would he not expect the ball on the sideline again? And why shouldnt romo have thrown it, if he sees owens get a clean break and have the inside isnt this what owens wants? Opportunities? There is no excuse for him stopping.

 

[khiladi]

and you dont know what owens was pointing at. He might have been pointing out how they were giving him a free release. And if he saw the safety deep, he should have been expecting the ball on the sideline, right? Why wouldnt he expect the ball if the safety is deep?

And how does that absolve Tony Romo?

Your saying the fact that TO didn't point out the coverage to Romo is not relevant? There is what is called progressions by QBs as well. Being the first target in a read doesn't mean your the only target, especially when you get a particular formation.

You provided other clips, with different defensive formations.

Did TO point out TP or not?

Considering that you yourself admitted that this was a formation used many times by the Cowboys, and TO himself pointed out TP knew it was coming, how does that absolve TR from the blame?

The defense knew it was coming, which lends itself to predictability, meaning that it was an issue, ultimately of scheming.

If you pay attention, TP was even moving backwards when the play began, because he knew what he was seeing.

and isnt he always whining about getting the ball? And if so isnt this perfect proof of what happens when you give him opportunities?

Wow... SO TO clearly tells Romo, in the course of the game, not to throw it to him, and your saying this is proof of your point regarding TO telling the offense to force it to him? Ridiculous... It all makes sense why TO and TR blamed Garrett in the end...

Your whole argument is predicated on the assumption that if TO ran the right route, he would have easily scored. And that is unsubstantiated, especially considering the way TP played it and TO pointed it out, prior to the snap.

and you dont know what owens was pointing at. He might have been pointing out how they were giving him a free release. And if he saw the safety deep, he should have been expecting the ball on the sideline, right? Why wouldnt he expect the ball if the safety is deep?

I am quite sure I know what he was pointint at, especially after seeing the clear pre-snap formations. The only person in front of him is TP, who is like 30 yards off of him. Anybody who is anybody knows he is playing the deep ball.

 

[theebs]

And how does that absolve Tony Romo?

Your saying the fact that TO didn't point out the coverage to Romo is not relevant? There is what is called progressions by QBs as well, you know. Being the first target in a read doesn't mean your the only target, especially when you get a particular formation.

You provided other clips, with different defensive formations.

Did TO point out TP or not?

Considering that you yourself admitted that this was a formation used many times by the Cowboys, and TO himself pointed out TP knew it was coming, how does that absolve TR from the blame?

The defense knew it was coming, which lends itself to predictability, meaning that it was an issue, ultimately of scheming.

If you pay attention, TP was even moving backwards when the play began, because he knew what he was seeing.

Nice way to not answer the question.

And read the other posts, I have said romo after the pump fake probably should have thrown it somewhere else, but when owens makes the move to the sideline he has position and if he finishes the route he at least breaks it up.

and the sf defense in the second video is the same. Corner, slot corner safety over the top, he ran it to the sideline and up.

and in the washington video I posted, the defense was playing some sort of deep cover 4 or prevent look because of the time left in the half, but owens still ran the deep corner route.

I am just confused how romo is to blame when the wr broke it off to the sideline and the qb sees that and see's he has position and throws it, but the wr stops? I dont get it.

but I didnt expect you to say owens did anything wrong, you would never do that. Oh and there were 3 guys in routes, williams was at the top and choice snuck out when romo was about to get pressure right in his face. Williams was covered from the get go, crayton was short of the first down and choice was late and short. So when owens breaks it off I see no reason why romo wouldnt throw it, if owens doesnt stop its at least an incomplete pass.

and isnt he always whining about getting the ball? And if so isnt this perfect proof of what happens when you give him opportunities?

Wow... SO TO clearly tells Romo, in the course of the game, not to throw it to him, and your saying this is proof of your point regarding TO telling the offense to force it to him? Ridiculous... It all makes sense why TO and TR blamed Garrett in the end...

Your whole argument is predicated on the assumption that if TO ran the right route, he would have easily scored. And that is unsubstantiated, especially considering the way TP played it and TO pointed it out, prior to the snap.

__________________

lol can you read, seriously. I have never ever said anything about scoring. Where does that even come from?

And I clearly said owens always wants it thrown to him and romo gives him a chance and he stops? You have no idea what owens meant by pointing out where TP was, dont pretend you do to fit your argument. He could have just simply been pointing him out, or pointing out how he was getting a free release, or pointing out that he was going deep, only to adjust after the snap....You simply dont know.