Baldy's Breakdowns: More Praise for Parsons

[MarcusRock]

Gotta say, that looked like holding. I didn't see a 'rip' technique there, and he was certainly not 'away from the play'.

An excerpt from Rule 12: Article 3 that Marcus posted in a different thread -

(c) Uses his hands or arms to materially restrict or alter the defender’s path or angle of pursuit. It is a foul regardless of whether
the blocker’s hands are inside or outside the frame of the defender’s body. Material restrictions include but are not limited to:
(1) grabbing or tackling an opponent;
(2) hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or
(3) pulling him to the ground.
Penalty: For holding by the offense: Loss of 10 yards.

Blocking Notes:
(1) When a defensive player is held by an offensive player during the following situations, Offensive Holding will not be
called:
(a) if the runner is being tackled simultaneously by any defensive player;
(b) if the runner simultaneously goes out of bounds;
(c) if a Fair Catch is made simultaneously;
(d) if the action clearly occurs after a forward pass has been thrown to a receiver beyond the line of scrimmage;
(e) if the action occurs away from the point of attack and not within close-line play;
(f) if a free kick results in a touchback;
(g) if a scrimmage kick simultaneously becomes a touchback;
(h) if the action is part of a double-team block, unless the defender splits the double team, gets to the outside of either
blocker, or is taken to the ground; or
(i) if, during a defensive charge, a defensive player uses a “rip” technique that puts an offensive player in a position
that would normally be holding.
Exception: Holding will be called if the defender’s feet are taken away from him by the blocker’s action.

Notice the part I highlighted. That would seem to indicate that it's not, in fact, legal to grab the jersey or pads, even in the chest area, as many have stated it is.

At what point during that sequence are you seeing a hold? Certainly not in Micah's initial trip up field. That is all legal and Micah actually does attempt a rip but the OL beat him to the punch by locking up Parsons' outside shoulder (this is what happens when you start to favor a move like Parsons does with the rip). As Parsons tries to change direction is where you could call it a hold as @DanA pointed out a few posts up, however, in the holding rule you posted, look at exception (h). By the time Fields rolls out, the OT now gets help from the G, who really only lays a few tame pushes on Parsons but that there is now a double-team block which is when that restriction happens. The rules say that if "the action," i.e., hold, is "part of a double-team block ..." Offensive Holding will not be called. I would expect either the broadcast crew or Baldy to point out it was a missed hold like the broadcasters did for that egregious hold that wasn't called during the game that I agree was clearly a hold. This one can clearly be legalesed out of when you consider everything.

 

[Runwildboys]

At what point during that sequence are you seeing a hold? Certainly not in Micah's initial trip up field. That is all legal and Micah actually does attempt a rip but the OL beat him to the punch by locking up Parsons' outside shoulder (this is what happens when you start to favor a move like Parsons does with the rip). As Parsons tries to change direction is where you could call it a hold as @DanA pointed out a few posts up, however, in the holding rule you posted, look at exception (h). By the time Fields rolls out, the OT now gets help from the G, who really only lays a few tame pushes on Parsons but that there is now a double-team block which is when that restriction happens. The rules say that if "the action," i.e., hold, is "part of a double-team block ..." Offensive Holding will not be called. I would expect either the broadcast crew or Baldy to point out it was a missed hold like the broadcasters did for that egregious hold that wasn't called during the game that I agree was clearly a hold. This one can clearly be legalesed out of when you consider everything.

As for this play, attempting a rip move isn't making a rip move, so that part of the rule is irrelevant. The OL had a hold of the front of Micah's jersey, while standing to the side and causing him to twist. This was before the G arrived.
The G never actually engaged, so I don't think you can call that a double team block. (To be frank, I don't understand how adding another blocker makes it legal to hold someone when it otherwise wouldn't be. That seems counterintuitive.)

I also highlighted that part of the rule because I've seen several people it's okay for an O-lineman to grab on to the pads/jersey, as long as it's inside on the body. That rule would seem to dispute that claim, unless I'm misunderstanding it.

 

[DanA]

At what point during that sequence are you seeing a hold? Certainly not in Micah's initial trip up field. That is all legal and Micah actually does attempt a rip but the OL beat him to the punch by locking up Parsons' outside shoulder (this is what happens when you start to favor a move like Parsons does with the rip). As Parsons tries to change direction is where you could call it a hold as @DanA pointed out a few posts up, however, in the holding rule you posted, look at exception (h). By the time Fields rolls out, the OT now gets help from the G, who really only lays a few tame pushes on Parsons but that there is now a double-team block which is when that restriction happens. The rules say that if "the action," i.e., hold, is "part of a double-team block ..." Offensive Holding will not be called. I would expect either the broadcast crew or Baldy to point out it was a missed hold like the broadcasters did for that egregious hold that wasn't called during the game that I agree was clearly a hold. This one can clearly be legalesed out of when you consider everything.

I don’t think the double team rule applies here. You can’t explain that seatbelt hold across Micah’s chest as result of the double team.

The ref is however going to give him some leeway coming off the rip move and the OT extracts full value.

 

[MarcusRock]

As for this play, attempting a rip move isn't making a rip move, so that part of the rule is irrelevant. The OL had a hold of the front of Micah's jersey, while standing to the side and causing him to twist. This was before the G arrived.
The G never actually engaged, so I don't think you can call that a double team block. (To be frank, I don't understand how adding another blocker makes it legal to hold someone when it otherwise wouldn't be. That seems counterintuitive.)

I also highlighted that part of the rule because I've seen several people it's okay for an O-lineman to grab on to the pads/jersey, as long as it's inside on the body. That rule would seem to dispute that claim, unless I'm misunderstanding it.

When you dip your arm underneath an OL like that, it is a rip technique. The OL made it irrelevant by locking him up early, probably betting on that move. The rules don't state how effective is has to be, only that you use it and he did. I used the word "attempted" because it didn't work. But I'm not even claiming that exception because the initial charge was clean. It's the twisting part I'm not seeing at all. The crux of the holding rule is that you can't "materially restrict or alter the defender’s path or angle of pursuit." Micah was in no way prevented from his initial path to Fields. He proceeds in basically a straight line and never twists at all as a result of the block. He's simply just being blocked, and well. That's why any holding here is when Micah attempts to change direction could be called because then you are altering his path or angle of pursuit. If during the initial charge, Micah tried to go even wider instead of to the inside like he was and the OT didn't let go of the outside shoulder, that is a hold because he's preventing Parsons from where he wanted to pursue.

I share your confusion about the double-team holding but if the G touched Micah, like he did twice, he clearly engaged him. He tapped him once from the backside and then stays with him to double hand push him again. Two guys touching you at the same time is a double-team block. The rule makes no distinction on how early or late the double-team can or can't be, or how much engagement there actually is, only that if the hold happens while you're being double-teamed, holding won't be called.

As for the hands, yes, that is Article 2 of the same Rule 12:

ARTICLE 2. LEGAL BLOCK BY OFFENSIVE PLAYER. An offensive player is permitted to block an opponent by contacting him
with his head, shoulders, hands, and/or outer surface of the forearm, or with any other part of his body that is not prohibited by
another rule.

A blocker may use his arms, or open or closed hands, to contact an opponent on or outside the opponent’s frame (the body of an
opponent below the neck that is presented to the blocker), provided that he does not materially restrict him. The blocker must work
immediately to bring his hands inside the opponent’s frame, and as the play develops, the blocker is permitted to work for and
maintain his position against an opponent, provided that he does not illegally clip or illegally push from behind.

An offensive player is permitted to use his hands or arms to restrict an opponent:
(a) If he is a runner. A runner may ward off opponents with his hands and arms. He may also lay his hand on a teammate or
push him into an opponent, but he may not grasp or hold on to a teammate.
(b) During a loose ball that has touched the ground. An offensive player may use his hands/arms legally to block or otherwise
push or pull an opponent out of the way in a personal attempt to recover the ball. See specific fumble, pass, or kick rules and
especially 6-2-1.
(c) A kicking team player. See 6-2-1 and 9-1-4 for blocking restrictions during a kick.​

So you can use closed hands to contact a defender on the outside of the frame if you don't materially restrict him. So if there's no hooking, jerking, twisting, or other material restriction examples as listed in the rule, you can do that. Again, it's my contention there were none during that initial charge and nothing about Parsons' body showed an effect of such to me.

 

[MarcusRock]

I don’t think the double team rule applies here. You can’t explain that seatbelt hold across Micah’s chest as result of the double team.

The ref is however going to give him some leeway coming off the rip move and the OT extracts full value.

I'm not trying to connect the initial block to the double team. They are two separate parts for me. The OT just made a solid initial block. I think he bet on the rip and beat Micah to it. But why wouldn't the double team exception apply here? The rule only says that if the hold happens while you're being double-teamed it won't be called. If you'd call a hold here, it did.

 

[DanA]

I'm not trying to connect the initial block to the double team. They are two separate parts for me. The OT just made a solid initial block. I think he bet on the rip and beat Micah to it. But why wouldn't the double team exception apply here? The rule only says that if the hold happens while you're being double-teamed it won't be called. If you'd call a hold here, it did.

That’s not actually the wording though. I think you’d be hard pressed to say that action is part of a double team block.

The exception IMO is meant to clarify that linemen are not to be called for holding for hands on the outside. It does not permit a bear hug.

 

[MarcusRock]

That’s not actually the wording though. I think you’d be hard pressed to say that action is part of a double team block.

The exception IMO is meant to clarify that linemen are not to be called for holding for hands on the outside. It does not permit a bear hug.

So I went back to watch my video again and again and now what I see is that at that part where we think the OT yanked on Micah was actually made to look worse by the OG pushing Micah. I agree it can be ticky tack to claim the double team thing here but if the ref saw the OG push and believed that to be the reason for Micah's body action (that looked like he was yanked by the OT), then I can see why a hold wasn't called, albeit maybe not by way of the double-team exception.

 

[BAT]

Hint: Look at the right topmost corner of this graph.

 

[BAT]

 

[BAT]

 

[JBond]

He might be okay. Lol.