Barr or Donald?

[JoeyBoy718]

If they're both there at 16. I'd go with Barr. I think we could find a 3 tech via free agency with Hatcher or Melton, but I don't see any affordable edge rushers available and we have a huge need with Selvie as our top guy.

My ideal off-season. Sign Melton, draft Barr, draft a 1 tech in the 2nd-3rd round.

 

[AsthmaField]

Donald, but I'm probably his biggest fan on here.

I just think Donald is a better 3T DT than Barr will be a WDE. I honestly think Donald is athletically more special at DT than Barr is at DE.

In other words, you find DE/OLB candidates with Barr's skills in just about every draft... I think you might find 3T DT candidates with Donald's skills once every 7-10 years. Maybe.

Donald would be the better pick for our defense even if we cut Ware.

 

[CowboysLaw87]

As much as I love Donald, I'd go Barr. I just think he's a more valuable/rare commodity, and pass rushers from any position are of equal need.

 

[CowboysLaw87]

Donald, but I'm probably his biggest fan on here.

I just think Donald is a better 3T DT than Barr will be a WDE. I honestly think Donald is athletically more special at DT than Barr is at DE.

In other words, you find DE/OLB candidates with Barr's skills in just about every draft... I think you might find 3T DT candidates with Donald's skills once every 7-10 years. Maybe.

Donald would be the better pick for our defense even if we cut Ware.

You certainly set the bar on Donald's evaluation my friend. Some serious praise there. I give you credit for seeing what you see and standing by it strongly.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Either way I'd be very happy with either of these guys. If neither are available I would definitely trade down.

 

[AsthmaField]

You certainly set the bar on Donald's evaluation my friend. Some serious praise there. I give you credit for seeing what you see and standing by it strongly.

Yeah, I know it will probably be criticized a lot, but that is how I see it. Donald has almost ideal production, intangibles, athleticism, intelligence, work eithic, and off field character. The only thing he doesn't have is size... and in our defense he doesn't need any more. Barr on the other hand is a little bit of a projection based on athleticism alone, and hasn't really shown that much IMO.

That's just how I see it.

 

[CowboysLaw87]

AsthmaField, I wanted to add this question/comment:

How do you compare Donald as a 3T prospect against the following guys from the last 4 drafts.... Suh (2010), McCoy (2010), Cox (2012), Richardson (2013), Lotulelei (2013)? We've had this conversation about Donald v. Richardson and you said Donald. But to your "7-10 years" comment, I'd say there's been at least 4 or 5 in the last 4 years that I'd prefer at 3T over Donald.

 

[Doomsday101]

Donald, but I'm probably his biggest fan on here.

I just think Donald is a better 3T DT than Barr will be a WDE. I honestly think Donald is athletically more special at DT than Barr is at DE.

In other words, you find DE/OLB candidates with Barr's skills in just about every draft... I think you might find 3T DT candidates with Donald's skills once every 7-10 years. Maybe.

Donald would be the better pick for our defense even if we cut Ware.

I'm with you on Donald. The guy is relentless with a non stop motor.

 

[AsthmaField]

AsthmaField, I wanted to add this question/comment:

How do you compare Donald as a 3T prospect against the following guys from the last 4 drafts.... Suh (2010), McCoy (2010), Cox (2012), Richardson (2013), Lotulelei (2013)? We've had this conversation about Donald v. Richardson and you said Donald. But to your "7-10 years" comment, I'd say there's been at least 4 or 5 in the last 4 years that I'd prefer at 3T over Donald.

I love Suh, and would take him over Donald in a draft 10 out of 10 times. However, he doesn't have Donald's rare quickness or elite speed, and if we are talking strictly as an ideal 3-Tech, Donald fits the mold more perfectly. To put it another way, Donald fits Marinelli's 3-Tech spot and Suh fits anyone's DT spot. Suh is a better player and fits any defense... however, Donald might be a better 3-Tech for Marinelli. I hope that makes sense.

Just remember, I am talking exclusively as a 3T in Marinelli's defense.

I like Donald more than I like McCoy, although I do like McCoy. He has a little more size and so would fit way more defensive schemes, but I think Donald is a better 3T prospect coming out than McCoy was. Donald's physical package (speed, strength, leverage, quickness, lateral agility) are better than McCoy's was.

I think Fletcher Cox is a nice player, but I don't see him as close to Donald. Better size for most defenses, but without the rare quickness that would make him so dangerous as a 3T. Fletcher isn't really close IMO.

As you know, I really liked Richardson last year and he was my pick for who I wanted us to draft, but while he had quickness and speed, he wasn't in the same league as Donald's. I see Donald as a physically superior player in every regard to Richardson except size. That may be important to a lot of people, but for Marinelli's 3T, Donald's size is fine.

I liked Lotulelei a lot too, but he would be a 1-Tech in this defense and while he is a really good player, it would be very difficult for Lotulelei to make anywhere close to as big of an impact on this defense as a great 3-Tech could. If we already had Donald, I would absolutely love to have Lotulelei... but needing both positions, I would take Donald over him.

I hope that explains how I see it.

 

[bodi]

I go Barr a pass rusher - Ware is done

 

[DuDa]

That is a very tough question but I would have to say Donald because he is much closer to a finished product. However, I really do like Barr as a player. I watched that dude terrorize my USC Trojans and he can be as good as he wants to be--he's just not there yet.

 

[tm1119]

If they're both there at 16. I'd go with Barr. I think we could find a 3 tech via free agency with Hatcher or Melton, but I don't see any affordable edge rushers available and we have a huge need with Selvie as our top guy.

My ideal off-season. Sign Melton, draft Barr, draft a 1 tech in the 2nd-3rd round.

Well considering that free agency is a full 2 months ahead of the draft this year so the roster will be a lot more clear than usual

 

[Questfor6]

Give me Barr over Donald all day, this DT class is fairly deep and someone like Easley or Sutton will be there in round 2.

 

[dbonham]

Donald. I think he will be a Geno Atkins clone, who is surprisingly absent from the above comparisons

 

[KingintheNorth]

I'd go Barr (without a doubt) and then if Donald slid another 5 picks, start working the phones.

 

[unionjack8]

Barr.
I keep saying it but scheme versatility is imperative , especially considering garrett may not be here next year and likely any of his staff.
Its a big reason i like kony ealy at 16.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Barr.
I keep saying it but scheme versatility is imperative , especially considering garrett may not be here next year and likely any of his staff.
Its a big reason i like kony ealy at 16.

Good point. Donald might be a no brainer in Marrinelli's scheme but the last thing I've grown to expect with the Cowboys is continuity.

 

[CowboysLaw87]

AsthmaField (don't want to crush people with such a long quoted post to reply to)...

Completely see what you're getting at. The fact that you're conducting your analysis with an eye specifically on the "Marinelli 3T" and what that entails is totally understood. That said, and with all due respect, I think you're totally overlooking traits other than quickness that even Marinelli would really covet.

A perfect example is I just don't think there's any way Marinelli would choose Donald over Suh. Sure, Donald may be a tick quicker off the ball. But the degree to which Suh does other things (i.e., elite power, incredible athleticism for his size, terrifying tenacity) better than Donald would more than make up for the fact that Donald is a bit quicker. That's just my opinion, and of course you're entitled to yours.

And just to play Devil's Advocate, I'll point to what JoeyBoy just alluded to... what happens when Marinelli moves on? Donald, at 285 with that lack of length, while potentially perfect in this scheme because his shortcomings are minimized on the priority scale of this coaching staff, is a niche player. Analogous to a "system QB." If/when the system changes, he goes from perfect to good.

Again, I really like Donald. I even want us to draft him... he's #1 on my realistic list. But to say that he's above Suh or McCoy in ANY system is strong. But hey, that's what we're here for right? Bounce ideas off each other, debate, and pass the time until we see our 'Boys take the field again.

 

[AsthmaField]

Again, I really like Donald. I even want us to draft him... he's #1 on my realistic list. But to say that he's above Suh or McCoy in ANY system is strong. But hey, that's what we're here for right? Bounce ideas off each other, debate, and pass the time until we see our 'Boys take the field again.

Well, I don't have time to properly reply to this, but I want to clear up that I would want Donald over Suh. I don't think anyone would want Donald over Suh, and I certainly wouldn't. But if we are strictly talking about fit for the Marinelli 43 3-tech DT... Donald is a more typical fit. That's what I was trying to say.

I would probably take Donald over the other DT's that you mentioned if they were all rookies, but I would take Suh over all of them including Donald because of the size, power, attitude, etc.. I just want to be clear about that.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought Donald is better than Suh, because I don't think that.

 

[SportsGuru80]

Donald... I like Barr but Donald is more of a need honestly.