Bears DT Tank Johnson suspended for first 8 games of season

[carphalen5150]

Although I will admit that I am not fully informed of what the Commish considered, it would appear that Tank Johnson's suspension is more lenient than Pac Man's. I do not doubt that Pac Man is a big time thug, and maybe even worse than Tank, but it does not appear that Pac Man has ever been CONVICTED of anything. Tank obviously has.

I think the Commish is getting in way over his head here. I hope he has very good legal counsel, because I think he is eventually going to need it. Then again, maybe there is more to the story than the public is aware.

I would be willing to bet that Goodell took into account that Johnson served time already...so a year long punishment would be a semi-double jeopardy.

 

[Verdict]

There are certainly legal arguments to be made as to the manner that the punishment was determined, and how it stacks up against others. But that is largely the affair of legal lifeforms. The league, if it's done it's homework, can be relatively arbitrary as to how it metes out its fines to it's employees within the confines of their policy, until something else comes along to change it. No debate here will affect it.[/B].

The Commish apparantly wants to clean up the image of the NFL, at least to some extent. I seriously doubt that the Commish can be completely arbitrary about how he does it though and get by with it over the long haul. You refer to fines here, but what we are dealing with in this case are significant suspensions.

This is not just about Tank Johnson, and Pac Man. The Commish, to some extent, right now acts as judge, jury and executioner. He enjoys that "privelege" at this point. The problem is that the more arbitrary that he metes out punishment, and the more harsh that punishment is, the greater the chance is that that punishment will be overturned, and the greater the chance that the Commish's powers eventually get curtailed.

It is a little bit like punishing someone for getting a speeding ticket. No one is gonna feels sorry for you for getting a speeding ticket, if you are fined for it. On the other hand, if you get sentenced to death for speeding, it isn't gonna stand up.

I realize that example does not seem plausible, but there was a case in our local court here where a local judge actually sentenced a man to death for public drunk and said that he would be "hung by the neck until dead". The drunk actually passed out. The judge was kidding, of course. Besides, hanging is not even recognized as a legal means of execution in this state anymore.

 

[Verdict]

I would be willing to bet that Goodell took into account that Johnson served time already...so a year long punishment would be a semi-double jeopardy.

On the other hand, a "conviction" conclusively establishes guilt, whereas in Pac Man's case the basis for the suspension are essentially "allegations".

 

[burmafrd]

Actually Pacman was convicted (plead guilty) to that mess in Aug of 05, I think it was. that one where if he behaved for 6 months it would be stricken. The other charges are still winding their way through the courts. I am amazed after OJ and everything else that has happened over the last 10 years some people seem to think that being convicted or not being convicted means anything. Or are some here really trying to say that 9 times he was brought in and in dispute he was INNOCENT all 9 times? or even HALF of them?

 

[superpunk]

Actually Pacman was convicted (plead guilty) to that mess in Aug of 05, I think it was. that one where if he behaved for 6 months it would be stricken. The other charges are still winding their way through the courts. I am amazed after OJ and everything else that has happened over the last 10 years some people seem to think that being convicted or not being convicted means anything. Or are some here really trying to say that 9 times he was brought in and in dispute he was INNOCENT all 9 times? or even HALF of them?

It's not for Goodell to determine what Pac-Man is guilty of. It's also not fair for Goodell to (apparently) punish a guy retroactively for things the league has never seen fit to punish him for beforehand. The fact remains - the incidents that these two players are suspended for - are at the very least not that much different from one another. One guy served time - got his friend killed - etc. One guy has had nothing happen to him legally. Yet Goodell saw fit to suspend one for a season, and one for 8 games.

Nothing this "saint" does makes any sense, or has any correlation. Yes, he has been granted this pathetic dictatorial power to determine suspension severity. That does not mean he can't be criticized for excercising it poorly.

You don't go (as a league) from not giving a damn about PacMan's activities, to suspending him for an entire season. That is not a fair way to administer punishment. Even if he is a deplorable human being, he deserves fairness, and he didn't get it. Goodell continues to just make things up on the fly, administering punishment in severity relative to his monthly cycle. Punishment is necessary. But Goodell should not be allowed to do what he's doing.

So you're suggesting that his record punishment is retroactive, and is taking all these incidents into account? Incidents that:

(a) He has never been convicted of, to serve jail time

(b) the league has never seen fit to suspend him for previously, and

(c) include (no doubt to make the list seem worse, as it makes it longer) a verbal tantrum at a valet service, and being "allegedly" present at a fight at a gas station.

The league goes from not giving a crap, to a full-season's suspension. And they (read:Goodell) do it (apparently) retroactively.

I'm waiting on Leonard Little's suspension. After all, Goodell is so damn "fair" - might as well throw Jamal lewis in there, too. Hopefully the length of their suspensions continues to have absolutely no correlation to the severity of their "crime" (even if they've never been convicted).

Thank goodness we've got even-handed Goodell and his clear sets of retribution guidelines to "clean up" the league. What a saint.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Don't start celebrating too soon! While the suspension is supposed to be for 8 games, it's probably going to only be for 6 games ...if he stays out of trouble.

Come crunch time, Tank or Stank or whatever you feel comfortable calling him, could be tearing running back's heads off; and have a fresh pair of legs while doing it.

In case you haven't looked at the schedule we play them in Week 3, which makes it impossible for him to face Dallas in the regular season.

 

[burmafrd]

super, you just do not make much sense. You keep claiming Pacman is innocent. Of course he is not. There is MORE then enough evidence that he is guilty of several of those incidents. Yet you are hung up on our busted, pathetic court system. You are missing the trees for the forrest. You are defending Pacman and attacking Goodell. Does the FACT that about 90% of people totally disagree with you register at all? People are tired of THUGS like Pacman getting away with it. They want to see THUGS like Pacman held accountable by SOMEONE. Since the busted screwed up court system is failing badly, SOMEONE has to step up. Goodell is.

 

[joseephuss]

super, you just do not make much sense. You keep claiming Pacman is innocent. Of course he is not. There is MORE then enough evidence that he is guilty of several of those incidents. Yet you are hung up on our busted, pathetic court system. You are missing the trees for the forrest. You are defending Pacman and attacking Goodell. Does the FACT that about 90% of people totally disagree with you register at all? People are tired of THUGS like Pacman getting away with it. They want to see THUGS like Pacman held accountable by SOMEONE. Since the busted screwed up court system is failing badly, SOMEONE has to step up. Goodell is.

You are wrong. Well, not all wrong. It is not just Goodell stepping up. It is the players as well. They all want to make changes to protect their image from guys like Henry and Pacman. They pushed for the punishment. Now they are appealing the length, but it will probably still end up being a significant suspension. I bet at most it only gets reduced two games for Pacman. That will take it from 10 to 8 and further action will be pending on the results of his open cases.

 

[superpunk]

super, you just do not make much sense. You keep claiming Pacman is innocent.

No, I don't. I'd challenge you to find a single instance where I claimed that PacMan was innocent. And I'd prefer if you didn't shirk it when you realize that instance doesn't exist.

You are defending Pacman and attacking Goodell.

No - I'm not. I am attacking Goodell. The two are not inseperable, although you seem incapable of differentiating.

Does the FACT that about 90% of people totally disagree with you register at all?

This is a disaster of a statement.

(a) An appeal to popularity is a logical fallacy.

(b) You made up a statistic based on....nothing.

People are tired of THUGS like Pacman getting away with it. They want to see THUGS like Pacman held accountable by SOMEONE. Since the busted screwed up court system is failing badly, SOMEONE has to step up. Goodell is.

So Goodell is some modern day Robin Hood?

It is possible for him to "step up", and still remain fair and even-handed. He could outline a standard for punishment - he could set these standards (as harsh as need be) and apply them to everyone.

So far, he's been a miserable failure, when it comes to rationality and fair punishment. But, like you said - people can't abide these "thugs", and so they applaud Goodell's farts while sticking their nose in his rear end.

You know...the ***** had pieces of flair, that they made the Jews wear.

 

[Stash]

I agree with 'punk that a standardized set of rules need to be established. Otherwise, there's too much grey area and too much left in the hands of one man.

I certainly believe that these thugs are getting what they deserve, but the league and the commissioner should establish a clear set of rules and punishment for breaking those rules. That's at least as important as getting rid of the troublemakers.

 

[Yeagermeister]

If you think I'm dialoguing against an Admin ...forget it! Too dangerous for me ...I think I'll stay around to see another post if that's alright with you.

Now if I were talking to any other poster, I'd say... there aren't too many NFL players (on any respective team's payroll), that will just sit back and let themselves become out of shape. Tank may not be able to play in the "games" but there's nothing that says that he can't practice and stay in football shape ready for the next opportunity to play.

Besides, in Tank's position, fresh legs goes a long way at that point in time of the regular season.

He can work out on his own but he can't work out in the team facilities or practice with the team until his suspension is over. He can't have any contact with the team.

 

[burmafrd]

You guys do not get it. It IS in the hands of one person- the Commissioner. That is the way the CBA and everything else is. You might not like it, but it is done. Now as regards set standards. IT IS VERY SIMPLE. STAY OUT OF TROUBLE. How hard is that to do? Considering about 90%+ of NFL players do it now.
Frankly, Super, you say he(Goodell) is a miserable failure. Guess what? Virtually no one else thinks so- except those like Fuzzy, Pacman, Henry and a bunch of lawyers. Real good company for you to be in.

 

[superpunk]

It's like talking to a doorknob.

Glad to see you located that quote of me claiming that Jones was innocent.

Also glad to see you using the exact same fallacies and ridiculous argument tactics I pointed out earlier. You really know how to defend a stance.

 

[Vintage]

I get what superpunk is saying - and I agree. There needs to be some sort of standard of punishment. Right now, its entirely too arbitrary.

Goodell either did one of two things.

He either suspended PacMan for 16 games based on THIS particular incident.

or

He took into account PacMan's previous allegations.


If he did the latter, he could skirt by, saying that since Leonard Little and Jamal Lewis haven't been in the news lately so they must have "turned it around" whereas PacMan keeps reappearing in the news. But if Jamal Lewis or Leonard Little's names come up again for something "determental to the league" then Goodell HAS to take into account their previous transgressions.

If the former is true, then I fail to see how Tank Johnson doesn't get 16 games either. It doesn't matter if Johnson went to jail. He ADMITTED to a crime, was deemed guilty, and has to serve time to the state AND the NFL. If the NFL wants to be a seperate entity from the law (meaning, one doesn't have to face punishment by the law to face punishment from the league) then its should be deemed that serving punishment to the law DOES NOT constitue serving punishment to the league. He should have to serve the punishment to the league and punishment to the state shouldn't take into affect (positively) of said punishment to the league (as in the Bears arguing he served time in jail and should be granted some leniancy in his suspension as a result).

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

In case you haven't looked at the schedule we play them in Week 3, which makes it impossible for him to face Dallas in the regular season.

Apparently you have no aspirations of a ...playoff berth.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

The league is cleaning up the mess in the league.....good job

 

[Vintage]

Apparently you have no aspirations of a ...playoff berth.

Because it is certain we will have to face Chicago in the playoffs?

Please, provide me a link where it says so.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

He can work out on his own but he can't work out in the team facilities or practice with the team until his suspension is over. He can't have any contact with the team.

Operant words ..."he can work out." ...and he will be in shape when the consequences of his behavior have been exhausted.

But I clearly hear your point. My only point was to the one poster who thought JJ would have a cake walk throughout the season because Tank (he called him Stank) was not going to play at any point.

Listen, Tank isn't "all that," ...but he is certainly "some of that." Don't ocunt him out before the count of six, or eight ...or ten!

 

[superpunk]

I get what superpunk is saying - and I agree. There needs to be some sort of standard of punishment. Right now, its entirely too arbitrary.

Goodell either did one of two things.

He either suspended PacMan for 16 games based on THIS particular incident.

or

He took into account PacMan's previous allegations.


If he did the latter, he could skirt by, saying that since Leonard Little and Jamal Lewis haven't been in the news lately so they must have "turned it around" whereas PacMan keeps reappearing in the news. But if Jamal Lewis or Leonard Little's names come up again for something "determental to the league" then Goodell HAS to take into account their previous transgressions.

If the former is true, then I fail to see how Tank Johnson doesn't get 16 games either. It doesn't matter if Johnson went to jail. He ADMITTED to a crime, was deemed guilty, and has to serve time to the state AND the NFL. If the NFL wants to be a seperate entity from the law (meaning, one doesn't have to face punishment by the law to face punishment from the league) then its should be deemed that serving punishment to the law DOES NOT constitue serving punishment to the league. He should have to serve the punishment to the league and punishment to the state shouldn't take into affect (positively) of said punishment to the league (as in the Bears arguing he served time in jail and should be granted some leniancy in his suspension as a result).

Welcome to "10%".

That's exactly what I'm saying. And in any case, it's not clear one way or the other. Your first suggestion is the only way the punishments doled out between the two players can be deemed "fair". However - is it "fair" for Goodell to retroactively punish PacMan for things that the league never deemed necessary to suspend him for even ONE game previously?

None of it makes any sense. Goodell is out of hand, and it won't be long (if he continues this way) before the players union takes away his arbitrary power and forces him to set clear standards for punishment. He cannot legitimately function like this.

And PT.....:shoot2:

 

[Vintage]

PT, shouldn't you be worried about the key loss of Stallworth this season?

Its going to hurt you guys losing him....a weak WR core got weaker.