Beebe vs Biadasz: Why Beebe will be an upgrade at Center

[G2]

We'll see

 

[TNCowboy]

Guy who never actually played center will be an upgrade over a guy who signed a $30 million free agent deal and made a pro bowl? Hope springs eternal this time of year.
Yes I did watch the video, one guy was playing center, his natural position against current nfl players and the other was playing guard against players, the majority of which will never make an nfl roster.

This kid could develop into a great NFL center but it won’t happen overnight, worst case it looks like he could be a serviceable guard.

Tap the brakes time will tell

He wasn't a real pro bowler, he was an alternate. Biadacz was a jag, same as both the Connors before him. No telling what Beebe will do, but the Cowboys lost very little in letting Biadacz go. He was a liability against NFCE DTs.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

TB was All American/All Conf/Rimington Trophy/Pro Bowl.

His NFL stats are impressive.

He left because we are cap broke.

DQ jumped all over this.

TB has a $30 million contract.

TB haters don’t like it. 8)

Gino Toretta once won the Heisman Trophy.

Tyler Huntley once made the Pro Bowl after throwing for 658 yards and just 2 TDs for the season.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Fredbeard was 312 at the combine and gained a little after that. So Beebe is not as much an outlier as you want to make him out to be as regards potentially being a top center.
And you put too much emphasis on second level activity. the PRIMARY duty of a center is snap the ball; and hold the middle and be able to push on the run game. All the rest is good to have BUT NOT THAT NECESSARY. As long as he has quick enough feet to deal with those areas, then he will be fine.
A power running game has lots of benefits that Beebe's strengths play to. I would much rather have a road grader than a finesse player

If that's your ideal Center then we will just have to agree to disagree. If this were the 1980s I may agree with you, but the game has changed. Modern day Oline positions in general can't survive on brute strength alone. The game has evolved with rule changes over the year that has brought us spread offenses, lighter boxes, and hybrid players at nearly every position group. In the run game teams have to have a combination of power and zone runs and Beebe could be very good in both, I just need to see him move side to side on an NFL field before I label him a plus player in a zone scheme. A lot of these zone runs you're asking your Center to go help your G seal off a 3T then get upfield to block the middle backer. If your C can't do this consistently it makes it very easy for a defense to prepare for the limited types of runs you can actually call. If your G has to be the one to go get the backer every time then as a defense I know that every run you make to the strong side of the field will be cut inside because your C isn't going to realistically reach the outside shoulder of a 3T. Todays game if your C is a pure power player I wouldn't use a NT at all. I'd keep my DTs spread out and be over the Gs to make that interior player move his feet as much as possible.

And for the record let me say that I'm not saying Beebe can't do any of this, I'm just saying I need to see it before I crown him as an upgrade over Biadasz, and stand by my opinion that Oline play at the 2nd level is crucial.

 

[sandbridge77]

He wasn't a real pro bowler, he was an alternate. Biadacz was a jag, same as both the Connors before him. No telling what Beebe will do, but the Cowboys lost very little in letting Biadacz go. He was a liability against NFCE DTs.

Never suggested that they start preparing his bust for Canton, my point was expecting a rookie who never had played the position to be an upgrade is quite the stretch which was the basis of the original post.

 

[Whyjerry]

I did not like TB. The weakest strong guy I have ever seen. Very rarely stood DTs up.

 

[irishline]

Beebe was a 2nd round talent that luckily fell to the Cowboys early in the 3rd round. Also, Travis Frederick was the 31st overall pick taken (end of the 1st round), so Beebe is not that far behind him in talent as a blocker. Certainly much better than Biadasz.

Biadasz was a unanimous all-American and won the Rimington Award as the best center in college football in 2019. He was no slouch in college. My point being, if you are going to show video of two players to compare them it needs to be an apples to apples comparison. So lets see a video of Biadasz's last year in college alongside one of Beebe (not Biadasz playing against NFL competition).

I am optimistic that Bebee will be a good center, and better than Biadasz. He certainly has the strength and some traits to do so. My point here is using college video of one player to say he is better than the NFL video of another player (who was awarded the best center in college his last year) does not prove anything about either player. Without personally seeing video of Tyler in college, I would go out on a limb as say he probably looked all world against lesser college competition as well.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

I wonder if the Cowboys will eventually get another center and groom Beebe to be the long term Zack Martin replacement at right guard.

 

[gtb1943]

If that's your ideal Center then we will just have to agree to disagree. If this were the 1980s I may agree with you, but the game has changed. Modern day Oline positions in general can't survive on brute strength alone. The game has evolved with rule changes over the year that has brought us spread offenses, lighter boxes, and hybrid players at nearly every position group. In the run game teams have to have a combination of power and zone runs and Beebe could be very good in both, I just need to see him move side to side on an NFL field before I label him a plus player in a zone scheme. A lot of these zone runs you're asking your Center to go help your G seal off a 3T then get upfield to block the middle backer. If your C can't do this consistently it makes it very easy for a defense to prepare for the limited types of runs you can actually call. If your G has to be the one to go get the backer every time then as a defense I know that every run you make to the strong side of the field will be cut inside because your C isn't going to realistically reach the outside shoulder of a 3T. Todays game if your C is a pure power player I wouldn't use a NT at all. I'd keep my DTs spread out and be over the Gs to make that interior player move his feet as much as possible.

And for the record let me say that I'm not saying Beebe can't do any of this, I'm just saying I need to see it before I crown him as an upgrade over Biadasz, and stand by my opinion that Oline play at the 2nd level is crucial.

once again the majority of plays are not what you claim is so important. You seem to forget this is interior linemen not tackles. What you claim is so important simply is not true compared to the problems we had with a quick Center which we did have in Biadasz. He is what you claim we need but he FAILED.

 

[Walker]

Only the Cowboys know how to draft, that is why were so successful. The other teams need to learn from cap boy.

 

[gtb1943]

Only the Cowboys know how to draft, that is why were so successful. The other teams need to learn from cap boy.

sarcasm so thick it will stop a Abrams going full speed....

 

[America's Cowboy]

Biadasz was a unanimous all-American and won the Rimington Award as the best center in college football in 2019. He was no slouch in college. My point being, if you are going to show video of two players to compare them it needs to be an apples to apples comparison. So lets see a video of Biadasz's last year in college alongside one of Beebe (not Biadasz playing against NFL competition).

I am optimistic that Bebee will be a good center, and better than Biadasz. He certainly has the strength and some traits to do so. My point here is using college video of one player to say he is better than the NFL video of another player (who was awarded the best center in college his last year) does not prove anything about either player. Without personally seeing video of Tyler in college, I would go out on a limb as say he probably looked all world against lesser college competition as well.

Come on. Who are you kidding? Biadasz was not making such pancake blocks in college as Beebe has. Not even close.



Nor especially was Biadasz able to handle big DTs from pushing him back into the QB the way Beebe does.

Here is Voch Lombardi who absolutely loved Biadasz coming out of college 4 years ago, giving him overblown praise for lesser play than what we see now from Lombardi today for Cooper Beebe. Check out both tapes. The 4 years ago hype for Biadasz and the today's hype for Beebe while acknowledging how Biadasz struggled against big DTs.





It's not even close. Beebe is a better blocker against NFL sized and talented DTs than Biadasz ever was.

 

[America's Cowboy]

I did not like TB. The weakest strong guy I have ever seen. Very rarely stood DTs up.

Agreed. I saw the same and made the same assumption about Biadasz coming out of college. For years, CowboyRoy and I went at it. CR was a hard-core defender of Biadasz while I said Connor Williams would have made a better Center (which he did as soon as the Dolphins picked him up and converted him to Center). I wish CowboyRoy was still here to see him go nuts and eat some crow. lol

 

[America's Cowboy]

These "certain" or "guaranteed" posts always make me chuckle. Whatever you need to sleep at night I guess.
Look, I'm high on Beebe too. I'm hopeful he could be really good, but the fact is, no one knows for sure until he gets out there and digs in.
Showing film of Biadasz struggling at times with NFL DT's (Jonathan Allen, DaRon Payne, Dexter Lawrence, Jordan Phillips, Jalen Carter, Jordan Davis just to name the DTs in our own division), and then showing Beebe pushing around college kids who will never play in the NFL, are 2 different things.
IMO, Biadasz was a lot better than people gave him credit for. He was a top 5 pass blocking center by metrics, and overall an above average NFL center. Now, did the Cowboys make the right move in letting him go? Probably. They replaced a guy who got almost 10 mil a year with a guy who will make 1/10th that. Biadasz at a 4th round pick salary was value, Biadasz at almost 10 mil per year is likely not value, considering he basically is what he is, an average to slightly above average NFL center. So I think the team made the right move, and I'm hopeful that Beebe could become better than Biadasz (I actually think he will due to some of the traits you guys point out).
But to say that it's certain that Beebe is an upgrade over Biadasz on day 1 is foolish. You don't know that no matter how much you want it to be true. No one knows for sure. Beebe will likely have wins and losses, just like Biadasz did, and I agree that Biadasz is what he is at this point, and if you can replace an average starter making 10 mil per with a 3rd round player on an affordable rookie deal you do so. It's the smart move, plus Beebe has a higher ceiling at this point, as I said, Biadasz is what he is at this point.
There must be 10 threads about how our draft picks are better than the guys they are replacing, and to say it's "certain" that Beebe is an upgrade over Biadasz on day 1 is foolish. I remember similar threads about how great Mazi was going to be, huge upgrade over Hankins, yet Hankins continued to start and Mazi rarely played in Year 1.
Let's wait until they play football before making these proclamations.

Read and watch the tapes of my last post above ^^^.

 

[Whyjerry]

Agreed. I saw the same and made the same assumption about Biadasz coming out of college. For years, CowboyRoy and I went at it. CR was a hard-core defender of Biadasz while I said Connor Williams would have made a better Center (which he did as soon as the Dolphins picked him up and converted him to Center). I wish CowboyRoy was still here to see him go nuts and eat some crow. lol

Yeah he was supposed to be this stout maybe less athletic guy but ended up being not athletic and weak. Got pushed around way too often.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Yeah he was supposed to be this stout maybe less athletic guy but ended up being not athletic and weak. Got pushed around way too often.

Agreed.

But...but...but Tyler Biadasz was an All American/All Conf/Rimington Trophy winner.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Beebe is a better blocker against NFL sized and talented DTs than Biadasz ever was.

This is exactly right. Fans will see the difference on the field this year.

 

[Gangsta Spanksta]

So no excuses next season?

 

[xwalker]

The NFL I'd making an exception...Beebe to be inducted in the HoF during his rookie training camp...

 

[Streifenkarl]

Tap the brakes? Even for some optimism? The film clearly shows Beebe is a much better blocker than Biadasz. Yes, it will take time for Beebe to fully grasp the Center position which he has never played, but the young man is very smart and way more physically capable than Biadiasz was.

Well since you will be the first one to throw the o line under the bus once your boi craps his pants in the play offs once again it's really interesting (to say the least) to listen to you babbling about optimism.

Really interesting.