Before you trash the Defense, consider this

[khiladi]

Bengals Offensive statistics:
Yards per Run: 2.7
Yards per Pass: 5.1
Total Yards per play: 4.2

Starting Field Position on Scoring drives:
Own 48 (long kick return)
Dallas 29 (Romo Fumble+Barber Penalty)
Own 28 (Good punt, good coverage)
Dallas 41 (Interception+long return)
Dallas 37 (long kick return)

4 out of 5 drives started on the Dallas side of the field or close to it.

I'm not saying the defense is doing great, but considering the turnovers and the special team play, you have to excuse them.

Look at the Bengal's 3rd down conversion rate and number of first downs and compare it to the Titans and Ravens...

 

[Temo]

Look at the Bengal's 3rd down conversion rate and number of first downs and compare it to the Titans and Ravens...

As we all know, the Titans and Ravens are probably the best defenses in the league, and neither has a prolific offense, to say the least. So they should have very low offensive stats when playing each other, right? Here we go:

3rd Down Conversion:
Bengals: 42%
Ravens: 50%
Titans: 46%

First Downs :
Bengals: 18
Ravens: 22
Titans: 14

Average per Rushing Play:
Bengals: 2.7
Ravens: 3.5
Titans: 2.1

Average per Passing Play:
Bengals: 5.1
Ravens: 5.7
Titans: 5.1

(Cowboys were 60% 3rd down conversion, 18 first downs, 5.2 per running play, 7.3 per passing play)

 

[khiladi]

As we all know, the Titans and Ravens are probably the best defenses in the league, and neither has a prolific offense, to say the least. So they should have very low offensive stats when playing each other, right? Here we go:

3rd Down Conversion:
Bengals: 42%
Ravens: 50%
Titans: 46%

I'm not talking about the offensive stats for each of these teams. I'm talking about how these teams played defensively against the Bengals, compared to how the Cowboys played defensively.

Cincinatti's 3rd down conversion rate against the Ravens was 15.4 percent.
They had only 8 first downs against the Ravens.

Cincinatti's 3rd down conversion rate against the Titans was 23.1 percent.
They had 11 first downs against the Titans.

Cincinatti's 3rd down conversion rate against the Cowboys was 42.9 percent.
They had 18 first downs against the Cowboys.

Dallas' defense is not even close to these two elite defenses.

Oh yeah, and the Commanders held the Eagles to one TD, while the Eagles had their best offensive output against us. They can't even keep Springs healthy, and they also have Smoots as a DB... It is embarassing...

 

[Temo]

I'm not talking about the offensive stats for each of these teams. I'm talking about how these teams played defensively against the Bengals, compared to how the Cowboys played defensively.

Cincinatti's 3rd down conversion rate against the Ravens was 15.4 percent.
They had only 8 first downs against the Ravens.

Cincinatti's 3rd down conversion rate against the Titans was 23.1 percent.
They had 11 first downs against the Titans.

Cincinatti's 3rd down conversion rate against the Cowboys was 42.9 percent.
They had 18 first downs against the Cowboys.

Dallas' defense is not even close to these two elite defenses.

Oh yeah, and the Commanders held the Eagles to one TD, while the Eagles had their best offensive output against us. They can't even keep Springs healthy, and they also have Smoots as a DB... It is embarassing...

What exactly is your point? I was saying that the Defense had a decent game yesterday, but wasn't great... now you're talking about the Commanders and the Eagles and how the Bengals did against the two best defenses in the league. I never said the Cowboys were an elite defense, just that they did well.

Also:

Why not compare the Giants game, a much more recent game where the giants are supposed to also have a good defense? Oh right, because they totaled 24 first downs on 58% 3rd down rate.

 

[Mansta54]

And you sound like an ignorant fan dealing only in absolutes!

Ouch!!!!

 

[khiladi]

What exactly is your point? I was saying that the Defense had a decent game yesterday, but wasn't great... now you're talking about the Commanders and the Eagles and how the Bengals did against the two best defenses in the league. I never said the Cowboys were an elite defense, just that they did well.

I'm talking about where this defense is failing... This is a key problem with respect to the Dallas defense and it is hidden when they play weaker opponents...

They don't stop teams on third-down and they can't get to the QB...

Why not compare the Giants game, a much more recent game where the giants are supposed to also have a good defense? Oh right, because they totaled 24 first downs on 58% 3rd down rate.

When the Cowboys lose Ware and Ratliff, like the Giants lose Strahan and Osi, get back to me.... The Cowboys have much better players on defense and they aren't playing like the Titans and Ravens...

 

[Temo]

I'm talking about where this defense is failing... This is a key problem with respect to the Dallas defense and it is hidden when they play weaker opponents...

They don't stop teams on third-down and they can't get to the QB...



When the Cowboys lose Ware and Ratliff, like the Giants lose Strahan and Osi, get back to me.... The Cowboys have much better players on defense and they aren't playing like the Titans and Ravens...

And I never said they were playing like the Titans or Ravens. But if holding a team to 61 yards rushing and 208 yards passing (on 39 attempts) is somehow a failure, then I just don't get that.

My whole point wasn't that the Cowboys excelled yesterday... anyone watching the game knows that's not true. But they did play OK, and we would be remiss if we didn't give equal (if not more) blame for the 22 points on the offense for turning the ball over and the special teams for surrendering field position.

 

[jobberone]

I do disagree that it was quick drops and short passes. For instance, most of the passes to TJ Houshmanzadeh were plays where Palmer took a full drop.

I will grant this though: The bengals used more blockers than most opponents have used against the cowboys, and it showed.

That was a 5 step drop and we were not in our base defense either. And the problem was a blown coverage and not the lack of a pass defense although on that play the pass rush was not the best.

You are going to have numerous plays where there is no apparent pass rush. Some defensive sets aren't conducive to a good pass rush.

That's the problem I'm having with the majority of the naysayers. They don't have enough understanding of the game to know what they're talking about. They don't even know what the hell I'm talking about. They see no pass rush and they immediately start assuming the players suck, the coaches suck, the schemes suck, they have no heart, etc.

I'm truly just disgusted even though I understand it's just a game/forum, it's just words, I should at most be annoyed, or whatever psychobabble you want to apply.

 

[silverbear]

First I think this is a good thread. See my posts above. But I do not understand why people keep saying our pass rush is not there.

I've made comment after comment and it's obvious not many agree with me but I'm certain I'm right about this. You are not going to get to a QB who is making quick drops and throwing to short routes. No one is going to consistently get to any QB in that situation.

This is absolutely, 100 per cent true... the Boys are currently 2nd in the NFL in fewest completions per game over 20 yards, a clear indication that all they're giving up is the short stuff... a lot of the time, opposing QBs aren't even looking downfield, and the reason is they're scared of the Cowboys' pass rush...

Pay attention to WHEN the Cowboys' sacks are happening... the vast majority of the time, it's very late in the ball game... the reason for this is most of the time, opponents are behind at that point, and pretty much HAVE to look downfield...

And when that happens, they become easy prey to the pass rush...

Even with all the short passing, the Boys are still 6th in the NFL in sacks, meaning they still have one of the most effective pass rushes out there...

This was a very good, very astute post, jobber...

 

[silverbear]

I'm talking about where this defense is failing... This is a key problem with respect to the Dallas defense and it is hidden when they play weaker opponents...

They don't stop teams on third-down and they can't get to the QB...

Well, now I know that you're a football illiterate...

The Boys rank 6th in the league in sacks right now, and are 14th in 3rd down conversion percentage allowed... the reality is, their pass rush is one of the best in the league (when you factor in that opponents throw short on the Cowboys, for the most part), and is at least average when it comes to defending on 3rd down...

The Cowboys have much better players on defense and they aren't playing like the Titans and Ravens...

Uhhh, no, they don't... and they've had a couple of their better defenders, Pro Bowlers, miss considerable time thus far this season...

 

[silverbear]

That's the problem I'm having with the majority of the naysayers. They don't have enough understanding of the game to know what they're talking about.

Man, if ever a post called for the emoticon, this one is it...

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Despite the statistics, the Dallas defense was at one point covering a WR with Ellis in the red zone.
At another point, the Bengals offense was within one score of staging the biggest upset of the season.
I hope the stats comfort Wade, but the overall soft coverage, lacking of jamming and the lack of a killer instinct bugged me no end.

Stats tell a completely different story than the play from what looked like (at times) an indifferent defense.

 

[khiladi]

The Boys rank 6th in the league in sacks right now, and are 14th in 3rd down conversion percentage allowed... the reality is, their pass rush is one of the best in the league (when you factor in that opponents throw short on the Cowboys, for the most part), and is at least average when it comes to defending on 3rd down...

And average is good? Last time I checked, average doesn't mean 13 pro-bowl players...

If we are sixth in the league in sacks and average at 3rd down conversion, it means we aren't pressuring the QB when it counts... We have plenty of garbage-time sacks... Lucky that our offense forces teams to be one-domensional...

Like I said, that is our weakness...

 

[jazzcat22]

Ocho was pretty quiet though it seemed, so somehow he was kept in check. Burt still way too many others left open and uncovered. I am not sure about our defense yet. Good, yes, one of the best...no.

 

[AdamJT13]

And average is good? Last time I checked, average doesn't mean 13 pro-bowl players.

We don't have 13 Pro Bowl players on defense. We have five, but we had only three on Sunday (Ware, Ellis and Hamlin) because two were out with injuries.

 

[jterrell]

Bengals Offensive statistics:
Yards per Run: 2.7
Yards per Pass: 5.1
Total Yards per play: 4.2

Starting Field Position on Scoring drives:
Own 48 (long kick return)
Dallas 29 (Romo Fumble+Barber Penalty)
Own 28 (Good punt, good coverage)
Dallas 41 (Interception+long return)
Dallas 37 (long kick return)

4 out of 5 drives started on the Dallas side of the field or close to it.

I'm not saying the defense is doing great, but considering the turnovers and the special team play, you have to excuse them.

uh, exactly!