Belichick outcoached Carroll on the final INT

[Nightman]

Right, that is what I am saying. If Belichick calls the timeout there, they likely come back and run the ball. Because he didn't call the timeout, this forced them to wind the clock down and then make a panicked throw.

To me it was irrelevant what Belichick did. He wasn't in control of anything. They were on their heels and all they could do was stand their ground and hope for a miracle, which Carroll delivered. If Carroll is waiting on Belichick to decide what to do next, he already lost.

Granted Butler made a great play on the ball, but it should have never been thrown. Let Wilson roll out and he has the run/throw option and can even stop the clock by running out of bounds.

 

[khiladi]

It would not be a bad call in a different situation, like when you have plenty of time.

Even if he had caught that pass, the way New England had it covered, I doubt he would have scored. Instead the ball would have been downed at the 1 and they would have had to call their timeout, same as a run. A pass like that is more likely to be tipped also. Safe pass would be a corner fade or maybe roll Wilson out and if nothing is WFingO sling it out the back of the endzone.

i'm not doubting its a dumb call, but again, according to BB, They practiced that play specifically because they do it all the time down there.

And if you actually watch the play, every single receiver was covered, even the TE who was showing block but went on his route. It wasn't just Butler who broke the route, not a single receiver was even close to open, it looked like they knew the routes meaning they knew the play.

The Patriots knew it was pass from the get go and they knew pass. They didn't even think possible read option to Lynch. When Butler broke, he headed straight for the ball right away. Even if you watch the angle from RWs view, he side steps 83 to catch the ball GOING FULL SPEED.

None of this went into play in Carroll's answer. He simply said they chose to pass as opposed to run. The whole world said what they did was totally stupid to pass, yet BB was saying it was practiced against specifically.

 

[Jenky]

i'm not doubting its a dumb call, but again, according to BB, They practiced that play specifically because they do it all the time down there.

And if you actually watch the play, every single receiver was covered, even the TE who was showing block but went on his route. It wasn't just Butler who broke the route, not a single receiver was even close to open, it looked like they knew the routes meaning they knew the play.

The Patriots knew it was pass from the get go and they knew pass. They didn't even think possible read option to Lynch. When Butler broke, he headed straight for the ball right away. Even if you watch the angle from RWs view, he side steps 83 to catch the ball GOING FULL SPEED.

None of this went into play in Carroll's answer. He simply said they chose to pass as opposed to run. The whole world said what they did was totally stupid to pass, yet BB was saying it was practiced against specifically.

Well based on that, it's plausible the Patriots didn't call timeout because they knew the play/formation and let Seattle play into their hands.

It looks worse and worse IMO. I still stand by what I originally thought. What an idiotic play call. I don't care if Carroll thought he had to pass on 2nd down to get a chance of using all 4 downs. He had to score, didn't take his best shot (running) and chose managing downs over the most obvious thing to do.

And you can't convince me that passing on 2nd down was the pre-requisite to using all 4 downs.

New England wasn't stopping the run that game and they were pretty bad at stopping the run in the playoffs.

 

[Proximo]

Carroll messed the whole thing up. You can't worry about 4th down options when you have the ball on the 1 with a minute left and Beast Mode in the backfield. You don't get beat with your third or fourth best option. If they lined it up and got stuffed 3 times, then so be it, that's football.

Throwing a slant across the middle against a goal line D with a short QB and a 4th string, small WR should've never been an option. If you think you have to throw, then play action, bootleg or throw a fade.

The strategy, the call and the execution were all sub-par.

So much this. They literally just botched the whole deal. The game was there waiting for them to win it.

It was a terrible playcall, poorly executed. And if they were trying to goad the other team into burning a timeout then it was a dumb strategy, since they had such a poor reaction to them not calling a timeout.

And if for whatever reason you're absolutely hell bent on passing it there, you don't friggin throw it over the middle into intense traffic and tight coverage! That's either a bootleg or fade that the QB throws out the back of the end zone if nothing is there.

With their personnel they should've ran it anyway.

 

[DallasCowboys2080]

if you're gonna pass it....at least play option man. play option! deception! why the seahawks moved away from their bread and butter in that instance is beyond me. no deception at all at an important time in the ball game? the balls of PC. BACKFIRED.

 

[khiladi]

No offensive PI in the second to last drive on the Brady bomb. I have no idea how anyone missed that.

I vaguely remember on that same drive on a second or third and long dump off that resulted in a first on the left sideline where the Patriots linemen held the Seattle LB after pulling far out and the Seahawks sideline was signaling hold. And the missed defensive PI when the Patriots CB tripped the the Seahawks WR with his arms after he fell, which nobody could have seriously missed.
This also happened in that specific stretch of crucial football.

The problem with that last one was the Kearse miraculous catch that obscured that. And then the inexplicable play-call that Bellichek says they practiced for.

 

[Hoofbite]

They didn't have time/timeouts to do that. I truly believe that Carroll was trying to get Belichik to call the timeout there, and when he didn't bite, they were screwed. It didn't help that they had to burn a timeout after the Kearse catch.

I am just amazed at how many variables these guys have to factor in such a small amount of time. Only through tons of experience can you get down to this level, and most people don't even notice it.

Meh, they had 1:00 and 1 timeout. It wouldn't have taken much time at all to reset.

 

[Rogah]

No offensive PI in the second to last drive on the Brady bomb. I have no idea how anyone missed that.

I vaguely remember on that same drive on a second or third and long dump off that resulted in a first on the left sideline where the Patriots linemen held the Seattle LB after pulling far out and the Seahawks sideline was signaling hold. And the missed defensive PI when the Patriots CB tripped the the Seahawks WR with his arms after he fell, which nobody could have seriously missed.
This also happened in that specific stretch of crucial football.

The problem with that last one was the Kearse miraculous catch that obscured that. And then the inexplicable play-call that Bellichek says they practiced for.

You have officially crossed the line from Patriots-hater to ridiculously-obsessive crybaby whining hater.

Seriously. I don't think I've ever seen someone so obsessively hate another team. I actually kinda respect it, yet remain thankful that I don't burn up with hatred at the success other teams enjoy.

 

[khiladi]

You have officially crossed the line from Patriots-hater to ridiculously-obsessive crybaby whining hater.

Seriously. I don't think I've ever seen someone so obsessively hate another team. I actually kinda respect it, yet remain thankful that I don't burn up with hatred at the success other teams enjoy.

And yet, your following me around trying to discredit what I said.

 

[yimyammer]

I can't believe no one is talking about this. It looked like Carroll was trying to confuse the Pats with subbing in 3 WRs and expected the Pats to call a timeout. It was almost like a game of chicken and the Seahawks flinched first. Instead of just regrouping and calling their own timeout, they tried to force the play and the rest is history. It's almost like they were baited into throwing it.

I was stunned Belichik wasn't calling a timeout there but he obviously knows way more than I ever will about football. If he actually saw that coming its amazing and took brass ones. Hearing how they had prepared for that play makes me think that's probably why he didn't call the TO and after the players got to see the tangible results of applying Belichiks coaching, I'd imagine those guys will do just about anything for him and why they've had so much success over the years.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I can't believe no one is talking about this. It looked like Carroll was trying to confuse the Pats with subbing in 3 WRs and expected the Pats to call a timeout. It was almost like a game of chicken and the Seahawks flinched first. Instead of just regrouping and calling their own timeout, they tried to force the play and the rest is history. It's almost like they were baited into throwing it.

It's pretty cut and dry.

One coach was about to lose.
One was about to win.

One play/player caused those roles to flip flop.




Carroll got too cute.
Bill thought it was over.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

It's pretty cut and dry.

One coach was about to lose.
One was about to win.

One play/player caused those roles to flip flop.




Carroll got too cute.
Bill thought it was over.

One play.

Its amazing how important one play is.

That one play "GAVE" the Patsies a victory and robbed the Seabags of it at the same time. Their own fault. Belicheat would have had a .500 Super Bowl record and on that one play he is now 2 games over .500 in Super Bowls. Petey would have been 2-0, back to back, and undefeated in Super Bowls, on par with Jimmy, and now because of one play, he is a .500 Super Bowl coach.

 

[Aven8]

Where was the read option? How many times has Wilson scored walking in on that? Hell he scored against us on that play.

However after rewatching it Lockette ran a horrible route. Horrible. You've got to get across your man there, regardless if he reads it like he did and goes for it. You get it or nobody does.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Where was the read option? How many times has Wilson scored walking in on that? Hell he scored against us on that play.

However after rewatching it Lockette ran a horrible route. Horrible. You've got to get across your man there, regardless if he reads it like he did and goes for it. You get it or nobody does.

Poorly executed play for sure. If it worked nobody is talking about the bonehead playcall. It didn't work and the stupidity of the call in that situation is revealed. Kinda like driving drunk for Josh Brent. The stupidity of it only comes out because of the consequences.

 

[Rogah]

Poorly executed play for sure. If it worked nobody is talking about the bonehead playcall. It didn't work and the stupidity of the call in that situation is revealed. Kinda like driving drunk for Josh Brent. The stupidity of it only comes out because of the consequences.

If it worked, everyone is talking about how brilliant they were for passing the ball when everyone was expecting a Marshawn run.

 

[big dog cowboy]

If

 

[Rogah]

My point exactly. Sports history is replete with ifs, ands and buts. The winners are geniuses and losers are morons.

 

[jimmy40]

One play.

Its amazing how important one play is.

That one play "GAVE" the Patsies a victory and robbed the Seabags of it at the same time. Their own fault. Belicheat would have had a .500 Super Bowl record and on that one play he is now 2 games over .500 in Super Bowls. Petey would have been 2-0, back to back, and undefeated in Super Bowls, on par with Jimmy, and now because of one play, he is a .500 Super Bowl coach.

one play my ***, maybe Seattle shouldn't have given up 14 points in the 4th quarter.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

If it worked, everyone is talking about how brilliant they were for passing the ball when everyone was expecting a Marshawn run.

And, . . . . . . . . . . . . . Belicheat & Cry Brady are .500 in Super Bowls.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

one play my ***, maybe Seattle shouldn't have given up 14 points in the 4th quarter.

While that is true, they still win the game if they dont blow it on that 2nd down. That one play will forever haunt everybody associated with the Seabags, because that one play was a gift to NE. As the game unfolded it all came down to that one play. Everything else in the game up to that point was irrelevant because that one play was the deciding factor.