better oline than last year?

[Zaxor]

I posted this in another thread but it is so good it deserves its own


Look do you believe BP knows what he is doing if so read further if not than no need to read further...

Last year the starting RT was Torrin Tucker regardless of the injury to Rogers... Pettiti beat out Tucker for the spot before Flo went down so we upgraded the RT and that is the Gospel according to Parcells...Amen

last year our starting right guard was Gurode...He was so bad we spent 9 million to fix it and according to the player himself he is 100% healthy plus we have Gurode sitting on the bench so we upgraded the RG and that is the Gospel according to Parcells...Amen

last year our starting Center was Al Johnson he was so good last year that we felt that we need not upgrade the position and only brought a token challenge from Gurode in training camp...another year for a young player under Parcells tuteledge is a slight upgrade but still we upgraded the C that is the Gospel according to Parcells...Amen

last year our starting left guard was Allen who has while not reached his form of old has gotten better each year under Parcells...Heck he is so good Peterson can't even sniff the field...again a slight upgrade but still we upgraded the RG that is the Gospel according to Parcells...Amen

last year our starting left tackle was Flozell Adams but Flo was having a horrible year last year but he still managed to defend off all new comers in training camp and retained his starting position but fell to injury after a rather auspicious start to the season in steps Torrin Tucker who is way better on the left side than he was on the right side last year and that is the Gospel according to Parcells....Amen

so there you have it an improved oline in 4 of the 5 positions and a much improved player in the 5th and final position...heck what more can you ask for

do not be mad at me for trying to show the people the truth of what is happening...

you fine folk can disagree all you wish but if you read this far I will assume that you believe that Parcells knows what he is doing... so please keep your emotions and your feely things to yourself and just use logic and understand that Parcells had a better offensive line this year than last...After all he built it...

 

[burmafrd]

More talented- YES. Better-NO. NOT AS GOOD AT RUN BLOCKING FOR SURE.
Coaching- specifically the O line coaching- must be looked at as well. Rivera underperformed; Johnson as well. The only clear talent downgrade was when Flo went out. BUT BEFORE THAT the line was not doing as well at run blocking as it did last year. After that the same.

 

[Eddie]

Our biggest mistake was sinking so much money into Rivera ... a 33 year old bum with a bad back. Great!!!

He played at the same level Gurode played at the previous year.

The money could have been spent on a real RT. Gurode was fine at OG and Tyson Walter or Matt Lehr were perfectly fine at backup Center.

 

[iceberg]

More talented- YES. Better-NO. NOT AS GOOD AT RUN BLOCKING FOR SURE. Coaching- specifically the O line coaching- must be looked at as well. Rivera underperformed; Johnson as well. The only clear talent downgrade was when Flo went out. BUT BEFORE THAT the line was not doing as well at run blocking as it did last year. After that the same.

fact: parcells built this line. he's had 3 years and this line now belongs to him 100%.
fact: it sucks.
fact: drew is an above average qb WHEN he has a 100% solid line.
fact: we don't. see fact 1 now.
fact: after 13 years people know to just rush/pressure drew and he'll have problems more than the average qb would, so they do.
fact: when drew was brought in, NONE of this was a secret.
fact: see fact 1 and 2 now.

this isn't bashing people - that's talking about mother and being juvenile derogatory NONE OF WHICH most of us "anti-drew/bp" crowd has been. we've gotten juvenile junk in return, sure. we get nors 1 liners praising drew yet never addressing the point in question. we get called "anti-cowboy fans" though i'm pretty sure i own more jerseys than the average person and would rank in the top 10 of this board if we counted 'em all up. (9 at last count) and i've been a fan since we kicked denvers arse in the superbowl back in what, 77, 78?

bp isn't the godsend everyone calls him and he's not the end-all-be-all of how it should be done or he'd NOT:

1. get a qb that needs ultra-protection.
2. not give him that.
3. what he does build is arguably the worst line we've had here in quite awhile.

see fact 1 above - HE BUILT IT.

if you hate the line go yell at the person who put it together, not the people who notice and call him on it. if you're mad cause your boy drew doesn't have adequate protection to hush all us doubters, go yell at bp, not us.

after 3 years, this *is* bp's team. in the end it was very inconsistant, lacked heart (see last game) and while it may be better than 3 5-11 seasons, it's still not playoff caliber even though "NEXT YEAR!" is the same mantra we laugh at the skins for saying, it's adopted heavily here and the homers never realize who they laugh at is in the end themselves.

so zax, i agree. bp built this line. if it sucks, see bp - not us who notice.

if some want to delude themselves that "we can fix this!" and then look to the same man who put us here to get us out - that's just funny to me. it can be fixed - I DO AGREE ON THAT 100%.

but you have to want to fix it. to do that you have to committ and not just after a nice solid pout session at the end of every year.

grow up bill. either give us the bill parcells we've seen long long ago on a team far far away, or just give us our franchice back and go.

 

[Doomsday101]

I posted this in another thread but it is so good it deserves its own


Look do you believe BP knows what he is doing if so read further if not than no need to read further...

Last year the starting RT was Torrin Tucker regardless of the injury to Rogers... Pettiti beat out Tucker for the spot before Flo went down so we upgraded the RT and that is the Gospel according to Parcells...Amen

last year our starting right guard was Gurode...He was so bad we spent 9 million to fix it and according to the player himself he is 100% healthy plus we have Gurode sitting on the bench so we upgraded the RG and that is the Gospel according to Parcells...Amen

last year our starting Center was Al Johnson he was so good last year that we felt that we need not upgrade the position and only brought a token challenge from Gurode in training camp...another year for a young player under Parcells tuteledge is a slight upgrade but still we upgraded the C that is the Gospel according to Parcells...Amen

last year our starting left guard was Allen who has while not reached his form of old has gotten better each year under Parcells...Heck he is so good Peterson can't even sniff the field...again a slight upgrade but still we upgraded the RG that is the Gospel according to Parcells...Amen

last year our starting left tackle was Flozell Adams but Flo was having a horrible year last year but he still managed to defend off all new comers in training camp and retained his starting position but fell to injury after a rather auspicious start to the season in steps Torrin Tucker who is way better on the left side than he was on the right side last year and that is the Gospel according to Parcells....Amen

so there you have it an improved oline in 4 of the 5 positions and a much improved player in the 5th and final position...heck what more can you ask for

do not be mad at me for trying to show the people the truth of what is happening...

you fine folk can disagree all you wish but if you read this far I will assume that you believe that Parcells knows what he is doing... so please keep your emotions and your feely things to yourself and just use logic and understand that Parcells had a better offensive line this year than last...After all he built it...

Keep our emotions to ourselfs and buy into your flawed logic. Yes sir anything else we should do per your commandment? The line played like **** and anyone who watched the games damn well knows it you can place the blame on Bledsoe and Parcells all you want but it does not change the fact that defenses were spending a hell of a lot of time in the Cowboys backfield.

 

[iceberg]

Keep our emotions to ourselfs and buy into your flawed logic. Yes sir anything else we should do per your commandment? The line played like **** and anyone who watched the games damn well knows it you can place the blame on Bledsoe and Parcells all you want but it does not change the fact that defenses were spending a hell of a lot of time in the Cowboys backfield.

and they got there past the line BP built.

who else can we blame, i'll be glad to add them to the list.

 

[Zman5]

fact: parcells built this line. he's had 3 years and this line now belongs to him 100%.
fact: it sucks.
fact: drew is an above average qb WHEN he has a 100% solid line.
fact: we don't. see fact 1 now.
fact: after 13 years people know to just rush/pressure drew and he'll have problems more than the average qb would, so they do.
fact: when drew was brought in, NONE of this was a secret.
fact: see fact 1 and 2 now.

this isn't bashing people - that's talking about mother and being juvenile derogatory NONE OF WHICH most of us "anti-drew/bp" crowd has been. we've gotten juvenile junk in return, sure. we get nors 1 liners praising drew yet never addressing the point in question. we get called "anti-cowboy fans" though i'm pretty sure i own more jerseys than the average person and would rank in the top 10 of this board if we counted 'em all up. (9 at last count) and i've been a fan since we kicked denvers arse in the superbowl back in what, 77, 78?

bp isn't the godsend everyone calls him and he's not the end-all-be-all of how it should be done or he'd NOT:

1. get a qb that needs ultra-protection.
2. not give him that.
3. what he does build is arguably the worst line we've had here in quite awhile.

see fact 1 above - HE BUILT IT.

if you hate the line go yell at the person who put it together, not the people who notice and call him on it. if you're mad cause your boy drew doesn't have adequate protection to hush all us doubters, go yell at bp, not us.

after 3 years, this *is* bp's team. in the end it was very inconsistant, lacked heart (see last game) and while it may be better than 3 5-11 seasons, it's still not playoff caliber even though "NEXT YEAR!" is the same mantra we laugh at the skins for saying, it's adopted heavily here and the homers never realize who they laugh at is in the end themselves.

so zax, i agree. bp built this line. if it sucks, see bp - not us who notice.

if some want to delude themselves that "we can fix this!" and then look to the same man who put us here to get us out - that's just funny to me. it can be fixed - I DO AGREE ON THAT 100%.

but you have to want to fix it. to do that you have to committ and not just after a nice solid pout session at the end of every year.

grow up bill. either give us the bill parcells we've seen long long ago on a team far far away, or just give us our franchice back and go.

Is that a fact?

Seriously, I've posted few time that I can't believe BP went into the season with only 3 OTs and 2 of them being a 6th round rookie and and 2nd year UFA who had struggled enough to lose his job to the 6th round rookie.

That's just insane.

 

[Eddie]

Jerry, I'm with you on the Drew Bledsoe issue. I'd rather just bite the bullet than to patch up this team and go 9-7 and 8-8 for the next 10 years with rehashed QB's.

We should have taken care of this QB issue back in 1999. We've had 5 years since then to do something about it ... I don't think QC, Hutch, VT, Leaf, Romo, Henson, Bledsoe are anything near "doing something about it". They were nothing more than throwing dirt on a wound to stop the bleeding. It stopped the bleeding for the moment, but now, the wound's festering and getting bigger.

Looks like we're just going to re-apply more dirt on the wound and hope it gets better.

I'm at a loss.

Who can we get at #18?

Is Patrick Rampsey available? I assume he's going to get cut from the Skins soon.

 

[Doomsday101]

and they got there past the line BP built.

who else can we blame, i'll be glad to add them to the list.

Your right Bill has to take responsibility since he is the one who went with those players and they failed to live up to expectations. Rivera did not have much of a season and once we lost Flo, Tucker once again showed his true colors. Pettite I'm willing to give some what of a pass because he is a rookie.

 

[Zaxor]

Keep our emotions to ourselfs and buy into your flawed logic. Yes sir anything else we should do per your commandment? The line played like **** and anyone who watched the games damn well knows it you can place the blame on Bledsoe and Parcells all you want but it does not change the fact that defenses were spending a hell of a lot of time in the Cowboys backfield.

so who is to blame Dooms... am I too blame! are all 10 offensive lineman at blame! just tell me who is to blame for putting this line together Dooms and we will let them have it with both barrels...

 

[iceberg]

Your right Bill has to take responsibility since he is the one who went with those players and they failed to live up to expectations. Rivera did not have much of a season and once we lost Flo, Tucker once again showed his true colors. Pettite I'm willing to give some what of a pass because he is a rookie.

i wish people would get off petitti's nads. he's a 6th round pick on a horrible line of people who just didn't give a damn. yes he was overwhelmed (or maybe just whelmed, is that possible?) but like you say. rookie.

we can't play a young qb, but we can damn sure protect one that must have it with a rookie. parcells logic at work.

 

[Eddie]

Anyone know what's the deal with Marc Colombo???

Petitti shouldn't have been out there. He should have been backing up Jacob Rogers.

We put too much trust in Rogers and got bit in the butt for it.

The Rogers-Peterman picks are really haunting us.

 

[superpunk]

and they got there past the line BP built.

who else can we blame, i'll be glad to add them to the list.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. BP built this line, or believed that it was good enough to get the job done. And, when fully healthy, it was. But, it was soooo foolish to have a complete lack of depth there, with the guy who couldn't beat out the 6th round rookie backing up both tackle spots.

 

[joseephuss]

Your right Bill has to take responsibility since he is the one who went with those players and they failed to live up to expectations. Rivera did not have much of a season and once we lost Flo, Tucker once again showed his true colors. Pettite I'm willing to give some what of a pass because he is a rookie.

I agree with you on Petitti. He is only a rookie and looked worn down at the end of the year. On paper, it appeared that the offensive line would be better this year. At the beginning it was better. It was not a dominating line, but it produced some good things. Losing Adams really limited the line. They now had to protect two young tackles. Rivier did not live up to expectations. Either the back injury really hampered him or he was over rated. Al Johnson did not appear to play as well as last year. Maybe he isn't bad, but there has to be some reason why Gurode was getting some playing time at center. By the end of the season, the line was clearly not playing that well and was inconsistent.

 

[iceberg]

Is that a fact?

Seriously, I've posted few time that I can't believe BP went into the season with only 3 OTs and 2 of them being a 6th round rookie and and 2nd year UFA who had struggled enough to lose his job to the 6th round rookie.

That's just insane.

which is all part of the "parcells logic" i just DO NOT buy into regardless of where his candy arse may end up when it's all over.

you don't make a superbowl run with 2 unproven qb's you won't give a snap.
you don't "build" a team with 3 qb's in 3 years cause you "don't have time to groom" (where could we be IF (yes, i hate if but lemme play for a bit here!) parcells got a young guy when he got here and DID groom him for 3 years now?

growth period over wouldn't it be? now it's still loading up the shotgun for a ONE SHOT KILLS ALL approach that's yet to work or show strong signs of life.

you don't waste 3 games now that were useless overall and NOT GIVE A GUY EXPERIENCE.

parcells logic really is void of logical moves. if noticing that makes me a basher then what am i for noticing he sounds as lost as grandpa simpson in most of his PCs?

let's move on. nice idea, worth the effort to try BP, but he's not getting it done. so we're better than when he got here, but when he got here that team went to the playoffs.

overachieved.

'eh, ok. what else did he do?

he built up a hell of a defense!!!

we were #1 and then he made all these changes to drop us...

"but that was smoke and mirrors, we weren't as good as that"

didn't bp say "you are what you are?"

you can't apply bp logic to bp that's not fair!!!

we're running in circles and some just don't wanna see it, so those that do and say so are bashers.

go figure.

 

[iceberg]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. BP built this line, or believed that it was good enough to get the job done. And, when fully healthy, it was. But, it was soooo foolish to have a complete lack of depth there, with the guy who couldn't beat out the 6th round rookie backing up both tackle spots.

then it was BP being foolish and then overall the line couldn't have been that good or losing ONE PERSON on it wouldn't make it collapse.

it's also foolish to have a total lack of proven depth, or at least experience, at qb. now i really don't know the answer here, but did ANY OTHER cowboys coach ever have an aging vet backed up by 2 players with between them 1/2 a game experience? seems he had a lack of depth at qb also.

ain't smart, i don't care what your rep is.

 

[Zaxor]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. BP built this line, or believed that it was good enough to get the job done. And, when fully healthy, it was. But, it was soooo foolish to have a complete lack of depth there, with the guy who couldn't beat out the 6th round rookie backing up both tackle spots.

be careful friend soon we may be drawing you over to the darkside

 

[iceberg]

I agree with you on Petitti. He is only a rookie and looked worn down at the end of the year. On paper, it appeared that the offensive line would be better this year. At the beginning it was better. It was not a dominating line, but it produced some good things. Losing Adams really limited the line. They now had to protect two young tackles. Rivier did not live up to expectations. Either the back injury really hampered him or he was over rated. Al Johnson did not appear to play as well as last year. Maybe he isn't bad, but there has to be some reason why Gurode was getting some playing time at center. By the end of the season, the line was clearly not playing that well and was inconsistent.

losing adams hurt.

people, there was a time not long ago if we heard flo was out for the year we'd praise the 5 yard penalty gods in relief. now he's our anchor and "must have" player?

did he really get that good or did everyone else around him fall? i think he's solid, servicable, and good at what he does, but he's not "anchor" material and never has been. well, till some excuses were needed.

 

[Zaxor]

then it was BP being foolish and then overall the line couldn't have been that good or losing ONE PERSON on it wouldn't make it collapse.

it's also foolish to have a total lack of proven depth, or at least experience, at qb. now i really don't know the answer here, but did ANY OTHER cowboys coach ever have an aging vet backed up by 2 players with between them 1/2 a game experience? seems he had a lack of depth at qb also.

ain't smart, i don't care what your rep is.

we had Q and Hutch but I think Stoerner had some game time after that I would think no

 

[iceberg]

be careful friend soon we may be drawing you over to the darkside

darkside is calling now nothing is real
bill'll never know just how i feel
out from the past he now haunts our team
makes me so crazy make me post so mean

iceberg and the cruisers...