stilltheguru
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I dont get the hype with Henderson at all. I hear Marcus Peters comparisons but where are the Marcus Petersons turnovers? He just has the Marcus Peters tackling effort.lol
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Beware's 2020 draft thread
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beware_d-ware
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Finally got around to some Madibuike gifs.
He's a pretty good penetrator with great agility.
... but I know y'all are sick of seeing penetrating 3 techs who can't play the run, so I'm going to show a couple more gifs highlighting his power.
If you've got a few minutes, watch his film. He's stays really active and disruptive throughout the game.
Madibuike has easily the best combo of quickness and power I've seen out of any DT outside the top 2. Word is that he's lazy and the coaches at A&M weren't happy with him, but I'd take a gamble on him in the 2nd. Hey, Chris Jones was a lazy and inconsistent player at Missisippi State too. I hate players with effort issues, but it doesn't make them a lead-pipe lock to fail either, and I think that Madibuike has 1st round type talent at a position that we need.
He's a pretty good penetrator with great agility.
... but I know y'all are sick of seeing penetrating 3 techs who can't play the run, so I'm going to show a couple more gifs highlighting his power.
If you've got a few minutes, watch his film. He's stays really active and disruptive throughout the game.
Madibuike has easily the best combo of quickness and power I've seen out of any DT outside the top 2. Word is that he's lazy and the coaches at A&M weren't happy with him, but I'd take a gamble on him in the 2nd. Hey, Chris Jones was a lazy and inconsistent player at Missisippi State too. I hate players with effort issues, but it doesn't make them a lead-pipe lock to fail either, and I think that Madibuike has 1st round type talent at a position that we need.
beware_d-ware
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Some more writeups on some Day 2 DTs I watched.
Raekwon Davis
Huge (6'7 317 I believe?) and strong, and he moves well for his size. There's some DeForest Buckner/Arik Armstead to him. Run defense is outstanding. He knows how to lock out his arms and control linemen. If you were running an old-school 3-4, he is just about the perfect two-gapping 5 tech.
But in a league that throws 2/3rds of the time, the question is how good of a pass rusher he's going to be. He doesn't seem that explosive. The virtually identically-sized Javon Kinlaw will sometimes just forklift linemen off their feet with speed, length and power, but Davis doesn't really blow guys up like that, he's more of a stack-and-shed guy.
So he's sort of a square peg in a modern NFL defense. Not fast enough to edge rush, not as explosive as you'd like as an interior gap shooter, maybe he can play some nose but you'd like your NT to be a little lower to the ground than 6'7". Wherever he lines up, he is primarily a run defender.
The major problem with him though IMO is his head. His play has regressed for three straight years at Bama - there was future top-5 pick hype with him after his sophomore year, he probably would have went late first if he declared as a junior last year, and he's a Day 2 guy this year. Bama usually coaches the hell out of their players and most of their early round guys come into the pros with military-grade technique, but Davis doesn't have that. The only conclusion I can draw is that he doesn't take coaching, because good technique has just been such a constant with Bama players and you know he's been receiving their attention with 3 years as a star player.
There's also the slew of off field problems with him. He shot himself at a bar. He punched an offensive lineman during a game while the linemen was face-down on the ground (cheap shots). He was academically ineligible as a freshman. He got caught with weed. Any one of those wouldn't be a big deal, but together it paints a picture of a guy who doesn't make the smartest decisions and really doesn't give a s**t.
Laziness and off-field issues make him pretty close to DND for me. He's probably a second-round prospect because of his physical upside and 3 years of production, but I don't think he is going to get better after a steady college regression and he just looks like a problem waiting to happen.
Neville Gallimore
Another huge and freaky-athletic tackle. Bruce Feldman put him at #2 on his always-entertaining Freaks List, with Oklahoma claiming he can squat 800 and runs a 4.7 40 at 305. He also had the highest pass rush win rate of any DT in the Big 12 per PFF.
His lower body is just like a block, and he is FAST for his size. Not necessarily quick-twitch explosive, but you rarely see guys with NT size chase down plays and stunt as well as he does. He plays hard and you regularly see him getting in on plays downfield that he should have no business in.
Gallimore's technique is really raw through, as he has a habit of playing standing up and doesn't really have any moves. For a guy who squats 800, down-blocks sure wash him out easily, because he plays with no leverage. That can be coached, but the more worrying part to me is that he's almost too rocked-up and not very flexible. You don't see him get skinny and slip through gaps.
Despite his size, he looks like a 3 tech to me. 1T potential is there with his build and strength, but he's going to take some work first. Likewise, 3T isn't a sure bet either because he's not actually that good of a penetrator - he's the type that wants to go through you rather than by you.
The raw tools are freaky, and given how hard he plays, I think he'll keep working to fix his technical flaws. So there's a ton of upside with him, but also a lot of risk, and I don't think he's going to be a guy who's ready for a big role in year 1 either.
He's probably a 2nd round talent and a real ceiling-or-floor kind of pick, but I'm willing to bet on him for the same reason I'm not willing to bet on Davis.
Raekwon Davis
Huge (6'7 317 I believe?) and strong, and he moves well for his size. There's some DeForest Buckner/Arik Armstead to him. Run defense is outstanding. He knows how to lock out his arms and control linemen. If you were running an old-school 3-4, he is just about the perfect two-gapping 5 tech.
But in a league that throws 2/3rds of the time, the question is how good of a pass rusher he's going to be. He doesn't seem that explosive. The virtually identically-sized Javon Kinlaw will sometimes just forklift linemen off their feet with speed, length and power, but Davis doesn't really blow guys up like that, he's more of a stack-and-shed guy.
So he's sort of a square peg in a modern NFL defense. Not fast enough to edge rush, not as explosive as you'd like as an interior gap shooter, maybe he can play some nose but you'd like your NT to be a little lower to the ground than 6'7". Wherever he lines up, he is primarily a run defender.
The major problem with him though IMO is his head. His play has regressed for three straight years at Bama - there was future top-5 pick hype with him after his sophomore year, he probably would have went late first if he declared as a junior last year, and he's a Day 2 guy this year. Bama usually coaches the hell out of their players and most of their early round guys come into the pros with military-grade technique, but Davis doesn't have that. The only conclusion I can draw is that he doesn't take coaching, because good technique has just been such a constant with Bama players and you know he's been receiving their attention with 3 years as a star player.
There's also the slew of off field problems with him. He shot himself at a bar. He punched an offensive lineman during a game while the linemen was face-down on the ground (cheap shots). He was academically ineligible as a freshman. He got caught with weed. Any one of those wouldn't be a big deal, but together it paints a picture of a guy who doesn't make the smartest decisions and really doesn't give a s**t.
Laziness and off-field issues make him pretty close to DND for me. He's probably a second-round prospect because of his physical upside and 3 years of production, but I don't think he is going to get better after a steady college regression and he just looks like a problem waiting to happen.
Neville Gallimore
Another huge and freaky-athletic tackle. Bruce Feldman put him at #2 on his always-entertaining Freaks List, with Oklahoma claiming he can squat 800 and runs a 4.7 40 at 305. He also had the highest pass rush win rate of any DT in the Big 12 per PFF.
His lower body is just like a block, and he is FAST for his size. Not necessarily quick-twitch explosive, but you rarely see guys with NT size chase down plays and stunt as well as he does. He plays hard and you regularly see him getting in on plays downfield that he should have no business in.
Gallimore's technique is really raw through, as he has a habit of playing standing up and doesn't really have any moves. For a guy who squats 800, down-blocks sure wash him out easily, because he plays with no leverage. That can be coached, but the more worrying part to me is that he's almost too rocked-up and not very flexible. You don't see him get skinny and slip through gaps.
Despite his size, he looks like a 3 tech to me. 1T potential is there with his build and strength, but he's going to take some work first. Likewise, 3T isn't a sure bet either because he's not actually that good of a penetrator - he's the type that wants to go through you rather than by you.
The raw tools are freaky, and given how hard he plays, I think he'll keep working to fix his technical flaws. So there's a ton of upside with him, but also a lot of risk, and I don't think he's going to be a guy who's ready for a big role in year 1 either.
He's probably a 2nd round talent and a real ceiling-or-floor kind of pick, but I'm willing to bet on him for the same reason I'm not willing to bet on Davis.
CalPolyTechnique
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Gardner-Johnson (safety w/the Saints) is another good one.
Fastpitch Dad
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Best thread I've seen on here in awhile, I appreciate the effort you and put in it so far and look forward to seeing more.
I do not follow college as much as I used to so it's nice to have threads like this to see some prospects.
Very well done!
I do not follow college as much as I used to so it's nice to have threads like this to see some prospects.
Very well done!
beware_d-ware
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My post Combine mock draft, just to see who may be available for the Cowboys.
CIN - Joe Burrow
MIA - Trade up - Tua
DET - Chase Young
NYG - Isiah Simmons
WAS - Jeff Okudah
LAC - Justin Herbert
CAR - Tristan Wirfs
ARI - Mekhti Becton
JAC - Derrick Brown
CLE - Jedrick Willis
NYJ - Henry Ruggs
OAK - Jerry Jeudy
IND - Javon Kinlaw
TB - Andrew Thomas
DEN - CJ Henderson
ATL - K'Lavon Chaisson
... I think this is a pretty bad looking board for us.
Unless I'm missing a name, the only guy I see who stands out here from the pack is CeeDee Lamb. After that, there's a couple guys who I like but who carry similar types of grades - Fulton, Diggs, Delpit, McKinney, maybe even Winfield, you could probably talk me in to Kenneth Murray too. I'm not a Lamb guy and I don't think I'd want to keep him at #17.
So I'd dangle Lamb as trade bait and hope I could get some other team to come up with a 3rd for him. I'd even be willing to take a 4th to move down, because frankly in that spot, I'm just trying to bail.
Someone drafting a QB and pushing a guy down even one spot would help our cause, but I didn't mock any after Herbert right now. There's a lot of teams that need QBs, but there's also a lot of QBs on the market this year. I think that teams like say the Colts or the Buccaneers will probably end up with a new starter after FA rather than waiting for the draft and picking a guy like Jordan Love
CIN - Joe Burrow
MIA - Trade up - Tua
DET - Chase Young
NYG - Isiah Simmons
WAS - Jeff Okudah
LAC - Justin Herbert
CAR - Tristan Wirfs
ARI - Mekhti Becton
JAC - Derrick Brown
CLE - Jedrick Willis
NYJ - Henry Ruggs
OAK - Jerry Jeudy
IND - Javon Kinlaw
TB - Andrew Thomas
DEN - CJ Henderson
ATL - K'Lavon Chaisson
... I think this is a pretty bad looking board for us.
Unless I'm missing a name, the only guy I see who stands out here from the pack is CeeDee Lamb. After that, there's a couple guys who I like but who carry similar types of grades - Fulton, Diggs, Delpit, McKinney, maybe even Winfield, you could probably talk me in to Kenneth Murray too. I'm not a Lamb guy and I don't think I'd want to keep him at #17.
So I'd dangle Lamb as trade bait and hope I could get some other team to come up with a 3rd for him. I'd even be willing to take a 4th to move down, because frankly in that spot, I'm just trying to bail.
Someone drafting a QB and pushing a guy down even one spot would help our cause, but I didn't mock any after Herbert right now. There's a lot of teams that need QBs, but there's also a lot of QBs on the market this year. I think that teams like say the Colts or the Buccaneers will probably end up with a new starter after FA rather than waiting for the draft and picking a guy like Jordan Love
beware_d-ware
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Some quick hits on WRs:
Michael Pittman Jr: Really like him. Big, smooth route runner for his size, great hands, plays hard, 85th percentile NFL athlete. The only thing I can knock him on is that he seems like a one-gear kind of receiver where there's not much explosion to his game, everything is run at the same tempo. Otherwise, I see a guy with enough change of direction to win on short routes and the size/speed combo to run deep routes and climb the ladder on DBs for big plays. Really easy to see how he projects to outside WR in the pros. Normally I'd say he's a second round kind of player, but this class is so deep at WR that I don't know where he'll end up.
Denzel Mims: 95th percentile NFL athlete and looks like it. Tall, twitched-up, and fast as hell. His combo of a 4.38 40, 6.66 3 cone and 38" vertical is sick and absolutely translates onto the field. Starts gunning for YAC if you give him any space at all, and he usually gets a bunch. Can make catches with DBs hanging all over him. Great hands. Puts in effort as a blocker.
The only thing I am skeptical of him about is playing in the Big 12. The Oklahoma/LSU game showed just how well those offenses translate when you run them against a field full of NFL caliber defenders. But as far as Mims himself? I think he's a first rounder.
Devin Duvernay: I think it was @cnuball21 who said it perfectly earlier: you want your outside receivers to have size to go along with vertical speed; Duvernay doesn't have size, and you want your slot receivers to have the quickness to take advantage of a two-way go; Duvernay doesn't have that twitch. Texas fed him a lot of YAC plays, but the lack of agility screwed him there too, so he didn't juke anyone out so much as he tried to run straight through them. Duvernay is basically somewhere between a nine-route speed merchant and a power running back.
If you turn your head and squint, you can see some Golden Tate or Randall Cobb there, but his lack of a natural position fit makes him tough to project forward. If he was a slot-only receiver in college, I think he's a slot-only receiver in the pros, but he's a slot WR best used aggressively downfield, and that doesn't fit every offense. I think there's enough question about Duvernay to push him to day 3, and team fit will be crucial for him.
Michael Pittman Jr: Really like him. Big, smooth route runner for his size, great hands, plays hard, 85th percentile NFL athlete. The only thing I can knock him on is that he seems like a one-gear kind of receiver where there's not much explosion to his game, everything is run at the same tempo. Otherwise, I see a guy with enough change of direction to win on short routes and the size/speed combo to run deep routes and climb the ladder on DBs for big plays. Really easy to see how he projects to outside WR in the pros. Normally I'd say he's a second round kind of player, but this class is so deep at WR that I don't know where he'll end up.
Denzel Mims: 95th percentile NFL athlete and looks like it. Tall, twitched-up, and fast as hell. His combo of a 4.38 40, 6.66 3 cone and 38" vertical is sick and absolutely translates onto the field. Starts gunning for YAC if you give him any space at all, and he usually gets a bunch. Can make catches with DBs hanging all over him. Great hands. Puts in effort as a blocker.
The only thing I am skeptical of him about is playing in the Big 12. The Oklahoma/LSU game showed just how well those offenses translate when you run them against a field full of NFL caliber defenders. But as far as Mims himself? I think he's a first rounder.
Devin Duvernay: I think it was @cnuball21 who said it perfectly earlier: you want your outside receivers to have size to go along with vertical speed; Duvernay doesn't have size, and you want your slot receivers to have the quickness to take advantage of a two-way go; Duvernay doesn't have that twitch. Texas fed him a lot of YAC plays, but the lack of agility screwed him there too, so he didn't juke anyone out so much as he tried to run straight through them. Duvernay is basically somewhere between a nine-route speed merchant and a power running back.
If you turn your head and squint, you can see some Golden Tate or Randall Cobb there, but his lack of a natural position fit makes him tough to project forward. If he was a slot-only receiver in college, I think he's a slot-only receiver in the pros, but he's a slot WR best used aggressively downfield, and that doesn't fit every offense. I think there's enough question about Duvernay to push him to day 3, and team fit will be crucial for him.
cnuball21
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If Lamb is there you just draft him. He’s the best WR I’m the draft IMO and a top 6/7 talent in the class. Just pull the trigger.
DanA
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I think that's a reasonably likely outcome.
In this scenario, the Patriots, Jags or Saints might want to jump up to a position that secures Love but if they really like him I think they'd trade up higher than 17.
kskboys
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Only thing that worries me about Lamb is his skinny build.
stilltheguru
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Madibuike for me. If we go cb and its Henderson or Fulton I'll take Henderson in a landslide
cnuball21
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He’s got the frame to pack on an easy 10/15 IMO and play at 6’2 - 210.
tm1119
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What games did you watch of Henderson?
I’m up to 5 so far- (2018)Mich and LSU, (2019)Mizzu, Vandy, and Miami.
The only game I can see a person watching and complaining about Henderson’s tackling is Miami. And yes, he was very bad against Miami, but other than that I see 0 evidence of a CB who will hurt the team with tackling. What I also definitely didn’t see was WR’s catching the ball.
Side note: DE Greenard really shows on tape not even trying to watch him. Not sure what round he’s currently projected, but would love to get him if he’s available past the 2nd.
Future
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If Lamb is available I'm SPRINTING to submit the card.
I don't buy for one second that he would be the third WR off the board, but one of those 3 WRs should be there.
Proof
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Future
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darthseinfeld
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Not a fan of Henderson at 17 at all. I just dont see hin being a #1 CB in the NFL. It reminds me of when we looked at Kevin King in 2017. You get too excited about the athlete, and his ability as a football player doesnt measure up
KingintheNorth
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Finally got around to some Madibuike gifs.
He's a pretty good penetrator with great agility.
... but I know y'all are sick of seeing penetrating 3 techs who can't play the run, so I'm going to show a couple more gifs highlighting his power.
If you've got a few minutes, watch his film. He's stays really active and disruptive throughout the game.
Madibuike has easily the best combo of quickness and power I've seen out of any DT outside the top 2. Word is that he's lazy and the coaches at A&M weren't happy with him, but I'd take a gamble on him in the 2nd. Hey, Chris Jones was a lazy and inconsistent player at Missisippi State too. I hate players with effort issues, but it doesn't make them a lead-pipe lock to fail either, and I think that Madibuike has 1st round type talent at a position that we need.
There are moments when I watch Madibuike and the scouting phrase "bowling ball with knives" come to mind. He can be a terror.
Then you hear the effort concerns and you have Trysten Hill flashbacks. Which makes me wonder if we will draft a 3Tech high, despite the obvious need. The Jones-led Front Office has been very slow to admit mistakes.
KingintheNorth
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The Miami game might be an anomaly but that game does stand out. Maybe he was sick or going through something emotionally that week, but it was like watching a completely different payer. Let us know if you notice any other games he played poorly in. Every other game and at the Combine, he looks super smooth, fluid, and athletic. I'm growing on him at 17.
tm1119
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The Miami tape was the 1st thing I watched and it made me want to turn it off and give up on Henderson all together. But I just haven’t seen anywhere near that level of ineptitude in any of the other games I watched. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not claiming his tackling is a strong suit, but when you have a guy who is near elite in both size and athleticism you can be a little forgiving in some categories in my opinion. As long as the willingness is there (I think it is), he can be coached to bring guys down adequately. We don’t need a tackling machine at CB. Guys who are great in coverage and tackling are unicorns that go top 10.
He’s damn smooth in his movements and generally very sticky in coverage. Jefferson from LSU got some separation and a catch on him with a nice comeback route, but I didn’t see many catches in general against him in 5 games. And even tho his INT #’s aren’t impressive, I like his ball skills. He is able to find the ball and get his hands on it to break up passes that should be catches...something Cowboys CB’s (Chido) could really use a lesson in.