Bill Parcells Genius:: How Ellis Will Be Used In 3-4 Defense

[Mash]

I will laugh my *** off....when I see Ellis trying to cover a RB in the slot......or drop back in pass coverage.

 

[Alexander]

I will laugh my *** off....when I see Ellis trying to cover a RB in the slot......or drop back in pass coverage.

I strongly doubt that would be a regular part of his responsibilities. Give our coaches more credit than that.

 

[Chuck 54]

I will go on record in predicting that Greg Ellis will be a collosal failure as a LB. He's not the type of athletic DE that can easily stand up...he's average at best.

This is a ridiculous experiment that is doomed. Ellis will be back in the DE rotation before camp is two weeks old.

I think he plays DE with his hand on the ground as a pass rushing specialist, or he gets traded for a 3rd or 4th round draft pick. He's not worth more than that, imo. I don't see Greg Ellis as a starter this year...if he takes the change seriously (and that's a big if), he'll have to lose some weight...that weight loss will kill his ability to play DE except as a pass rush specialist. If he doesn't lose the weight, he'll be a huge failure at LB.

Personally, I've never seen near enough athleticism by Greg Ellis to even begin to think he can play OLB in the 3-4.

Something's rotten in Denmark.

 

[Alexander]

I will go on record in predicting that Greg Ellis will be a collosal failure as a LB. He's not the type of athletic DE that can easily stand up...he's average at best.

This is a ridiculous experiment that is doomed. Ellis will be back in the DE rotation before camp is two weeks old.

I think he plays DE with his hand on the ground as a pass rushing specialist, or he gets traded for a 3rd or 4th round draft pick. He's not worth more than that, imo. I don't see Greg Ellis as a starter this year...if he takes the change seriously (and that's a big if), he'll have to lose some weight...that weight loss will kill his ability to play DE except as a pass rush specialist. If he doesn't lose the weight, he'll be a huge failure at LB.

Personally, I've never seen near enough athleticism by Greg Ellis to even begin to think he can play OLB in the 3-4.

Something's rotten in Denmark.

So if our head coach disagrees with you, is he lying to Ellis and us or just an imbecile?

 

[Jarv]

I made a video today on the other forum I post on showing everyone of ellis sacks from last year. They are all but 1/2 of his 8 sacks from the 4-2-5 nickel. This is why I dont understand why the guy doesnt embrace it and be the best he can be at it..he got one sack out of the 3 man line and that was williams sack really.

if you want the vid here it is.
http://www.4shared.com/file/1934684/a96bba7f/ellis_sacks_2005.html

all of ellis sacks from last year

Thanks for the vid...I love this stuff !

 

[Vintage]

I strongly doubt that would be a regular part of his responsibilities. Give our coaches more credit than that.

Like not putting Newman on Moss at the end of the game...

Or after the first TD, not saying "Well, we gave up one and can't afford another, we better line up Newman on Moss."

 

[Jarv]

Like not putting Newman on Moss at the end of the game...

Or after the first TD, not saying "Well, we gave up one and can't afford another, we better line up Newman on Moss."

BP being stubborn is not always a good thing, is it.

 

[superpunk]

Brilliant work theebs, BTW.

 

[Chuck 54]

So if our head coach disagrees with you, is he lying to Ellis and us or just an imbecile?

I think he's playing Ellis....I think he's trying something to see how it works, but when it doesn't, Ellis will be relegated to pass rushing specialist, and the more he complains about it, the easier it will be to cut or trade a guy that has been a good citizen in Dallas.

Ellis is not an undersized DE who is a great athlete who excells at the speed rush and is a perfect candidate for 3-4 OLB...not even close. He's a decent all around DE who plays the run well and is a decent pass rusher for that type of player.

I'm not trying to pretend I know more than Parcells, but anyone who's been watching the Cowboys and Ellis for years has to be scratching his head at the idea that Ellis will be a better stand up OLB on either side of the line than just about any other LB on the roster.

If anything, maybe...maybe he'll be better against the run than our other OLB's. But that's taking a guy who is perhaps our best pass rusher with his hand on the ground and standing him up to be more stout against the run, which means he's still a part time player.

I think there's something fishy here, and I predict that Ellis will meet with great frustration trying to play on his feet, and he'll become more and more vocal about it.

Does anyone here see Ellis as the typically quick, speed rushing DE who doesn't hold up against the run, but is very athletic that most teams switch to OLB in the 3-4? Does anyone actually see Ellis getting more playing time at OLB this year than he did at DE last year? There's no way he can do both, imo.

 

[Alexander]

I think he's playing Ellis....I think he's trying something to see how it works, but when it doesn't, Ellis will be relegated to pass rushing specialist, and the more he complains about it, the easier it will be to cut or trade a guy that has been a good citizen in Dallas.

Oh yes. He jumped through flaming hoops and made up all kinds of red herrings with Dexter Coakley also just to fool the fanbase and save face.

I can honestly say that many of you have unresolved hate issues with Parcells and simply lose all sense of reasoning.

 

[wileedog]

Does anyone here see Ellis as the typically quick, speed rushing DE who doesn't hold up against the run, but is very athletic that most teams switch to OLB in the 3-4? Does anyone actually see Ellis getting more playing time at OLB this year than he did at DE last year? There's no way he can do both, imo.

Uh, no.

I think he will get 99% of his snaps in the 4-2-5 as a pass rushing DE.

The way Parcells made it sound is that they were going to try to create some packages where Ellis' hand is off the groundi, but I have yet to see anywhere that he is going to be an everyday 3-4 strongside LBer.

Isn't that what we just drafted Carpenter for?

 

[AbeBeta]

Based on that video, it looks to me that Ellis should have one demand -- be on the field whenever Ware is rushing the QB.

I think too much is made of Ellis playing OLB - I think what we might see (if Gregg is here) are some packages where guys are moving around to create matchup problems -- something like both Ellis and Ware standing up -- just a few wrinkles to give the O-line fits.

 

[Angus]

Assuming Ellis stays out of the OTAs, does that open up things for Hatcher?

 

[AtlCB]

Does anyone here see Ellis as the typically quick, speed rushing DE who doesn't hold up against the run, but is very athletic that most teams switch to OLB in the 3-4? Does anyone actually see Ellis getting more playing time at OLB this year than he did at DE last year? There's no way he can do both, imo.

Ellis has always been one of the better DE's against the run. I really do not see any problem with lining him up at OLB as long as he doesn't have any coverage responsibilities. Ellis is athletic enough to rush the passer and play the run from the OLB position, but not athletic enough to cover a TE or RB. Most of the time, Carpenter will be lined up at SOLB due to the fact that he can do all three of these tasks.

 

[ravidubey]

So if our head coach disagrees with you, is he lying to Ellis and us or just an imbecile?

If Ellis always rushes the passer in passing situations it gives the RT an advantage whenever Ellis lifts his hand and stands back a few feet.

Tryign to fool people using Ware and Carpenter as interchangeable down linemen seems to make more sense than using Ware and Greg Ellis. IMO with Ellis there's no deception at all-- he's going for the sack.

If Ellis has his hand up and a pass goes to his zone, Ayodele and the LCB and SS will have to compensate for Ellis' lack of range. It's not the same with Carpenter or Ware-- both can cover backs and TE's.

It will be more effective vs. the run since Ellis is stronger than Carpenter or Singleton would be from a standard set, but should opponents effectively sell the run and pass to Ellis' side Dallas is at a disadvantage.

Does enyone ever recall Campo or Zimmer dropping Ellis back as part of a zone blitz?

 

[juck]

great post.

 

[AtlCB]

If Ellis always rushes the passer in passing situations it gives the RT an advantage whenever Ellis lifts his hand and stands back a few feet.

Tryign to fool people using Ware and Carpenter as interchangeable down linemen seems to make more sense than using Ware and Greg Ellis. IMO with Ellis there's no deception at all-- he's going for the sack.

If Ellis has his hand up and a pass goes to his zone, Ayodele and the LCB and SS will have to compensate for Ellis' lack of range. It's not the same with Carpenter or Ware-- both can cover backs and TE's.

It will be more effective vs. the run since Ellis is stronger than Carpenter or Singleton would be from a standard set, but should opponents effectively sell the run and pass to Ellis' side Dallas is at a disadvantage.

Does enyone ever recall Campo or Zimmer dropping Ellis back as part of a zone blitz?

This statement is not necessarily true. If Ellis lifts his hand and stands back a few feet, he has the option of going inside or outside of the RT (just as he would if he was playing DE) or going between the RG and C. If the LDE and NT effectively make the RG and C account for them, it leaves the RT scrambling to move inside of the RG to provide a block on Ellis or leaves a TE or RB (which would be a serious mismatch) to block the blitzing Ellis.

 

[theebs]

Thanks for the vid...I love this stuff !

your welcome, I had some time yesterday and we were talking about ellis's sacks and how they broke down on c-f.com yesterday so I put the video together. Here was my post with the video

Ellis 8 sacks. only one out of the 3 man line. All but one from the 4-2-5 nickel defense, most in the fourth qtr. This shows that he has worth in the 4-2-5 nickel. Canty was not asked to rush the passer last year from that spot so you can not compare them.

Tim rattay San francisco---the line was 4 man- ellis-spears-Glover-ware
Eli Manning NYG- 4 man line-ellis-glover-fergy-ware
Josh Mcown-ariz- 4 man line-ellis-glover-spears-ware
Josh mcown-Ariz- 4 man line ellis-glover-ratliff-ware 1/2 sack
D.Mcnabb phi---4 man line Ellis-spears-glover-ware
Joey Harrington DET --4man line Ellis-spears-glover-ware
Jake Plummer Den- 4man line Ellis-canty-glover-ware
Drew Brees-SD-3man line Ellis-glover-canty 1/2 sack
Brunnel was- 4 man line- Ellis-glover-spears-ware 1/2 sack
Mcnabb phi- 4man line Ellis-ratliff-glover-ware 1/2 sack

here is the video
http://www.4shared.com/file/1934684/...acks_2005.html

by the way after doing this it makes me mad at ellis in a way. If all he has to do is rush the passer in the 4-2-5 nickel which is where all his success is then what is his problem. He is good at it, the cowboys like him to do it and he wants out? I dont get it. He should be embracing this, he could just concentrate on rushing the passer and help a good team.
__________________

 

[Alexander]

your welcome, I had some time yesterday and we were talking about ellis's sacks and how they broke down on c-f.com yesterday so I put the video together. Here was my post with the video

Ellis 8 sacks. only one out of the 3 man line. All but one from the 4-2-5 nickel defense, most in the fourth qtr. This shows that he has worth in the 4-2-5 nickel. Canty was not asked to rush the passer last year from that spot so you can not compare them.

Tim rattay San francisco---the line was 4 man- ellis-spears-Glover-ware
Eli Manning NYG- 4 man line-ellis-glover-fergy-ware
Josh Mcown-ariz- 4 man line-ellis-glover-spears-ware
Josh mcown-Ariz- 4 man line ellis-glover-ratliff-ware 1/2 sack
D.Mcnabb phi---4 man line Ellis-spears-glover-ware
Joey Harrington DET --4man line Ellis-spears-glover-ware
Jake Plummer Den- 4man line Ellis-canty-glover-ware
Drew Brees-SD-3man line Ellis-glover-canty 1/2 sack
Brunnel was- 4 man line- Ellis-glover-spears-ware 1/2 sack
Mcnabb phi- 4man line Ellis-ratliff-glover-ware 1/2 sack

here is the video
http://www.4shared.com/file/1934684/...acks_2005.html

by the way after doing this it makes me mad at ellis in a way. If all he has to do is rush the passer in the 4-2-5 nickel which is where all his success is then what is his problem. He is good at it, the cowboys like him to do it and he wants out? I dont get it. He should be embracing this, he could just concentrate on rushing the passer and help a good team.
__________________

Impressive, Theebs. Thank you.

The first bolded statement pretty much destroys the Ellis > Canty because of more sacks argument. The two didn't have the same opportunities.

The last bolded statement should be something every Cowboy fan should be asking themselves.

 

[L-O-Jete]

I agree, Ellis should be happy all he has to do is pin back his ears and go get the QB 20-25 times per game and make a carrer of it for the next 7 years getting double digit sacks.