Bill Parcells on Mike & Mike... Cancelled

[Bob Sacamano]

How in the world does mike holmgren, jon gruden, andy reid, bill cowher, tom coughlin, bill belichick, jeff fisher and mike nolan get 53 guys to listen to them?

the same way Bill Parcells had all 53 guys listen to him

Bill's "out of touch" is being overblown IMO

 

[theebs]

So now Owens isn't a hard worker, not a team player, and has character issues.

He wasnt in the spring and summer of 06 and when he was sold to the guy in charge as exactly that, you will have problems.

It lingered into the season. Where he did work hard but kept the drama angle up and the football angle down.

Nice try at cornering the subject into something else.

If you have a case that owens was a hard worker in the spring and summer of 06 please share. I dont remember him attending one workout or participating in anything more than the one madatory mini in may.

oh and in another thread I made a statement that carson palmer is more talented than mcnabb or romo, please feel free to go twist that into I think romo sucks also. its the same logic.

 

[khiladi]

Let the Parcells love continue, because they spent many years defending him blindly to the point it was worship. It is all about the ego. They now know that Dallas is much better than when Parcells was here. Imagine if Dallas didn't go 13-3 this year with Wade? He couldn't win while he was here, so they gotta give him credit when he is gone... When Dallas wins a play-off game, all credit will belong to Parcells...

I'm glad that garbage coaching staff is gone this year...

 

[Hostile]

First off, you have to put a meaning to out of touch. Does it mean that in touch coaches have to let their players run around and do what they want all year?

Parcells first and best quality is his discipline and how he implements that on a team. It starts with weight training in the offseason and then into mini and training camps.

Owens didnt exactly go out of his way to take part in that in 06. THen he made a mockery of being out of practice by wearing that armstrong jersey and goofing around on the bike. Parcells was in charge then and owens flaunted his ability to do what he wants. How would parcells or any coach of that ilk embrace that attitude. I certainly wouldnt, it would make me insanse if I was trying to get 80 guys to bust their humps twice a day and set an example for younger players and then have Elvis in the corner goofing off.

Owens was sold to parcells as the hardest working guy on the team who had issues with money, not hard work and football work. then he proceeded to not comply with that basically the whole spring and summer.

Bill Parcells was the head coach in 2006 and the man in charge. Everybody around the league knows exactly who parcells is and how he operates. Even a guy like marcellus wiley who didnt like parcells worked hard for him and respected him because his way works. Terrell Owens did not have to sign a contract with the Dallas Cowboys if he didnt want to. He did in 2006, a year where Bill Parcells was in charge.

For owens to out of the blue in june of 08 take a pot shot at owens is pretty low rent. As I said in another post all he needs to do is go a few lockers over and ask jay ratliff, t-new, romo, chris canty etc. how in touch he is.

Anyone who has ever worked for or played a sport for a guy who's whole ideal is built on Discipline and hard work knows you can not flaunt the I am bigger attitude in their face and expect a good relationship.

Hell, look at keith davis. He was cut and brought back and got into more trouble and was still kept because he worked his tail off, he did little things and he put the team first not to mention he was always their to workout and practice and he always played at the same intensity level. He is in miami for that reason now. Think Keith Davis thinks parcells is out of touch?

Its a foolish comment at an unneccessary time from a guy who has no right to say it. Its in owens best intrests to never bring parcells up and take shots at him. Its something arrogant ricks with a P who are cowtow'd to instead of being treated like everyone else would say, people like deion sanders for instance.

When someone else who has the respect of everyone says this about parcells maybe it will hold weight until then it is just a talking point people like jaimie dukes, T.Owens, D. sanders use. Its foolish, unneccessary and untrue.

Good post.

First of all out of touch probably means something very different to you than it would to me. Inaccesable to his players is an example to me. Players having to beg him to take the leash off is an example to me.

The guy is a great friggin' coach. I won't deny that. I said before I was as thrilled as anyone in the world when we got him. But I'm not going to sit still and turn a blind eye to the act.

"The eggshells are all gone." That's a myth huh?

He's a complicated guy who is a Hall of Famer and probably the best talent evaluator I have ever seen. I appreciate his contributions to the team as much as you or anyone else.

I just don't have any qualms about saying it wasn't good enough. To me that is obvious. It just wasn't good enough.

I don't even much care for Terrell Owens and I've made no bones about that. Calling him "the player" and refusing to have any answers about his condition after the overdose thing was just petty. There's no need to act like a petulant child.

That to me is out of touch.

I'd have welcomed him back and I am glad he is gone. It's a paradox I know, but I'm honest.

 

[khiladi]

He wasnt in the spring and summer of 06 and when he was sold to the guy in charge as exactly that, you will have problems.

It lingered into the season. Where he did work hard but kept the drama angle up and the football angle down.

Nice try at cornering the subject into something else.

If you have a case that owens was a hard worker in the spring and summer of 06 please share. I dont remember him attending one workout or participating in anything more than the one madatory mini in may.

Because of his hamstring issue...

Owens has never been accused of not being a hard-worker. The fact that he is known for his brutal work-outs and being health conscious is testimony to the fact that hard work is never an issue with him. Hell, he played on one leg in the Super Bowl and the Patriots were stepping on it, every time they tackled him...

 

[khiladi]

Hell, look at keith davis. He was cut and brought back and got into more trouble and was still kept because he worked his tail off, he did little things and he put the team first not to mention he was always their to workout and practice and he always played at the same intensity level. He is in miami for that reason now. Think Keith Davis thinks parcells is out of touch?

There are countless players that work hard, but suck and are cut all the time. Parcells has cut plenty of hard-working individuals in his career. They also put the team first when they practice.

Keith Davis is in Miami because he was only going to get an oppurtunity to play there as SS and make good money. Keith Davis thinks Parcells is in-touch because Parcells likes him and is giving him an oppurtunity.

 

[Hostile]

I didn't ask for any motive. I asked if you minded identifying with Owens - whose position is diametrically opposed to Romo's and Newman's - real team guys, hard workers, no character questions ever.

You don't mind identifying with Owens position at all, apparently.

That's fine. No cop-out was necessary after I came to that conclusion the first time.

Ooooooooooookay.

 

[Kilyin]

He wasnt in the spring and summer of 06 and when he was sold to the guy in charge as exactly that, you will have problems.

It lingered into the season. Where he did work hard but kept the drama angle up and the football angle down.

Nice try at cornering the subject into something else.

If you have a case that owens was a hard worker in the spring and summer of 06 please share. I dont remember him attending one workout or participating in anything more than the one madatory mini in may.

oh and in another thread I made a statement that carson palmer is more talented than mcnabb or romo, please feel free to go twist that into I think romo sucks also. its the same logic.

I wasn't even talking to you. Superpunk said Owens was diametrically opposite of Newman and Romo who are hard workers, team players, high character guys. There is nothing to twist, that statement right there is a direct implication that Owens doesn't work hard, has character issues, and isn't a team player.

And I really don't care what Owens does in minicamps or OTAs. To be in the physical condition that this guy is at his age, you HAVE to be a hard worker. He's probably one of the hardest workers in the NFL. I'd hate to imagine how much time he spends in the weight room while Romo and Newman are playing golf.

 

[Xy_Oldone]

No, I don't. I used Owens because he did.

I still think he is a great coach. I just think he was playing games within the game here and it tripped him up. I think he took the Miami job to be in total power so he can directly show Jerry "what might have been."

I just don't care for that.

I disagree with this somewhat. I think Parcells wanted to be a GM all along. And when one opened with NY he went for it. Did not get it. So I think he took the Miami job for two reasons. One that is what he wanted all along. And Two to show New York what might have been.

I think he is a great coach and very very knowlegeable. I think he is a great game planner. And I know everyone will disagree. But I do think he has lost touch with the players today. And most players will not respond to his methods. Some will though.

 

[theebs]

Because of his hamstring issue...

Owens has never been accused of not being a hard-worker. The fact that he is known for his brutal work-outs and being health conscious is testimony to the fact that hard work is never an issue with him. Hell, he played on one leg in the Super Bowl and the Patriots were stepping on it, every time they tackled him...

Please tell me how hard he worked with his teammates in the spring and summer of 06. Good luck cause he didnt lift one day with them and only came to one camp.

THat is where the problems started. you dont do that to a coach who just agreed to take a chance on you. Showing up and busting his hump with his teammates from day one in the offseason would have endeared him to parcells and would have shut the media up.

He didnt, he was showing up at celebrity basketball games and nba games in the stands in other cities while his teammates were in irving lifting weights and studying. Make of that what you want. Whats good for the goose.

Once it was flaunted in parcells face in the spring how he was above the team because he had personal issues it was going to be hard to fix that relationship I believe. Had owens showed up and then went out of his way to work on the playbook and integrating himself into the locker there still was a chance, but instead owens flew by himself to los angeles ahead of the team and greeted them at the airport like some sort of celebrity. IT was bizarre.

Now he has two strikes against him and then he is injured immediately in camp and makes a joke out of riding the bike on the sideline. At this point the relationship is probably lost to parcells because he is intentionally making a mockery of the discipline everyone else has to abide by.

Then throw in his nonsense with a couple of penaltys for celebrating and the drops and it adds up to a guy who seemingly was trying to test the discipline from within the building as opposed to working his tail off inside that realm of discipline.

Why would parcells reach out to such a person? Parcells name was attached to everything that went on. He was ultimately responsible. How does he do his job with the highest profile player he has flaunting his lack of respect in his face at every turn? Why do you think parcells soured on him so fast? Its obvious.

but just like the people who have started with the newman is not as good as pacman mantra some will never get it because they see superstars as the ones responsible for winning. Superstars above everything and everyone.

Owens is as happy as can be now because the discipline now lies in the players instead of the coaches. The coaches here now or more apt to get walked on and dictated to than to enforce discipline. Its working because of the years of discipline and the type of players we have. Its a machine that is well oiled and running smoothly. THat hard period is over. Its a good thing we have such high quality people with a team first attitude on this roster. It can be gone in a flash like in the 90s.

and again, there is no reason for owens to be taking pot shots at parcells in may of 2008, none. Nor would their be a reason for parcells to be taking pot shots at owens in may of 2008.

 

[superpunk]

I wasn't even talking to you. Superpunk said Owens was diametrically opposite of Newman and Romo who are hard workers, team players, high character guys. There is nothing to twist, that statement right there is a direct implication that Owens doesn't work hard, has character issues, and isn't a team player.

If there's nothing to twist, then why did you?

I didn't say anything like what you think I said - I'm sorry that you misinterpreted it.

I have nothing bad to say about Owens as a Cowboy. But when it comes to his opinion on his coaches, I think I'm more than justified in taking what he says with one huge grain of salt, while giving more credence to the opinion of guys who have never had any problems getting along with coaches or teammates, never been problems.

 

[Kilyin]

If there's nothing to twist, then why did you?

I didn't say anything like what you think I said - I'm sorry that you misinterpreted it.

I asked if you minded identifying with Owens - whose position is diametrically opposed to Romo's and Newman's - real team guys, hard workers, no character questions ever.

... k?

I'm not sure what you intended people to take away from that piece of dialog, but it seemed pretty clear cut to me. If I 'misinterpreted', my apologies for understanding English.

 

[superpunk]

... k?

His position on Parcells is the complete opposite of Romo and Newman's. It's not that hard to understand. Or maybe it is.

 

[khiladi]

Why would parcells reach out to such a person? Parcells name was attached to everything that went on. He was ultimately responsible. How does he do his job with the highest profile player he has flaunting his lack of respect in his face at every turn? Why do you think parcells soured on him so fast? Its obvious.

Rather nice dramatic story you painted of the sacrifices of Bill Parcells... Yet, here we have Jason Taylor being treated in a similar manner of Owens... DO you see the pattern here as far as it concerns Parcells? Since when has JT ever been accused of not working hard and where is that reputation of being selfish? Parcells hasn't endeared himself to well to a guy that has had a squeaky clean image not only on-the-field but off-the-field as well... BTW, how do explain the fact that TO played all of 2006 with a torn tendon in his hand that required surgery? DId he play the whole season and put off surgery until March of 2007? Is that selfish? Parcells didn't take that into consideration?

I love how Parcells ups and runs from teams himself... That is the mark of a pretty classy guy. How many times has he repeated his chance of being done with football, yet to return? That sure is a man of his word.

Owens is as happy as can be now because the discipline now lies in the players instead of the coaches. The coaches here now or more apt to get walked on and dictated to than to enforce discipline. Its working because of the years of discipline and the type of players we have. Its a machine that is well oiled and running smoothly. THat hard period is over. Its a good thing we have such high quality people with a team first attitude on this roster. It can be gone in a flash like in the 90s.

ANd yet, what happened to the Dallas offense when TO went down? You know that 'me-first' guy and not team first. No, Owens is happy now because the coaches are using him as he is supposed to be used. That is what a coach is suppose to do, because that is ultimately what the game is about, the players on the field. It is working because Wade is a damn good coach and implemented a totally different philosophy that suits the players talents. Even Ware was excited and gloating about what this defense was going to bring, prior to last year even starting. Hell, even Jason Ferguson, the man that just went to Miami to play under Parcells quipped about Parcells philosophy holding them back.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Wait a minute.

You told us a couple of days ago that Carpenter was this underrated player who hasn't gotten a fair shake and was the "best player on the field" in the playoff game at Seattle two years ago.

Now, you list him among Parcells' poor draft choices.

He was the better player on the field then. i loved how you called me out and when i asked for a better defender or game he played poorly in you just kinda disappeared.

But youre right i shouldn't have included Carp in that.

 

[Kilyin]

His position on Parcells is the complete opposite of Romo and Newman's. It's not that hard to understand. Or maybe it is.

Then why wouldn't you just say that and leave it at that? Tossing in the other part leads to the confusion.

Not a matter of understanding, you just worded what you were trying to convey poorly. It's okay.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Then why wouldn't you just say that and leave it at that? Tossing in the other part leads to the confusion.

Not a matter of understanding, you just worded what you were trying to convey poorly. It's okay.

there seems to be alot of that in this thread

 

[superpunk]

Then why wouldn't you just say that and leave it at that? Tossing in the other part leads to the confusion.

Not a matter of understanding, you just worded what you were trying to convey poorly. It's okay.

I conveyed exactly what I intended. You simply read too much into it, and tried to make it negative to Owens, for whatever reason. I guess red herrings add something to the conversation.

When it comes to a democratic candidate, I'm not going to ask Rush Limbaugh what he thinks. When it comes to head coaches, I'm not going to wonder what Terrell Owens thinks, for a variety of reasons.

 

[khiladi]

I have nothing bad to say about Owens as a Cowboy. But when it comes to his opinion on his coaches, I think I'm more than justified in taking what he says with one huge grain of salt, while giving more credence to the opinion of guys who have never had any problems getting along with coaches or teammates, never been problems.

You mean 'yes-men' give the honest truth about their bosses all the time? What about 'nice-guys'? Maybe they are just too nice? Or maybe they are just too emotionally sensitive, which doesn't allow them to see the reality for what it is?

SO when TO said he wasn't being used correctly with BP and then Garrett comes along and TO explodes and has one of his best seasons ever, he wasn't correct in his assertion about the coaching? Garrett's offense put Tony Romo number 2 overall, next to Brady, who was having an NFL record year, and your going to argue TO wasn't correct in his assertion? How many of the main players were that different between the two offenses?

 

[theebs]

Rather nice dramatic story you painted of the sacrifices of Bill Parcells... Yet, here we have Jason Taylor being treated in a similar manner of Owens... DO you see the pattern here as far as it concerns Parcells? Since when has JT ever been accused of not working hard and where is that reputation of being selfish? Parcells hasn't endeared himself to well to a guy that has had a squeaky clean image not only on-the-field but off-the-field as well...

BTW, how do explain the fact that TO played all of last season with a torn tendon in his hand that required surgery? DId he play the whole season or put it off until March of 2007? Is that selfish?

lol

These are two different situations, but ironically they both have something in common, they are employees of an organization. The power of the organization was given by the owner to Bill Parcells. That is the first thing. The next thing is now that we have established parcells is in charge, parcells impements his way. The way of discipline. Discipline for parcells starts in the spring with weight training, conditioning and studying. The biggest parameters of that first step in the offseason are Attendance and effort.

Unlike owens Jason Taylor has a somewhat slim ability to complain because he didnt sign a contract to play for parcells. Terrell Owens on the other hand signed on his own will a contract to play for bill parcells in 2006. The first step after signing that contract to play for parcells was weight training and conditioning of which the two biggest attributes are attendance and effort.

Owens flunked the first part and then only showed up for the one mandatory camp. So now he goes to LA by himself and greets the team at the airport. Thats wonderful. Then he gets injured almost immediately at camp. Hmm. lets see worked out on his own and not within the system he just signed up for and now is on the sideline riding a bike till he gets better and of course makes a mockery of that.

Owens was showing parcells from day one that his discipline didnt apply to someone like himself. Gee I wonder why the relationship was unpleasent?

Now for taylor he has flunked the first part also. He is a no show for weight training and he is a no show for ota's and minicamps. If they get it resolved and he shows up to camp and gets injured then what?

and again, the situations are different. Taylor didnt sign a large contract to play for Parcells, owens did. Rules are rules. THese guys when you break it down are employees and have to abide by the structure set in place. If they dont they frankly have no right to complain.