Bitcoin. Any experts/owners?

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YosemiteSam

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Governmental blunder machines. If they say something, expect the opposite. :)

Alan Greenspan or Ben Bernanke anyone?

I'm bullish on Crypto-PUTs. (I wish they existed)
 
gmoney112

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YosemiteSam said:
Governmental blunder machines. If they say something, expect the opposite. :)

Alan Greenspan or Ben Bernanke anyone?

I'm bullish on Crypto-PUTs. (I wish they existed)
Click to expand...

:laugh:

The Senate meeting was largely over classification, and how to better prosecute bad actors.

The thinking is they may classify it as a security, but that's not set in stone. ICOs (Initial Coin Offerings) will definitely be classified as securities.

Exchanges are fine, they already do AML and KYC(money laundering + identity stuff).

In 2015, Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies were classified as a commodity. The futures are covered by the CFTC.

An expert and a Senator were both adamant about how the underlying technology can change the world. Cryptocurrencies are here to stay.
 
Reality

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gmoney112 said:
:laugh:

The Senate meeting was largely over classification, and how to better prosecute bad actors.

The thinking is they may classify it as a security, but that's not set in stone. ICOs (Initial Coin Offerings) will definitely be classified as securities.

Exchanges are fine, they already do AML and KYC(money laundering + identity stuff).

In 2015, Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies were classified as a commodity. The futures are covered by the CFTC.

An expert and a Senator were both adamant about how the underlying technology can change the world. Cryptocurrencies are here to stay.
Click to expand...
I think if you go back and read his posts, along with mine, you will see that we both support block-chain technology and the future of crypto-currencies. What we have no faith in are the specific crypto-currencies that are based purely on speculation while lacking any tangible value.

For bitcoin, you don't even need block-chain technology now as most of the bitcoins are owned and traded as part of the market price manipulation by a small number of very large investors. You could literally just create a new currency and call it "CZcoins" and as long as you define a finite number of them and can convince people they are worth something, they will have value just like bitcoins while at the same time, having no tangible value .. again, just like bitcoins.

As more and more companies move away from bitcoins as a payment source, the true nature of that specific crypto-currency comes to light for more and more people. There is no tangible value. It's valuation is based purely on speculation and when the large investors lose interest, the valuation will drop as it has been doing the last few weeks.
 
65fastback2plus2

65fastback2plus2

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Reality said:
I think if you go back and read his posts, along with mine, you will see that we both support block-chain technology and the future of crypto-currencies. What we have no faith in are the specific crypto-currencies that are based purely on speculation while lacking any tangible value.

For bitcoin, you don't even need block-chain technology now as most of the bitcoins are owned and traded as part of the market price manipulation by a small number of very large investors. You could literally just create a new currency and call it "CZcoins" and as long as you define a finite number of them and can convince people they are worth something, they will have value just like bitcoins while at the same time, having no tangible value .. again, just like bitcoins.

As more and more companies move away from bitcoins as a payment source, the true nature of that specific crypto-currency comes to light for more and more people. There is no tangible value. It's valuation is based purely on speculation and when the large investors lose interest, the valuation will drop as it has been doing the last few weeks.
Click to expand...

The only problem here is you have literally described anything that has been or is being used as money.

Fiat Currency
Diamonds
Gold

This is money that was used in Africa until the 1940's...anyone wanna tell me its value? lol

1280px-Manillaokhapo.JPG
 
Reality

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65fastback2plus2 said:
The only problem here is you have literally described anything that has been or is being used as money.

Fiat Currency
Diamonds
Gold

This is money that was used in Africa until the 1940's...anyone wanna tell me its value? lol
Click to expand...
You keep mentioning fiat currency, gold, etc. but those are perfect examples of currencies that have tangible value beyond their perceived value. Gold is used in a large variety of products manufactured every day plus it is sought after for a lot of personal items such as jewelry, etc. Fiat currencies are backed by their country's banking systems and assets and unless a country loses its land and assets or purposely screws over its people, fiat currency does not disappear. It may be heavily devalued on a global scale, but it doesn't just disappear because there are tangible assets behind it.

I get it. You're in love with non-tangible currency. Well, you need to get it. I'm not. No intelligent person ever would be. Can you make money from it? Sure! You can also make money gambling if you're good at it, but that doesn't make it smart. You can also lose everything with both.

The fact you keep spinning this around and acting like I (or Sam) am anti-crypto-currency just shows you have no real argument for bitcoins and other non-tangible based crypto-currency. Block-chain has a lot of potential. Crypto-currency in general has a lot of potential. But without some type of tangible fallback value, it's nothing more than pure speculation.

All currencies include some speculation. There's no debate about that. The one thing those currencies have behind them? Assets. Real value. Does the value equal their valuation? Probably not, but there is at least some real value behind it. Meaning a barrel of oil could never be worth $0 because there are too many things that use oil/gas. Gold will never be worth $0 because there is too much demand for it given how many things it is used in and for.

As I said, I get it. You are fully committed to non-tangible gambling crypto-currencies, and I truly (I mean this) hope you do well and make a lot of money. That said, when I hear someone preaching snake oil to the masses, I am going to call it for what it is. What you do with your own money and assets is completely up to you whether that's buying bitcoins, hit the casinos, betting on sports games, buying endless lottery tickets, collecting rare antiques, etc. It is your money and you should do what you want with it.

However, there have been too many stories of average people spending money they either don't have via credit or money they cannot afford to lose to buy into the bitcoin fad (not crypto-currency, BITCOIN). You know what else that sounds like? The same thing you say about people with gambling addictions.
 
YosemiteSam

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OUCH! No freaking way would I touch that stuff. Way too much of an irreconcilable hack that is moving back towards standard banking (regulated by the government and centralization) and most likely criminal behavior behind it.

The Ripple Story

The conclusion of it:

Conclusion

Much of this report has focused on disputes, primarily related to control over XRP, including accusations of theft. Perhaps such disputes are not particularly unique, especially given the rapid, unexpected growth in the value of the ecosystem. In fact, this story of the disputes might not be too dissimilar from that of some of the large tech giants mentioned in the introduction to this piece.

More significant than the disputes is the fact that the Ripple system appears for all practical purposes to be centralised and is therefore perhaps devoid of any interesting technical characteristics, such as censorship resistance, which coins like Bitcoin may have — although this does not mean that Ripple or XRP is doomed to failure. The company has significant financial capital and has proven somewhat effective at marketing and forming business partnerships, and perhaps this could mean the company succeeds at building adoption of the XRP token either among businesses or consumers. If so, the points that Bitcoin critics often raise may be even more pertinent and relevant in the case of XRP. These points include:

  • The lack of inflation is a naive economic policy.
  • The price of the token is too volatile and speculative.
  • Regulators will shut the system down if it becomes popular.
  • Perhaps most importantly, why not use the US dollar? Banks will build competing digital systems based on traditional currencies (if they don’t exist already).
The real mystery about Ripple is that, given the large market value of the system, why are all the Bitcoin critics so silent? Perhaps the answer to this question is just as applicable to some of Bitcoin’s proponents as it is to its critics. Most people seem to judge things on what they perceive as the culture and character of those involved, rather than on the technical fundamentals.​
 
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65fastback2plus2

65fastback2plus2

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YosemiteSam said:
OUCH! No freaking way would I touch that stuff. Way too much of an irreconcilable hack that is moving back towards standard banking (regulated by the government and centralization) and most likely criminal behavior behind it.

The Ripple Story

The conclusion of it:

Conclusion

Much of this report has focused on disputes, primarily related to control over XRP, including accusations of theft. Perhaps such disputes are not particularly unique, especially given the rapid, unexpected growth in the value of the ecosystem. In fact, this story of the disputes might not be too dissimilar from that of some of the large tech giants mentioned in the introduction to this piece.

More significant than the disputes is the fact that the Ripple system appears for all practical purposes to be centralised and is therefore perhaps devoid of any interesting technical characteristics, such as censorship resistance, which coins like Bitcoin may have — although this does not mean that Ripple or XRP is doomed to failure. The company has significant financial capital and has proven somewhat effective at marketing and forming business partnerships, and perhaps this could mean the company succeeds at building adoption of the XRP token either among businesses or consumers. If so, the points that Bitcoin critics often raise may be even more pertinent and relevant in the case of XRP. These points include:

  • The lack of inflation is a naive economic policy.
  • The price of the token is too volatile and speculative.
  • Regulators will shut the system down if it becomes popular.
  • Perhaps most importantly, why not use the US dollar? Banks will build competing digital systems based on traditional currencies (if they don’t exist already).
The real mystery about Ripple is that, given the large market value of the system, why are all the Bitcoin critics so silent? Perhaps the answer to this question is just as applicable to some of Bitcoin’s proponents as it is to its critics. Most people seem to judge things on what they perceive as the culture and character of those involved, rather than on the technical fundamentals.​
Click to expand...

You believed a completely fraud article? Who would have thought?! lol
 
65fastback2plus2

65fastback2plus2

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Reality said:
You keep mentioning fiat currency, gold, etc. but those are perfect examples of currencies that have tangible value beyond their perceived value. Gold is used in a large variety of products manufactured every day plus it is sought after for a lot of personal items such as jewelry, etc. Fiat currencies are backed by their country's banking systems and assets and unless a country loses its land and assets or purposely screws over its people, fiat currency does not disappear. It may be heavily devalued on a global scale, but it doesn't just disappear because there are tangible assets behind it.

I get it. You're in love with non-tangible currency. Well, you need to get it. I'm not. No intelligent person ever would be. Can you make money from it? Sure! You can also make money gambling if you're good at it, but that doesn't make it smart. You can also lose everything with both.

The fact you keep spinning this around and acting like I (or Sam) am anti-crypto-currency just shows you have no real argument for bitcoins and other non-tangible based crypto-currency. Block-chain has a lot of potential. Crypto-currency in general has a lot of potential. But without some type of tangible fallback value, it's nothing more than pure speculation.

All currencies include some speculation. There's no debate about that. The one thing those currencies have behind them? Assets. Real value. Does the value equal their valuation? Probably not, but there is at least some real value behind it. Meaning a barrel of oil could never be worth $0 because there are too many things that use oil/gas. Gold will never be worth $0 because there is too much demand for it given how many things it is used in and for.

As I said, I get it. You are fully committed to non-tangible gambling crypto-currencies, and I truly (I mean this) hope you do well and make a lot of money. That said, when I hear someone preaching snake oil to the masses, I am going to call it for what it is. What you do with your own money and assets is completely up to you whether that's buying bitcoins, hit the casinos, betting on sports games, buying endless lottery tickets, collecting rare antiques, etc. It is your money and you should do what you want with it.

However, there have been too many stories of average people spending money they either don't have via credit or money they cannot afford to lose to buy into the bitcoin fad (not crypto-currency, BITCOIN). You know what else that sounds like? The same thing you say about people with gambling addictions.
Click to expand...

I think you're missing some stuff.

First, I want to note you completely avoided my picture. Convenient heh.

Second, my point is, anything only has value because people assign it value. Gold is nearly worthless (its only jewelry because people assigned it high value, same for diamonds). Outside of that, gold makes some lens reflector coatings and diamonds are cool for saw blades. But they have almost no real purpose.

I dont care much about cryopto currencies really...and I think thats where the disconnect is. But I am HUGE into blockchain technologies.

As they said on the senate committee yesterday, "this will be bigger than the wireless revolution was for the 1980's".
 
YosemiteSam

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Quoting the founders of Ripple's website does not bear the burden of proof of a pro Ripple argument. That's like asking a politician to tell you the truth and then expecting to get it or asking a car salesman if his competitor's cars are better than the one is he selling. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose by telling the truth.

It's a fools errand.

btw, my article came from a crypto exchange (BitMEX) since it pertains to their business. (Ripple does trade on their exchange) Though I suspect you didn't even read it.
 
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65fastback2plus2

65fastback2plus2

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YosemiteSam said:
Quoting the founders of Ripple's website does not bear the burden of proof of a pro Ripple argument. That's like asking a politician to tell you the truth and then expecting to get it or asking a car salesman if his competitor's cars are better than the one is he selling. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose by telling the truth.

It's a fools errand.

btw, my article came from a crypto exchange (BitMEX) since it pertains to their business. (Ripple does trade on their exchange) Though I suspect you didn't even read it.
Click to expand...

Your article is false. I can show you articles from bitcoin.com that are false. Woopty do.

If you dont know what you're talking about, best not to spread falsehoods.

Also, coindesk > bitmex

https://www.coindesk.com/chinas-payment-firm-eyes-blockchain-for-overseas-transaction/

CEO of LIAN LIAN said:
"With RippleNet, we will further enhance that experience by offering customers instant, blockchain-powered payments across the 19 currencies that we currently support."
Click to expand...

I did also laugh that you said I didnt read the article...when Reality posted it yesterday and I responded even citing the article and showing it was false.

Throwing around cliche presumptive talking points shows little interest in actual thinking.
 
YosemiteSam

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While fastback has changed his story from cryptocurrency to Ripple, I will not include him (though he can watch) the great Charlie Munger (Warren Buffett's right hand man) discuss cryptocurrencies. (it's an hour long, but I've set the time period right before he discusses this topic)

Intelligence wise, he makes Warren Buffett seem like a piss ant. This guy is straight consistent self-educated brilliance. He is the definition of rational thought.

 
65fastback2plus2

65fastback2plus2

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YosemiteSam said:
While fastback has changed his story from cryptocurrency to Ripple, I will not include him (though he can watch) the great Charlie Munger (Warren Buffett's right hand man) discuss cryptocurrencies. (it's an hour long, but I've set the time period right before he discusses this topic)

Intelligence wise, he makes Warren Buffett seem like a piss ant. This guy is straight consistent self-educated brilliance. He is the definition of rational thought.

Click to expand...


I love you ignored when I said Buffett is getting into blockchain now. So here's you a reminder: https://discover.coinsquare.io/blockchain/warren-buffett-bnsf-joins-bita/

Also, XRP is not the only useful token...its just the one I believe has the best chance of success.

ADA is another token to look at if you're looking for actual usefulness.
 
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