Bledsoe > Roethlisburger

[percyhoward]

It's amazing how people think they get a handle on what kind of player a guy is, and they can't be convinced that he's anything else, no matter how much evidence you provide them. The general impression here of Big Ben is that he just hands the ball off to an all-world RB, behind a dominant OL, tries to avoid INT's, and collects his paycheck.

The facts are that his OL doesn't protect him any better than average, his back doesn't do anything until the second half (when they usually already have the lead), and it's Roethlisberger himself who actually dictates the game early, with a 105.8 rating and a sick 9.58 ypa in the first half. That may be an all-time record for ypa in a first half, if not it's top 5.

Forget the sour grapes and let's be realistic. He is all that.

 

[Hostile]

It's amazing how people think they get a handle on what kind of player a guy is, and they can't be convinced that he's anything else, no matter how much evidence you provide them. The general impression here of Big Ben is that he just hands the ball off to an all-world RB, behind a dominant OL, tries to avoid INT's, and collects his paycheck.

The facts are that his OL doesn't protect him any better than average, his back doesn't do anything until the second half (when they usually already have the lead), and it's Roethlisberger himself who actually dictates the game early, with a 105.8 rating and a sick 9.58 ypa in the first half. That may be an all-time record for ypa in a first half, if not it's top 5.

Forget the sour grapes and let's be realistic. He is all that.

Excellent diagnosis. I admit to bias myself, but when I'm wrong, I'm wrong. No one is always right. Little baubles by a player here and there are not evidence of omniscience. That's just the facts of life.

 

[percyhoward]

Four yards per carry is a first down all day long. Averaging 140 yards a game on the ground will get alot of wins.

I don't care about the logistics and how many carries they had in the second half. That's all irrelevant. You called the Steelers' running game average, and that's just not true. I noticed you conveniently ignored the fact that their run game was top 5 in the NFL. Doesn't really support your average theory now does it?

Nice attempt at backpedaling though.

I didn't ignore anything. When you say their running game is top 5, you're basing it on total yards, which is not just a measure of how well you run, but also of how many times you run.

Does averaging 140 yards on the ground get you a lot of wins, or does it mean you could afford to run it so much because you were already winning the game? Take another look at how the Steelers bulit their leads, and tell me they did it on the ground.

The funny part is the "4 yards per carry gets you a first down all game long."
Using that logic, the Baltimore Ravens, who averaged 3.6 ypc should also have gotten first downs all day long too. With their defense, and "first down all day long" running attack, they should have been one of the strongest teams in the league last year.

What did the Steelers have that the Ravens didn't have...?

 

[aikemirv]

Then Bledsoe is a your "basic" bus driver.


Which is pretty accurate.

I kinda think Bledsoe is an airplane or a trainwreck depending on the week.

He is nothing of a bus driver if you ask me.

I don't think of him as a game manager at all. He did well in the Washington game hitting checkdowns and so forth, but that was one of the few times I have seen him do that in his time with Dallas.

 

[Doomsday101]

I kinda think Bledsoe is an airplane or a trainwreck depending on the week.

He is nothing of a bus driver if you ask me.

I don't think of him as a game manager at all. He did well in the Washington game hitting checkdowns and so forth, but that was one of the few times I have seen him do that in his time with Dallas.

If you recall BP was working with the QB during camp about getting the ball out quicker. Standing behind them hollering to them to get rid of the ball.

 

[Kilyin]

I didn't ignore anything. When you say their running game is top 5, you're basing it on total yards, which is not just a measure of how well you run, but also of how many times you run.

Doesn't matter how many times they ran in the context of your argument. You claimed their run game was average, I disagree. You've done nothing to substantiate your claim. Whether they ran better in the second half or how they built the majority of their leads is inconsequential. Let's also not forget that as a general rule just about any team runs better in the second half than the first half. It's called the defense getting worn down. Do you honestly believe that Bettis and Parker were 'average' running backs last year? Because if you call a team's running game average, one can only conclude that they must have had average running backs. Out of curiosity, where did you rank the Cowboys running game last year? Average? Below average? Keeping in mind they only averaged 3.6 YPC.

Does averaging 140 yards on the ground get you a lot of wins, or does it mean you could afford to run it so much because you were already winning the game? Take another look at how the Steelers bulit their leads, and tell me they did it on the ground.

Again, see above. I am not debating how the Steelers play or build a lead. I'm simply stating that last year their run game was one of the best in the league. I'd also bet (but haven't researched it) that most of the time when a team has 140 yards rushing in a game, they are not only winning time of possession, but the game as well. Off the top of my head, a team that can do that probably wins 75% of the time or better barring alot of turnovers, etc.

The funny part is the "4 yards per carry gets you a first down all game long." Using that logic, the Baltimore Ravens, who averaged 3.6 ypc should also have gotten first downs all day long too. With their defense, and "first down all day long" running attack, they should have been one of the strongest teams in the league last year.

I don't see what's funny about it. 3.6 YPC is a far cry from 4.0 YPC if you want to sit here and argue about YPC all day. The Ravens also only averaged 100 yards per game, ranking near the bottom of the league. That is hardly an apt comparison to what the Steelers produced in the running game.

What did the Steelers have that the Ravens didn't have...?

Alot of things. For one, the Steelers had a top 3 defense that wasn't plagued with injuries. And nobody is comparing Kyle Boller to Big Bend Over. Keep in mind I'm not arguing that Bledsoe is better than Roethlesberger, the only thing I'm arguing against is that the Steelers had an average running game, because that's ridiculous. In fact, it's downright laughable to any knowledgable football fan.

 

[StarAmongStars]

I kinda think Bledsoe is an airplane or a trainwreck depending on the week.

He is nothing of a bus driver if you ask me.

I don't think of him as a game manager at all. He did well in the Washington game hitting checkdowns and so forth, but that was one of the few times I have seen him do that in his time with Dallas.

Bledsoe is a wily veteran....and I'll take his 12-13 great games per year over the few when he plays abysmal.

 

[joseephuss]

Doesn't matter how many times they ran in the context of your argument. You claimed their run game was average, I disagree. You've done nothing to substantiate your claim. Whether they ran better in the second half or how they built the majority of their leads is inconsequential. Let's also not forget that as a general rule just about any team runs better in the second half than the first half. It's called the defense getting worn down. Do you honestly believe that Bettis and Parker were 'average' running backs last year? Because if you call a team's running game average, one can only conclude that they must have had average running backs. Out of curiosity, where did you rank the Cowboys running game last year? Average? Below average? Keeping in mind they only averaged 3.6 YPC.

Bettis was no average back last season. He was well below average. It was not just the emergence of Parker that relegated Bettis to goal line situations. His skills had greatly eroded, which happens to older backs. Looks like Staley is also going through the same thing.

 

[percyhoward]

Do you honestly believe that Bettis and Parker were 'average' running backs last year?

I don't think I can make it any clearer.

I am not debating how the Steelers play or build a lead. I'm simply stating that last year their run game was one of the best in the league.

I know what you're saying. Their run totals were the 5th best. But they led the league in rushing attempts. If Bettis and Parker were so far above average, why didn't they lead the league in total yards? They had more attempts than anybody else.

And the reason they had more rushing attempts is because a) the Steelers' defense kept the opponent off the field, giving the Steelers offense greater time of possession and thus more plays from scrimmage, and b) when a team gets a lead, it has the luxury of not having to throw nearly as much.

I don't see what's funny about it. 3.6 YPC is a far cry from 4.0 YPC if you want to sit here and argue about YPC all day. The Ravens also only averaged 100 yards per game, ranking near the bottom of the league. That is hardly an apt comparison to what the Steelers produced in the running game.

Your argument was that the Steelers' 4.0 ypc would get you a first down all day. Average 3.6 yards per carry and you can run on every down, never face a 4th down situation, and you also get "first downs all day." That's your logic, not mine.

Obviously, it doesn't work that way. So it's a pretty lame argument for trying to say that 4.0 is impressive. 4.0 is 12th best in the league.

But 4.0 is, you say, a "far cry" from 3.6. Fine. The top four rushing teams in the NFL last year averaged 4.7 Can those theams even hear the Steelers' 4.0 crying from that far away?

For one, the Steelers had a top 3 defense that wasn't plagued with injuries. And nobody is comparing Kyle Boller to Big Bend Over. Keep in mind I'm not arguing that Bledsoe is better than Roethlesberger, the only thing I'm arguing against is that the Steelers had an average running game, because that's ridiculous. In fact, it's downright laughable to any knowledgable football fan.

A knowledgable football fan would know the Ravens defense gave up 284.7 ypg and the Steelers gave up 284. Pittsburgh ranked 4th. Baltimore 5th. The difference was the QB. Pretty big difference too.

The Dolphins averaged 4.3. The Texans averaged 4.2. What is so impressive to you about 4.0?

 

[Jarv]

Bledsoe is a wily veteran....and I'll take his 12-13 great games per year over the few when he plays abysmal.

How Noristic of you. I'll root for Bledsoe because I want to win.

I would feel much more confident about winning with a number of other QB's out there right now, I'm sure you probably would also.

The difference is the number.

I would pick at least 15 other guys I would rather have, you would pick maybe 5 other guys (If you want to give the exact number, please do).

 

[BruceWayne]

He has more natural talent than Hamburglar, yes.

But Hamburglar has 10x the decision making ability as Bledsoe.

and he's more athletic

 

[jay cee]

Please name me a "bus driver" QB that has won two Superbowls?

Jim Plunkett, I believe.

 

[Kilyin]

I don't think I can make it any clearer.

Full spin cycle, just like a washing machine.

I know what you're saying.

Doesn't seem like you do.

Their run totals were the 5th best. But they led the league in rushing attempts. If Bettis and Parker were so far above average, why didn't they lead the league in total yards? They had more attempts than anybody else

So to be classified as above average, in your eyes, a person or team has to be the very best? I'm sorry, but I don't think you know what average or above average really mean, if that's the case. Don't pretend this argument is about my statement that 4.0 YPC will get you first downs all day. It's about your cluelessness when you stated the Steelers' running game was average.

And the reason they had more rushing attempts is because a) the Steelers' defense kept the opponent off the field, giving the Steelers offense greater time of possession and thus more plays from scrimmage, and b) when a team gets a lead, it has the luxury of not having to throw nearly as much.

Wow, really? I didn't know that. I think we're both aware why they led the league in attempts, because they were running down the clock with a lead. YPC and number of attempts don't matter, the end production does. Any person with a lick of sense knows average running teams don't finish top 5 in the league. There is nothing you can say to dispute that without looking foolish.

Your argument was that the Steelers' 4.0 ypc would get you a first down all day. Average 3.6 yards per carry and you can run on every down, never face a 4th down situation, and you also get "first downs all day." That's your logic, not mine.

The best backs in the league average 4-5 YPC. That's a fact. That's not how this argument began either, so give it a rest.

 

[StarAmongStars]

How Noristic of you. I'll root for Bledsoe because I want to win.

I would feel much more confident about winning with a number of other QB's out there right now, I'm sure you probably would also.

The difference is the number.

I would pick at least 15 other guys I would rather have, you would pick maybe 5 other guys (If you want to give the exact number, please do).

If we are talking about proven veterans, there's not many other guys I would take over Bledsoe. However there are a lot of young guys in this league that have 'potential', problem is most are just a bit raw for my tastes.

Let's face facts here, Bledsoe is the veteran this offense needs to take us where we want to go and even Jerry Jones vouched for it. And the fans out there begging for Romo obviously want to concede to defeat and enter rebuilding mode. Me? I want championships....

 

[joseephuss]

If we are talking about proven veterans, there's not many other guys I would take over Bledsoe. However there are a lot of young guys in this league that have 'potential', problem is most are just a bit raw for my tastes.

Let's face facts here, Bledsoe is the veteran this offense needs to take us where we want to go and even Jerry Jones vouched for it. And the fans out there begging for Romo obviously want to concede to defeat and enter rebuilding mode. Me? I want championships....

Every person on this board wants championships.

We are left with Romo vs. Bledsoe. Idon't have too much confidence in Drew to bring a championship any time soon and he isn't a long term solution at QB. That doesn't mean I want Romo right now, but it does look like he will be looked at as the long term QB. Maybe Dallas will have to go find a young guy or trade for someone. The O-line is still the biggest concern in Dallas, but after that it is QB. Bledsoe has not led a team to the post season since 1997. That is a long drought. It is going to take every other facet of the team to win a Superbowl and hope that Drew doesn't screw it up.

 

[StarAmongStars]

Every person on this board wants championships.

We are left with Romo vs. Bledsoe. Idon't have too much confidence in Drew to bring a championship any time soon and he isn't a long term solution at QB. That doesn't mean I want Romo right now, but it does look like he will be looked at as the long term QB. Maybe Dallas will have to go find a young guy or trade for someone. The O-line is still the biggest concern in Dallas, but after that it is QB. Bledsoe has not led a team to the post season since 1997. That is a long drought. It is going to take every other facet of the team to win a Superbowl and hope that Drew doesn't screw it up.

Romo's career would have lasted one game if he would have started against jacksonville....kid has talent but we need a capable veteran leading this team right now. Bledsoe isn't getting any younger, but he has been to two superbowls and has the best supporting cast of his entire career this season. I like this teams chances and feel that Bledsoe is poised for great things, especially if the oline holds up.:starspin

 

[Cochese]

If we are talking about proven veterans, there's not many other guys I would take over Bledsoe. However there are a lot of young guys in this league that have 'potential', problem is most are just a bit raw for my tastes.

Let's face facts here, Bledsoe is the veteran this offense needs to take us where we want to go and even Jerry Jones vouched for it. And the fans out there begging for Romo obviously want to concede to defeat and enter rebuilding mode. Me? I want championships....

Where can Bledsoe take this team? To the NFC championship game (since thats about all he has proven he can win) so Romo can win the big game? Playing a new quarterback is not entering rebuilding mode since the team is stacked with talent elsewhere, were the Patriots in rebuilding mode in 04? Were the Steelers in 06?

Who cares what Jerry vouches for? If he had his way, Henson would be starting.

 

[Cochese]

Romo's career would have lasted one game if he would have started against jacksonville....kid has talent but we need a capable veteran leading this team right now. Bledsoe isn't getting any younger, but he has been to two superbowls and has the best supporting cast of his entire career this season. I like this teams chances and feel that Bledsoe is poised for great things, especially if the oline holds up.:starspin

He diddnt even play in one of them and threw 4 picks in the other, he might as well have never even seen the big game.

 

[StarAmongStars]

He diddnt even play in one of them and threw 4 picks in the other, he might as well have never even seen the big game.

The point is he still won the AFC championship game and got his team there twice, while so other so called great QB's have been to even one (P. Manning).

I dug out the tape from the 96' season and the Packers were by far the better team that season. Yet Bledsoe led the Pats to an early lead before their shoddy special teams coverage let Desmond Howard blow the game wide open.....so his 4 INT performance is a bit misleading since he was forced to virtually every down in the second half.

 

[joseephuss]

The point is he still won the AFC championship game and got his team there twice, while so other so called great QB's have been to even one (P. Manning).

I dug out the tape from the 96' season and the Packers were by far the better team that season. Yet Bledsoe led the Pats to an early lead before their shoddy special teams coverage let Desmond Howard blow the game wide open.....so his 4 INT performance is a bit misleading since he was forced to virtually every down in the second half.

You credit Bledsoe for getting to the SB and blame the special teams for losing it. Yet, you blame Manning for not getting to the big game. I don't see you blaming the special teams for missing a game tying field goal or the defense for getting pushed around.

The Patriot's defense and special teams are more responsible for the teams success in the playoffs than Drew's performances. He played a part, but not as much as you make it out to be.

Manning deserves blame for not reaching the SB, but again he is not alone in that blame.

Peyton Manning in the playoffs
59.9% completion percentage
7.6 yards per attempt
15 TDs for a 4.7% per attempt
8 INTs for a 2.5% per attempt which is lower than his regular season
89.1 rating

Drew Bledsoe in the playoffs
51.2% completion percentage
5.3 yards per attempt
6 TDs for a 2.4% per attempt
12 INTs for a 4.8% per attempt
54.9 rating