Bob Sanders on running up the scores

[dogberry]

I checked Fox Sports, and Wilfork looks to have only been fined for that awful, late hit on Losman. $12,500 for Losman and $5,000 for Witten.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

That's messed up. I never thought anything like that would happen in Alaska. So much for being the last frontier... thugonomics knows no bounds I guess.


Sad world we live in. Seems we're going backwards as a civilization to the days of the wild wild west.

In some ways, those who lived in the wild wild west had a far better understanding of the importance of social etiquette and respecting your fellow man or woman.

There were very few laws and even fewer law enforcement officials. Civility was maintained largely through the "social pressures" that people placed on themselves.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just adding to the conversation.

 

[Jimz31]

I'm wondering WHY our players were so hesitant to hit Brady...almost everytime that they were on him, they were pulling up....did the refs warn us about hits on him? Did the NFL?

 

[NextGenBoys]

Bob sanders was on the radio today and when they asked him if he thought the Pats have been running up the scores and if he feels they take cheap shots. he said put it this way if they try that Crap with us Brady is going to suffer the consequences. He went on to say that Karma is a b and what goes around comes around. He said if they have a large lead and they want to keep him in then the way he sees it a 15 yard penalty is going to hurt the Pats more then it will hurt them... Wow I think Bill had better stop messing with teams some bad people are getting pretty upset.

Thats my boy Bob. He's still a Hawkeye at heart.

Now for all you haters that were bashing him a few weeks ago, dont you wish Roy would say something like that?

I'd take Bob Sanders over Roy Williams in a heartbeat. And I love Roy, dont get me wrong. But damn, Bob is still my boy.

 

[NextGenBoys]

Bob Sanders voiced what people all over the league are discussing in private. I think even "The Jaw" referred to the consequences of running up the score earlier this week.

If you guys on here think that running up the score on other teams is showing respect to the game or other teams, that's fine, I'm not going to change your mind, but you lack common sense.

These threads make me wish I'd spent my money on gum rather than supporting this site.

Very well put.

 

[Idgit]

On the contrary, social pressure is always relevant. Society persists and flourishes largely because of social pressure.

There are no laws dictating that we help old ladies across the street, or treat our fellow men and women with basic respect and dignity. There's no federal requirement to donate money to charity or help the impoverished from other countries. But we do these things for the benefit, improvement, and subsistence of society.

And the NFL is a microcosm of society.

One of the unwritten rules in the NFL society discourages running up scores, and regardless of whether you accept running up the score as a "real thing," it is a very lucid reality to the players and coaches around the league. Consequently, as Bob Sanders has demonstrated, there are very "real" consequences if this particular unwritten rule is breached.

Don't misunderstand me here. I don't support or condone Sanders' comments. I'm merely recognizing the consequences of Belichik's disregard for league etiquitte. He's opening a Pandora's Box here, and the people most affected by Belichik's hubris will be the players on the field, not him.

Regardless of Belichik's intentions here, he must realize and understand how his actions in victory are affecting other teams. You aren't justified in repeatedly being a jerk simply because you didn't initially intend to be a jerk.

Similarly, you shouldn't necessarily do something just because you can get away with it. That attitude can completely undermine a society.

Social pressure exists, and it affects they way people in a social group act--some more than others. That fact is not relevant to the question of whether or not it's okay for an offense to continue to try to score. That it might have relevance elsewhere is not at issue.

Let me take a different tack, since repeatedly stating the same thing over and over doesn't appear to be convincing many. Can someone explain to me how it is not disrespectful for an offense to decide it needs to stop trying to do its job because to continue to give its best effort would be too humiliating to the other side? That's the very definition of patronizing and disrespectful in my book. I've been in that exact situation on a football field and very nearly was removed from the game because of how I reacted to it.

I wonder if people don't get too wrapped up in the posturing that goes on in an NFL football game and forget that it's really just a very basic competition they're watching. It only lasts for a few hours. Why not play as hard as you can from whistle to whistle? At what point, exactly, does the competition become a referendum on one team's self worth and self respect? Isn't it simpler just to see it as a competition and appreciate the effort on both sides? There's enough opportunity for disrespect before, after, and between games. Why can't the play on the field just speak for itself?

And we can agree to disagree about what constitutes disrespect, since that's obviously open to interpretation. I do wonder, though, how many would be arguing with me if the game were 52-7, Dallas beating Washington at home on a couple of deep passes late in the 4th quarter.

 

[dallasfaniac]

Can someone explain to me how it is not disrespectful for an offense to decide it needs to stop trying to do its job because to continue to give its best effort would be too humiliating to the other side?

So your saying that it's their job to continue scoring and throwing long passes no matter that the game is way out of reach. So there is 30 seconds left in the game that they are leading by 40, they are on the 8 yard line facing 3rd and goal and the other team is out of timeouts so they can't stop the game. They better take a timeout to make sure they have the right call in so they don't miss the opportunity to score, right? That is their job, to score. You never know, the other team may go on a 40 point rampage with that 30 seconds to tie it up so that 7 points may come in handy. Heck, make it 8 points because going for 2 is how you ensure the game is out of reach.

You are the expert, at what point does the other team consider it disrespectfull?

 

[Idgit]

So your saying that it's their job to continue scoring and throwing long passes no matter that the game is way out of reach. So there is 30 seconds left in the game that they are leading by 40, they are on the 8 yard line facing 3rd and goal and the other team is out of timeouts so they can't stop the game. They better take a timeout to make sure they have the right call in so they don't miss the opportunity to score, right? That is their job, to score. You never know, the other team may go on a 40 point rampage with that 30 seconds to tie it up so that 7 points may come in handy. Heck, make it 8 points because going for 2 is how you ensure the game is out of reach.

You are the expert, at what point does the other team consider it disrespectfull?

That's exactly what I'm saying. You might not have your starters in, but it's perfectly legitimate for the players who are in to try to score whenever they're on the field. (It's also perfectly legitimate to have your starters in and have them trying to score). Now, there are reasons why a coach may chose not to do that, too--protecting the entire squad from the risk of injury. I fully understand that rationale, as well.

As for at what point I think the other team should consider the opposing offense trying to score disrespectful, if you haven't bothered to pay attention to anything I've said elsewhere in the thread, I'm certainly not going to take the trouble to reiterate it for you.

For the record, too, you sidestepped my question to type that scathingly sarcastic request for clarification.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Social pressure exists, and it affects they way people in a social group act--some more than others. That fact is not relevant to the question of whether or not it's okay for an offense to continue to try to score. That it might have relevance elsewhere is not at issue.

On the contrary, social pressure is very relevant in the NFL.

Because of social pressure, coaching staffs do not intentionally attempt to injure their opponent's star quarterback, or star pass rusher, or star receiver.

Consider how easily a coach could substitute a scrub defensive lineman early in the game and instruct him to take out the opponent quarterback with a cheap shot to the knees. It may lead to a 15 yard personal foul penalty and the ejection of said scrub linemen, but without a quarterback, the opposing team will suffer far worse throughout the game.

Similarly, there seems to be a social pressure against running up scores. You may not like this particular pressure, but you can't deny its existence. And as a representative of the NFL, Belichik is obligated to consider it.

Let me take a different tack, since repeatedly stating the same thing over and over doesn't appear to be convincing many. Can someone explain to me how it is not disrespectful for an offense to decide it needs to stop trying to do its job because to continue to give its best effort would be too humiliating to the other side?

The answer is simple, and I've been repeating it ad nauseum: Perception.

NFL coaches and players seem to perceive that piling on points is classless and disrespectful.

You may dislike this opinion, and you can certainly make legitimate arguments against it. However, nothing you do will change the reality that this perception exists.

That's the very definition of patronizing and disrespectful in my book. I've been in that exact situation on a football field and very nearly was removed from the game because of how I reacted to it.

You just made my point. In your book.

Your book on piling on points and disrespectful behavior is likely very different from the NFL's book on piling on points and disrespectful behavior.

 

[D-TownRadio]

I don't see anything wrong with hurting the opposing team. It is part of the sport. These guys know what they are getting into when they sign that contract and thats that. I am sick of this wussy sport that we watch every sunday a empty shell of what used tp be a great sport. Anytime someone breaks a nial on the field a rule is made up the next year to stop it from happening. Why don't ya throw some flags on them and have a speed limit so they don't tear anything. Jesus what is this league comming to? I remember watching knock down drag out games and saying wow what a hit or he will feel that tomorrow or my fav he just knocked his D into his watch pocket. Now when I see someone get hit or something I just think back em up or give em the first. I also think if anyone is going to be hit with a cheap shot I couldn't think of anyone better then Tom Shady...? Wait I just did, How about bill himself? I mean if someone where to tackle a N.E. player out of bounds causing both players to come crashing down on Bill... Don't worry I am sure that Bob would pay to replace Bill's cammera if god for bid anything were to happen to it.

 

[Idgit]

On the contrary, social pressure is very relevant in the NFL.

Because of social pressure, coaching staffs do not intentionally attempt to injure their opponent's star quarterback, or star pass rusher, or star receiver.

Consider how easily a coach could substitute a scrub defensive lineman early in the game and instruct him to take out the opponent quarterback with a cheap shot to the knees. It may lead to a 15 yard personal foul penalty and the ejection of said scrub linemen, but without a quarterback, the opposing team will suffer far worse throughout the game.

Similarly, there seems to be a social pressure against running up scores. You may not like this particular pressure, but you can't deny its existence. And as a representative of the NFL, Belichik is obligated to consider it.

I don't deny the existence of social pressure. I deny its relevance to the appropriateness or inappropriateness of continuing to score regardless of the circumstance.

As for your example, I don't think it's social pressure that keeps coaches from targeting star players with scrubs. The league has more meaningful pressure that can be brought to bear to make sure that sort of behavior does not happen or go unpunished.

The answer is simple, and I've been repeating it ad nauseum: Perception.

NFL coaches and players seem to perceive that piling on points is classless and disrespectful.

You may dislike this opinion, and you can certainly make legitimate arguments against it. However, nothing you do will change the reality that this perception exists.

I don't think that most players or coaches perceive continuing to attempt to score to be classless or disrespectful. Publicly, anyway, most that I've hear have said that it's a non-issue. There may be competing perceptions out there, in which case neither position is validated, or both are invalidated. Take your pick. In any event, it'll still be illegal to target someone after a whistle. If we're targeting players between the whistle, that's what makes the games interesting in the first place.

You just made my point. In your book.

Your book on piling on points and disrespectful behavior is likely very different from the NFL's book on piling on points and disrespectful behavior.

I will admit that I'm partial to my own book. I've yet to see that it's that different from the NFL's. I think what goes on instead is that people and teams resent the Pats for a variety of good and unrelated reasons, and they're misplacing their aggressions by focusing on the team's play on the field.

The flip side could be true, though. I can't imagine a circumstance where I wouldn't root for a team to put up another 7 on Joe Gibbs and the Skins. I was irritated when the Pats pulled Cassell.

 

[TVMan]

I'm wondering WHY our players were so hesitant to hit Brady...almost everytime that they were on him, they were pulling up....did the refs warn us about hits on him? Did the NFL?

I noticed that as well. Several times he curled up in the fetal position and was barely even touched.

 

[03EBZ06]

how many would be arguing with me if the game were 52-7, Dallas beating Washington at home on a couple of deep passes late in the 4th quarter.

I would feel same way as I feel about patsies...wrong. Adding insult to injury diminishes their character. The game was over by mid 4th quarter and there was nothing to be gained by keeping starters on the field, throwing for 4th down, and keep throwing the ball. A complete classless act. Bob Sanders speaking aloud of what others are saying privately.

 

[Doomsday101]

dooms, you sure are spending a lot of time defending the pats. Makes one think you are a fan....

No I just get tired of whinny fans that sit here and constantly complain. I can promise you if Dallas puts a major thumping on Philly not a sole is going to complain about it. People find reasons to hate on other teams that are successful and as Cowboy fans we should know this better than anyone since most have complained about the Cowboys for most of this franchise history, yet when those fans make these noises we blow them off as jealous but we do the same

 

[Rack]

No I just get tired of whinny fans that sit here and constantly complain. I can promise you if Dallas puts a major thumping on Philly not a sole is going to complain about it. People find reasons to hate on other teams that are successful and as Cowboy fans we should know this better than anyone since most have complained about the Cowboys for most of this franchise history, yet when those fans make these noises we blow them off as jealous but we do the same

A "major thumping" and running up the score are not the same thing.

Have you not figured out the difference yet?

 

[Doomsday101]

A "major thumping" and running up the score are not the same thing.

Have you not figured out the difference yet?

Brady was out of the skins game after the 1st drive of the 4th qrt his backup came in with over 8 min in the game. Moss came out as well and the starting RB. Get over it if the skins can't play better than they did they deserve the butt kicking they took. In the meantime I did not see the skins starters coming out of the game.

 

[Rack]

Brady was out of the skins game after the 1st drive of the 4th qrt his backup came in with over 8 min in the game. Moss came out as well and the starting RB. Get over it if the skins can't play better than they did they deserve the butt kicking they took. In the meantime I did not see the skins starters coming out of the game.

So the winning team can only take out it's starters after the losing team takes out it's starters?




You are flat out wrong about this. And the fact that players and former coaches are starting to comment negatively about this proves as much.


Are you man enough to jump off your high horse and admit you're wrong?

I doubt it.

 

[Doomsday101]

So the winning team can only take out it's starters after the losing team takes out it's starters?




You are flat out wrong about this. And the fact that players and former coaches are starting to comment negatively about this proves as much.


Are you man enough to jump off your high horse and admit you're wrong?

I doubt it.

I'm wrong because you say so? Get over yourself. I don't care if you agree with me or not I don't have an issue with a team running up the score I'm more concerned why my team just allowed another team to do it. You want to whine about this fine you can do it all day long it is no skin off my backside. By the way I did not see anyone complain when Aikman hit Harper in the 4th qrt on a long bomb with the game well in hand against Buffalo in the SB.

 

[Idgit]

I would feel same way as I feel about patsies...wrong. Adding insult to injury diminishes their character. The game was over by mid 4th quarter and there was nothing to be gained by keeping starters on the field, throwing for 4th down, and keep throwing the ball. A complete classless act. Bob Sanders speaking aloud of what others are saying privately.

Well, let's just hope you have a chance to prove yourself on that point. Myself, I'd be jumping up and down for each touchdown, and I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one on the board doing so.

 

[Vtwin]

I don't look at as offending the Pats who cares if they are offended or not. What I'm saying if I see a guy talking about taking out my QB and I don't care what his reason is I'm going to start looking at their QB in the same regard. 2 way street don't think 1 team can go out and intentionally take out one teams QB and not expect the same from the other team. As I said before I see this as nothing more than tough talk just as we see in boxing before a fight. I doubt Brady or Manning is worried about what Sanders had to say.

Let's apply the same logic to this situation as the Pat's apologists apply in defense of their classless behavior.If the Pat's don't want to put there QB in jeopardy maybe they should look at themselves and ponder as to what it is THEY need to do to accomplish that goal.There's a two way street for you.