News: Bob Sturm: Why I was so wrong about Cowboys coach Jason Garrett

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Would you rather the actual rankings/facts?

2012=31 out of 32 terrible
2013=24 out of 32 poor
2014=2 out of 32 Great

FACTS are stubborn things.

You still conflate the two. I'll just assume its yards. You still have yet to make a coherent argument. So the team improved and it's not to the head coaches credit? Non sequitor much?

This argument is old. I believe the response has always been about Garrett's drafts over the past 5 years building the foundation for the running game. There should also be a discussion of how plays were called before ie 2 plays sent in. The running game performance in the second half of 2013 also needs to be considered with the interior of Leary Fred and Bern started to gell.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/schedule/_/name/dal/year/2013

Seems important to you to try and resurrect the uncertainty of last season. It's actually a very good sign that you lack for anything new as hard as you try.

 

[rpntex]

Putting together that offensive line is just how the draft fell. We took best players available. We didn't plan to build it.

The draft "fell"? That's utterly laughable. Tyron Smith, I grant you - the case could be made that he was the BPA when he was taken. How can anyone say that Travis Frederick "fell to them", when just about everybody said he would have still, been available in the 2nd, or even the 3rd round? Zack Martin, while not considered a big reach as Fred was, wasn't a slam-dunk BPA. CJ Mosely (LB), and a pair of safeties (Clinton-Dix, and Calvin Pryor), were three of the next four picks after Martin, and all four met a definite need the Cowboys had. Some would argue that S and LB were a bigger need than OG at that point.

It should be obvious to anyone that the building of the offensive line was done by design, and not just luck-of-the-draw. While it can't be proven that Garrett was the impetus behind this focus in draft philosophy, there is no denying that the timing of it coincided with his first draft as a head coach.

 

[CCBoy]

LOL..............he doesnt like Garrett so he cant raise children? Wow, this is getting good. LOL

Cocky doesn't form smart as well...

 

[CCBoy]

Its one drive there abouts buddy. Spin it any way you want. Having the ball less, means less plays, with means less yards. Pretty simple formula.

Why dont you go find some Tom Brady stat that defies that. LOL

Simple fact, if the Dez catch had been called complete, the Cowboys would have been up against a previously beaten Seattle Seahawks in the NFC Championship game.

Now prove the sky is falling again with a series of attempts at skirting the end, instead of up field.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Felix was a Garrett pick. Wade wanted Chris Johnson but Garrett was given the call. In any event, draft misses happen and I don't pin that on JG. The bigger issue is that we wanted a RB there in the first place considering we just signed MBIII to a big money extension and, according to many here, we didn't have the OL to support an effective running game.

not sure where the notion that wade wanted chris Johnson comes from. and without an OL no running game can be effective. with that said, I thought it was stupid to pick a RB in the first round given as you said we just gave MB3 a big contract. that was waste of a first round pickeven if jones would have worked out.

but with that said, that goes against what cowboyroy has been saying. garrett picking Jones (yes bad RB) would indicate he wanted to run the ball and was looking for two backs to attack the offense.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The draft "fell"? That's utterly laughable. Tyron Smith, I grant you - the case could be made that he was the BPA when he was taken. How can anyone say that Travis Frederick "fell to them", when just about everybody said he would have still, been available in the 2nd, or even the 3rd round? Zack Martin, while not considered a big reach as Fred was, wasn't a slam-dunk BPA. CJ Mosely (LB), and a pair of safeties (Clinton-Dix, and Calvin Pryor), were three of the next four picks after Martin, and all four met a definite need the Cowboys had. Some would argue that S and LB were a bigger need than OG at that point.

It should be obvious to anyone that the building of the offensive line was done by design, and not just luck-of-the-draw. While it can't be proven that Garrett was the impetus behind this focus in draft philosophy, there is no denying that the timing of it coincided with his first draft as a head coach.

according to this kid. it was all mcclay. he made the picks in a vaccum, well jerry jones had input from tony romo. those are his facts you can take to the bank

 

[CATCH17]

The draft "fell"? That's utterly laughable. Tyron Smith, I grant you - the case could be made that he was the BPA when he was taken. How can anyone say that Travis Frederick "fell to them", when just about everybody said he would have still, been available in the 2nd, or even the 3rd round? Zack Martin, while not considered a big reach as Fred was, wasn't a slam-dunk BPA. CJ Mosely (LB), and a pair of safeties (Clinton-Dix, and Calvin Pryor), were three of the next four picks after Martin, and all four met a definite need the Cowboys had. Some would argue that S and LB were a bigger need than OG at that point.

It should be obvious to anyone that the building of the offensive line was done by design, and not just luck-of-the-draw. While it can't be proven that Garrett was the impetus behind this focus in draft philosophy, there is no denying that the timing of it coincided with his first draft as a head coach.

We traded back for Frederick when all of our other options were gone.

With Martin we literally told another player we were about to draft him. Martin was a fall back as well.


The Cowboys wanted defense... They ended up with a Center and a Guard.

 

[mattjames2010]

Felix was a Garrett pick. Wade wanted Chris Johnson but Garrett was given the call. In any event, draft misses happen and I don't pin that on JG. The bigger issue is that we wanted a RB there in the first place considering we just signed MBIII to a big money extension and, according to many here, we didn't have the OL to support an effective running game.

Is there a source that Jones was a Garrett pick? Or was it just Garrett saying "I like Felix Jones"?

And it was the 08 draft, it is not surprising we had RBs on the board at that time due to how deep the RB class was that year. We were also trying to replace Julius Jones and begin implementing that "three headed monster". I never agreed with that, but Felix Jones was a good role player; he was good in 2009 and 2010. On paper, Barber was the bruiser and Jones was the burst. I understand what they were doing at least, Barber just never deserved the contract he got and that's on Jones and no one else

 

[mattjames2010]

We traded back for Frederick when all of our other options were gone.

With Martin we literally told another player we were about to draft him. Martin was a fall back as well.


The Cowboys wanted defense... They ended up with a Center and a Guard.

Okay wait, what is your argument here? That because we didn't have every offensive lineman in the draft first on our draft board, rebuilding the offensive line was nothing but luck? No, the offensive lineman we drafted were still ranked high, We valued Frederick more than any other team in the league.

I'm not sure where you're going with what you said.

 

[CATCH17]

Okay wait, what is your argument here? That because we didn't have every offensive lineman in the draft first on our draft board, rebuilding the offensive line was nothing but luck? No, the offensive lineman we drafted were still ranked high, We valued Frederick more than any other team in the league.

I'm not sure where you're going with what you said.

I get that they were ranked high.

But you guys say that rebuilding the Oline was this big priority and we planned it this way..

It wasn't some master genius plan. The defensive players we wanted weren't there so we settled for a center and guard.

 

[waving monkey]

So if

I get that they were ranked high.

But you guys say that rebuilding the Oline was this big priority and we planned it this way..

It wasn't some master genius plan. The defensive players we wanted weren't there so we settled for a center and guard.

So if you decide rebuild a position but the player doesn't fall to you you should do what?
[1] LET THE DRAFT COME TO YOU or
[2] trade up to get that player or
[3] what?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

We traded back for Frederick when all of our other options were gone.

With Martin we literally told another player we were about to draft him. Martin was a fall back as well.


The Cowboys wanted defense... They ended up with a Center and a Guard.

and you know all of this as a fact because you were in the draft room and worked with mcclay to set up the board!

glad we have a real insider on our board!

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

We traded back for Frederick when all of our other options were gone.

With Martin we literally told another player we were about to draft him. Martin was a fall back as well.


The Cowboys wanted defense... They ended up with a Center and a Guard.

we didn't trade back for Fredrick. we traded back because the GM thought there was a good offer on the table and having gone through various scenarios and players they liked, they thought one of them would fall to them at the spot. They picked Fredrick because cowboys since mcclay and garrett have started to value OL men and rank them accordingly compared to years past when they never highly valued OL men and never picked one in the first round.

we wanted Shazier, that's not a mystery. when he went to Pittsburgh we picked the next highest player ranked on our board, which was martin.

every team evaluates and sets up their board and picks accordingly.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I get that they were ranked high.

But you guys say that rebuilding the Oline was this big priority and we planned it this way..

It wasn't some master genius plan. The defensive players we wanted weren't there so we settled for a center and guard.

rebuilding the OL was a priority. just like rebuilding the DL and the LB group.

we didn't settle for a guard or center. we picked the players that we ranked high on the board, based on talent, need, system.

 

[CATCH17]

So if

So if you decide rebuild a position but the player doesn't fall to you you should do what?
[1] LET THE DRAFT COME TO YOU or
[2] trade up to get that player or
[3] what?

It's ok guys.

We hit on our fall backs mightily. We didn't hope or plan to rebuild the OL but when our defensive players weren't there to choose we settled for the highest ranked players on our board and they happened to be a center and a guard.


Finally the team got cornered into what the fans had been begging them to do for years which is rebuild that crap OL.

 

[Doomsday101]

It's ok guys.

We hit on our fall backs mightily. We didn't hope or plan to rebuild the OL but when our defensive players weren't there to choose we settled for the highest ranked players on our board and they happened to be a center and a guard.


Finally the team got cornered into what the fans had been begging them to do for years which is rebuild that crap OL.

So either way DL or OL was going to be addressed both areas that needed upgrading. OL looks to be in place and Cowboys have done as much as possible to address the DL

 

[waving monkey]

It's ok guys.

We hit on our fall backs mightily. We didn't hope or plan to rebuild the OL but when our defensive players weren't there to choose we settled for the highest ranked players on our board and they happened to be a center and a guard.


Finally the team got cornered into what the fans had been begging them to do for years which is rebuild that crap OL.

The behavior of Red's action demonstrate your wrong. We begin to let old over paid OL players go.
Then we begin drafting replacements. TSmith first then after things didn't fall for us we dropped
down and picked up Tbeard. Next we wanted a rusher the draft didn't fall that way so we correctly
took Martin. We did plan on rebuilding and some good ones fall to us.

Your damning by faint praise is well want it is.

 

[CATCH17]

The behavior of Red's action demonstrate your wrong. We begin to let old over paid OL players go.
Then we begin drafting replacements. TSmith first then after things didn't fall for us we dropped
down and picked up Tbeard. Next we wanted a rusher the draft didn't fall that way so we correctly
took Martin. We did plan on rebuilding and some good ones fall to us.

Your damning by faint praise is well want it is.

Im sure the Cowboys plan on rebuilding every position.

That is basically what you're saying.

We wanted defenders.. They didn't fall.. So we moved on to our backup plans.

Tyron Smith was a no brainer btw.. If you don't have a quality Left Tackle then good luck. Even Jerry understood that.

 

[Idgit]

Can we please just dispense with this absurd notion that the Cowboys accidentally rebuilt their OL?

The fact that there were higher rated players at other positions on our board each of the last three drafts who other teams picked is completely irrelevant. We drafted who we drafted and get the and or the credit for those picks. End of story.

 

[CowboyRoy]

You still conflate the two. I'll just assume its yards. You still have yet to make a coherent argument. So the team improved and it's not to the head coaches credit? Non sequitor much?

This argument is old. I believe the response has always been about Garrett's drafts over the past 5 years building the foundation for the running game. There should also be a discussion of how plays were called before ie 2 plays sent in. The running game performance in the second half of 2013 also needs to be considered with the interior of Leary Fred and Bern started to gell.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/schedule/_/name/dal/year/2013

Seems important to you to try and resurrect the uncertainty of last season. It's actually a very good sign that you lack for anything new as hard as you try.

Look pal, this isnt rocket science here. My theory is based on one conclusion and one conclusion only. That a strong running game CAN help a team in many ways. Can you find some stat somewhere at some point where a strong running game didn't help out a QB or a team? Sure you can. But it sure helped Romo and the Cowboys last year.

And no, I Im not going to give Garrett much credit for the great RG from last year. Some? Sure. He gets some. But we saw Garrett run the offense and NOT run the ball successfully most of his tenure in control of the Offense.

And the great run games helps out in several ways, not just time of possession. But if you don't get that or want to get it, then no problem. I have no interest in debating further. This thread is dead.