News: Bob Sturm: Why I was so wrong about Cowboys coach Jason Garrett

[Primetime42]

Look pal, this isnt rocket science here. My theory is based on one conclusion and one conclusion only. That a strong running game CAN help a team in many ways. Can you find some stat somewhere at some point where a strong running game didn't help out a QB or a team? Sure you can. But it sure helped Romo and the Cowboys last year.

And no, I Im not going to give Garrett much credit for the great RG from last year. Some? Sure. He gets some. But we saw Garrett run the offense and NOT run the ball successfully most of his tenure in control of the Offense.

And the great run games helps out in several ways, not just time of possession. But if you don't get that or want to get it, then no problem. I have no interest in debating further. This thread is dead.

Didn't Buffalo lead the league in rushing in 2013?

edit: Nope, they were #2. Eagles were #1. Still...

 

[CowboyRoy]

Can we please just dispense with this absurd notion that the Cowboys accidentally rebuilt their OL?

The fact that there were higher rated players at other positions on our board each of the last three drafts who other teams picked is completely irrelevant. We drafted who we drafted and get the and or the credit for those picks. End of story.

Why is Jones or Garrett or Will McClay, or anyone getting credit for trying to rebuild the Oline? Any fool could see that the Oline needed new players. So they went out and got new players. Much of this team needed rebuilding, it will always need rebuilding. All teams retool and rebuild and they all try to rebuild the Oline. This is not some Cowboy ONLY revelation.

Where the credit goes is on the actual drafting of the individual players and the research to determine who the good Olineman were, and when to pick them where they could have success.

Now if you are going to tell me that Garrett gets the most credit for that, then I'm going to laugh. Jerry Jones, Stephen Jones, and Will McClay run the draft and FA for the Cowboys. Player acquisition. That is a fact in most organizations and certainly more so with the Cowboys. Garrett is NOT a Chip Kelly type head coach.

Garrett has had one very good year as a walk around head coach. He was NOT a good OC, and was not a good HC/OC. And it definitely took him 8 years to learn how to properly coach in the big leagues. So its one year, and Garrett did a good walk around job. Lets hope he keeps it up.

Any more accolades then that over one good year is nothing more than overzealous Garrett reaching.

 

[Primetime42]

Why is Jones or Garrett or Will McClay, or anyone getting credit for trying to rebuild the Oline? Any fool could see that the Oline needed new players. So they went out and got new players. Much of this team needed rebuilding, it will always need rebuilding. All teams retool and rebuild and they all try to rebuild the Oline. This is not some Cowboy ONLY revelation.

Where the credit goes is on the actual drafting of the individual players and the research to determine who the good Olineman were, and when to pick them where they could have success.

Now if you are going to tell me that Garrett gets the most credit for that, then I'm going to laugh. Jerry Jones, Stephen Jones, and Will McClay run the draft and FA for the Cowboys. Player acquisition. That is a fact in most organizations and certainly more so with the Cowboys. Garrett is NOT a Chip Kelly type head coach.

Garrett has had one very good year as a walk around head coach. He was NOT a good OC, and was not a good HC/OC. And it definitely took him 8 years to learn how to properly coach in the big leagues. So its one year, and Garrett did a good walk around job. Lets hope he keeps it up.

Any more accolades then that over one good year is nothing more than overzealous Garrett reaching.

Why is it so hard to accept that all facets of the organization work together and that the head coach is a major part of that?

 

[CowboyRoy]

Didn't Buffalo lead the league in rushing in 2013?

edit: Nope, they were #2. Eagles were #1. Still...

Correct...........#2

 

[CowboyRoy]

Why is it so hard to accept that all facets of the organization work together and that the head coach is a major part of that?

Not all organization are the same. Very different in what kind of controls the head coach has. And no, he is NOT a big part of every little facet of the team. Some things more than others.

To simply say that all head coaches get credit for everything is a lazy way of looking at it. The term.............."everything goes back to the head coach" is simply incorrect.

Just as incorrect as someone saying that everything about the 8-8 seasons were Garretts fault. They weren't.

Maybe if Jones has let Garrett pick his Coordinators from the beginning, this might have happened quicker. If McClay had been here in the Wade years, there would have been better players when Garrett began. If Jones has insisted Garrett be a walk around coach from day one, that might have made a difference. We will never know.

 

[Seven]

Why is Jones or Garrett or Will McClay, or anyone getting credit for trying to rebuild the Oline? Any fool could see that the Oline needed new players. So they went out and got new players. Much of this team needed rebuilding, it will always need rebuilding. All teams retool and rebuild and they all try to rebuild the Oline. This is not some Cowboy ONLY revelation.

Where the credit goes is on the actual drafting of the individual players and the research to determine who the good Olineman were, and when to pick them where they could have success.

Now if you are going to tell me that Garrett gets the most credit for that, then I'm going to laugh. Jerry Jones, Stephen Jones, and Will McClay run the draft and FA for the Cowboys. Player acquisition. That is a fact in most organizations and certainly more so with the Cowboys. Garrett is NOT a Chip Kelly type head coach.

Garrett has had one very good year as a walk around head coach. He was NOT a good OC, and was not a good HC/OC. And it definitely took him 8 years to learn how to properly coach in the big leagues. So its one year, and Garrett did a good walk around job. Lets hope he keeps it up.

Any more accolades then that over one good year is nothing more than overzealous Garrett reaching.

Wrong.

IF this was the case you'd have your Johnny Football jersey..............

 

[CowboyRoy]

Wrong.

IF this was the case you'd have your Johnny Football jersey..............

I lost ya...............

 

[Dodger12]

not sure where the notion that wade wanted chris Johnson comes from.

Is there a source that Jones was a Garrett pick? Or was it just Garrett saying "I like Felix Jones"?

It was reported and also discussed here I believe. I'll have to try and dig it up but it was a while ago. Maybe even something Wade said in an interview but Jerry defered to Garrett on which one he wanted and Garrett paicked Felix.

 

[khiladi]

Got to love these misplaced analogies with Jimmy and Garrett. Even if we assume whatever is true with Shula, the difference is, the Garrett supporters were defending his control of the offense no matter what. He was the OC.

And they blamed everything but Garrett on his play-calling, from Romo changing plays to Dez not knowing his routes. In fact, last year they were ready to blame the defense and Jerry's consistent meddling.

BTW, the guy that built this line was Callahan. It didn't take much but a year for Callahan to effectively signal Jerry to take Garrett's hands off the offense and make him see the light a new play-caller was needed.

 

[Seven]

I lost ya...............

Jerry Jones isn't 'running' the draft.

That's why it's been so successful the last several years.

That's why Dallas doesn't have Manziel and/or other seat filling athlete's that aren't worth a lick.

He drafts for marketing and you don't put a winning product on the field that way.

His input is duly noted and the sane group moves forward.

 

[khiladi]

The draft "fell"? That's utterly laughable. Tyron Smith, I grant you - the case could be made that he was the BPA when he was taken. How can anyone say that Travis Frederick "fell to them", when just about everybody said he would have still, been available in the 2nd, or even the 3rd round? Zack Martin, while not considered a big reach as Fred was, wasn't a slam-dunk BPA. CJ Mosely (LB), and a pair of safeties (Clinton-Dix, and Calvin Pryor), were three of the next four picks after Martin, and all four met a definite need the Cowboys had. Some would argue that S and LB were a bigger need than OG at that point.

It should be obvious to anyone that the building of the offensive line was done by design, and not just luck-of-the-draw. While it can't be proven that Garrett was the impetus behind this focus in draft philosophy, there is no denying that the timing of it coincided with his first draft as a head coach.

Completely wrong, among them Dallas always drafts BPA.

The very next year they drafted Smith, they went ahead and got Claiborne and leveraged a few players to get him. Even Jason Garrett admitted that the year of Claiborne, they would be drafting BPA and were forced to draft via 'need' the year before, thought again, it could legitimately be argued that was Smith anyways.

The year they drafted Frederik, they were slotted to take Sharif Floyd, and Stephen Jones admitted it. In fact, Stephen confirmed the 'chaos' in the war room. Jerry over-ruled last minute and took Frederik, who was worked out by Callahan. And our DC didn't want Floyd, meaning he was the impetus in rejecting him. Plus, Dallas the last two years has admitted holes on defense even last year they did, Jerry stating 3 defensive players were slotted before Zach and they would have taken one of them, provided they weren't picked. He said this right after the draft, before Zach set the world on fire.

They fired Rob Ryan and when Garrett talked about it, he said explicitly that they needed to generate more TOs to give the offense more opportunities. They were looking at defense.

To argue that the building of this OL was done by design, is belied by pretty much everything. Jason Garrett brought Houck here and they ran a power-blocking scheme. They drafted big, hefty guys and followed that very same style, Garrett always coached with. It was only with Callahan coming here that they revamped the line to smaller, shiftier guards based on his zone-blocking schemes. And Callahan and Garrett were feuding two seasons ago and Callahan wanted to leave before last season.

Wade in fact wanted Solari, a zone-blocking guy...

 

[khiladi]

Im sure the Cowboys plan on rebuilding every position.

That is basically what you're saying.

We wanted defenders.. They didn't fall.. So we moved on to our backup plans.

Tyron Smith was a no brainer btw.. If you don't have a quality Left Tackle then good luck. Even Jerry understood that.

It's why he paid so much money for Flozell. And he left and needed somebody new to fill the role. There was absolutely NOTHING unique in Dallas and Jerry going that route when the opportunity afforded it.

 

[khiladi]

BTW, Stephen Jones, Larry Lacewell and Jim Garrett have been in Jerry's ears forever. The Garrett family can't be separated from the terrible personnel decisions for the last 20 plus years. Jim Garrett for example was one of the biggest pushers of Drew Henson. Only when Parcells came, did these guy bounce but as soon as he left, they came back in the picture.

The ONLY reason we managed to stay afloat was because of Romo. Without him, it would have been miserable. And now the Jones admit that they didn't give him what he needed until recently. When Jerry signed Romo to the new deal, he even stated he would be involved in the game-planning and take on more of a role in the offense. When Linehan was brought here, he alluded to the special relationship they would have. In fact, after training camp that was the biggest thing he high-lighted, while everybody else was talking about their crap defense.

The idea that Jerry wanted Manziel was nothing but media-driven nonsense. Over and over again, Jerry has denied it and he is the one that gave Romo such a huge long-term contract that many of the people on this forum were saying was ridiculous considering his health. If anybody gushes over Romo, it's Jerry. There is no bigger fan.

 

[khiladi]

It was reported and also discussed here I believe. I'll have to try and dig it up but it was a while ago. Maybe even something Wade said in an interview but Jerry defered to Garrett on which one he wanted and Garrett paicked Felix.

Wade wanted Chris Johnson.

http://cowboysblog.***BANNED-URL***/2010/10/jerry-jones-on-why-he-took-fel.html/

On why Cowboys passed up on Chris Johnson in the 2008 draft: Well, his speed was the best that we had ever seen for a running back, ever. I must say that Wade was really on the table, he really liked him.

 

[Dodger12]

Wade wanted Chris Johnson.

http://cowboysblog.***BANNED-URL***/2010/10/jerry-jones-on-why-he-took-fel.html/

Thank you Khaladi. I was looking high and low for that article. Also, for anyone interested, check out the Hard Knocks episodes from the season Felix was drafted. They were taping in the war room when Jerry turned to Garrett and gave him the option of which RB he wanted and Garrett picked Felix (at least that's my recollection). I'll try and dig it up later when I have more time if it's on the net..........

 

[waving monkey]

Im sure the Cowboys plan on rebuilding every position.

That is basically what you're saying.

We wanted defenders.. They didn't fall.. So we moved on to our backup plans.

Tyron Smith was a no brainer btw.. If you don't have a quality Left Tackle then good luck. Even Jerry understood that.

There was some who were crying that TSmith was takin too high. In the media and on this very board.
A no brainer not to everyone, a no brainer to the staff.
Easy to say now buts thats not the real overall view.
Yes they have been in a rebuilding mode since Red became head coach .

 

[Tommy]

Thank you Khaladi. I was looking high and low for that article. Also, for anyone interested, check out the Hard Knocks episodes from the season Felix was drafted. They were taping in the war room when Jerry turned to Garrett and gave him the option of which RB he wanted and Garrett picked Felix (at least that's my recollection). I'll try and dig it up later when I have more time if it's on the net..........

Or you could just try and get over it.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

When you try to distill it down to draft position/charts, you are completely ignoring the other side of what goes on. Fact is they have drafted and developed three All Pro linemen in 4 years. Garrett has repeated ad nauseum in his press conferences about where the game is won and balance on offense.

 

[Dodger12]

Or you could just try and get over it.

There's nothing to get over. Someone asked me for a source and it was provided. Follow along and learn. These little tidbits should help you formulate an informed and educated opinion.

 

[CowboyRoy]

BTW, Stephen Jones, Larry Lacewell and Jim Garrett have been in Jerry's ears forever. The Garrett family can't be separated from the terrible personnel decisions for the last 20 plus years. Jim Garrett for example was one of the biggest pushers of Drew Henson. Only when Parcells came, did these guy bounce but as soon as he left, they came back in the picture.

The ONLY reason we managed to stay afloat was because of Romo. Without him, it would have been miserable. And now the Jones admit that they didn't give him what he needed until recently. When Jerry signed Romo to the new deal, he even stated he would be involved in the game-planning and take on more of a role in the offense. When Linehan was brought here, he alluded to the special relationship they would have. In fact, after training camp that was the biggest thing he high-lighted, while everybody else was talking about their crap defense.

The idea that Jerry wanted Manziel was nothing but media-driven nonsense. Over and over again, Jerry has denied it and he is the one that gave Romo such a huge long-term contract that many of the people on this forum were saying was ridiculous considering his health. If anybody gushes over Romo, it's Jerry. There is no bigger fan.

Jerry said himself that he wanted Manziel.

Lets just put it this way..................

The entire organization is better off if:

1. The draft and FA is better off if its left to the Will Clay and Stephen Jones.
2. The team is better off if the majority of the on field coaching and game day management is kept to the coordinators.
3. Garrett is allowed to focus on ONLY being a walk around head coach.

These are the three major factors that have contributed to the talent on the team, and a better all around coached product on the field.