BP vs WP

[Dodger12]

You mean it depends on the positioning in the draft? You do realize over-ruling on the first pick in the draft at number 5 is a lot different than over-ruling on a second or third rounder.

I have no problem with that and might even buy the theory about Parcells being over ruled, especially in the first round. As a matter of fact, I'd want a counter argument to Jones and/or BP, especially on Day 1. But when some people claim that they "think" that a lesser player or questionable pick was Parcells while a solid pick(s), even on day two, was Ireland, Jerry, etc. is absurd.

 

[lonestar6]

So much BP hate here, judging by the concerted effort at stripping BP of any credit he had in building this team. I for one am thankful for the years he spent here, and still believe most any other coach we could have gotten at the time would have resulted in continued mediocrity up until today (if anything, no BP would have meant no Payton which would have meant no Romo).

Maybe his time was up, but this was going to be a good team this year regardless of who was coaching it and now I'm starting to see Wade getting more credit that I think he deserves.

 

[Doomsday101]

So much BP hate here, judging by the concerted effort at stripping BP of any credit he had in building this team. I for one am thankful for the years he spent here, and still believe most any other coach we could have gotten at the time would have resulted in continued mediocrity up until today (if anything, no BP would have meant no Payton which would have meant no Romo).

Maybe his time was up, but this was going to be a good team this year regardless of who was coaching it and now I'm starting to see Wade getting more credit that I think he deserves.

I agree I think BP deserves credit for this teams rise but as I have seen in other post many people are involved and none more than Jerry Jones he is still the man and nothing is done without Jerry giving the a ok. BP in my view played a big role as did others.

 

[Dodger12]

BP did not bring in lacewell I know it sounds good and fits your argument but BP was not the one who brought in Ireland.

As you see this was dated back to 2005 and Ireland had already been with the organizations for 4 years which would have been 2001 BP did not hire in until 2003.

Good find Dooms. But I also recall Ireland stating that BP gave him a blueprint for the type of player(s) he was looking for. Thus, Tank was taken off the board. I don't think we'd consistantly bring in questionable character guys like Ross, Larrimore, Bryant, Willie Blade, etc. under Parcells tenure, let alone spend a first day pick on them.

 

[superpunk]

 

[Doomsday101]

Good find Dooms. But I also recall Ireland stating that BP gave him a blueprint for the type of player(s) he was looking for. Thus, Tank was taken off the board. I don't think we'd consistantly bring in questionable character guys like Ross, Larrimore, Bryant, Willie Blade, etc. under Parcells tenure, let alone spend a first day pick on them.

The HC telling the head of scouting what kind of players he was looking for to help fit his system? Sound about right but that is a bit different than saying he groomed him or hired him. Ireland was already on hand and I would think any scout would look to find players who are the type of players the coach is looking for.

 

[cml750]

(if anything, no BP would have meant no Payton which would have meant no Romo).

Okay. I'll give you that. BP did a good job in bringing in Payton. I also thank Payton for 2 things. 1) Convincing BP and crew to sign Romo and 2) Whipping the Cowboys last year as the Saints coach which I believe was the start of getting Big Bill out of here!!

 

[D-TownRadio]

Hey I am not trying to bash bill I am just saying he is better at spotting talent then coaching. His style of play call and coaching are all wrong for todays football.

 

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Geez, why is Eli talking about his team mates like that for?

 

[chinch]

i'm not saying he physically signed and brought him here... i'm saying he groomed him.... mentored him significantly.

again if you left ireland to jerruh and lacewell (and campo or whomever) you guys would be ripping him up and down

BP did not bring in lacewell I know it sounds good and fits your argument but BP was not the one who brought in Ireland.

 

[CowboyChris]

I refuse to take part in any BP/WP discussions.

Howerver, a far more intriguing question is:

If Jerry Jones would have hired Wade Phillips in 2003, would we be this far along?

No.... and we wouldnt have Romo either.

 

[khiladi]

Good find Dooms. But I also recall Ireland stating that BP gave him a blueprint for the type of player(s) he was looking for. Thus, Tank was taken off the board. I don't think we'd consistantly bring in questionable character guys like Ross, Larrimore, Bryant, Willie Blade, etc. under Parcells tenure, let alone spend a first day pick on them.

If that is the case why did we not draft Randy Moss? And JJ had Cavlin Hill in place before Parcells already came on board.

 

[Dodger12]

If that is the case why did we not draft Randy Moss? And JJ had Cavlin Hill in place before Parcells already came on board.

And what's your point? That we didn't draft Moss so we stayed away from players with character issues? The Irvin situation was the only reason we passed on Moss. Having Moss on the team, with Irvin as a potental mentor, was too much heat even for Jerry.

 

[khiladi]

And what's your point? That we didn't draft Moss so we stayed away from players with character issues? The Irvin situation was the only reason we passed on Moss. Having Moss on the team, with Irvin as a potental mentor, was too much heat even for Jerry.

I think the point flew way over your head. Dallas' image needed cleaning up because of incidents like those with Irvin or Eric Williams, meaning the trend started way before Parcells got here. Jerry had already started to focus on character and discipline as an essential element in drafting a player, and that is why we didn't draft Randy Moss despite the fact that WR was in an area we desparately needed way before Parcells got here. That is why he hired Calvin Hill before Parcells got here.

 

[jem88]

I think the point flew way over your head. Dallas' image needed cleaning up because of incidents like those with Irvin or Eric Williams, meaning the trend started way before Parcells got here. Jerry had already started to focus on character and discipline as an essential element in drafting a player, and that is why we didn't draft Randy Moss despite the fact that WR was in an area we desparately needed way before Parcells got here. That is why he hired Calvin Hill before Parcells got here.

You know what, I was thinking about this the other day. The fact that earlier this decade, our prominent skill players on offence included the likes of Quincy Carter, Antonio Bryant and Troy Hambrick shows that the shady-character filter wasn't working so well. Parcells deserves credit for quickly getting rid of that element after his first year.

 

[Dodger12]

I think the point flew way over your head. Dallas' image needed cleaning up because of incidents like those with Irvin or Eric Williams, meaning the trend started way before Parcells got here. Jerry had already started to focus on character and discipline as an essential element in drafting a player, and that is why we didn't draft Randy Moss despite the fact that WR was in an area we desparately needed way before Parcells got here. That is why he hired Calvin Hill before Parcells got here.

Yes, it obviously flew over my head. If the trend was Jerry focusing on character and discipline as an "essential" element and that , you sure couldn't tell with the likes of Blade, Bryant, Larrimore, QC, and Ross off the top of my head. Not to mention other guys whose work ethic was seriously questioned but were picked any way.

 

[BigDFan5]

Who gives a damn, Parcells QUIT, Phillips has us at 12-1.

This season credit goes to the team, Pillips and the FO

 

[Nors]

I think the point flew way over your head. Dallas' image needed cleaning up because of incidents like those with Irvin or Eric Williams, meaning the trend started way before Parcells got here. Jerry had already started to focus on character and discipline as an essential element in drafting a player, and that is why we didn't draft Randy Moss despite the fact that WR was in an area we desparately needed way before Parcells got here. That is why he hired Calvin Hill before Parcells got here.

That went out the window when he started drafting Goodrich, QC, Ross, A Bryant, Larrimore - He also went after Spellman, Underwood? in that era also.

JJ just screwed up on Moss - Period.

 

[goshan]

I see...I see...so Parcells was over ruled on Spears but not on Fasano and Carpenter, even though we had a budding star TE already in place in Witten. And he didn't want Newman and was over ruled but was able to skip on Witten....funny how that works when you get a guy you supposedely don't want (Newman) but are able to skip on a guy the others want (Witten).

Of couse, you "think" the latter part of the 2005 draft was turned over to Ireland who, by the way, couldn't over rule BP on Fasano and (later) Carpenter, but could on Newman (or would that be JJ/Lacewell) and Ware. Ireland then chose Nathan Jones, Patrick Crayton, and Jacques Reeves. Not Parcells. That would be because BP had no say in the first, did in the second, but not in the 7th....got ya.

Then, of course, "you think" in 2006 that BP was responsible for Carp and Fasano but "Ireland brought him and Jones around to Hatcher, Watkins, and McQuistan". A roomful of scouts, an Owner/GM, VP, and personnel guy couldn't over rule him on the "questionable" picks in the 1st and 2nd round but darn if they didn't take charge of the second day. Brilliant move to save the franchise!!!

Oh, and Witten being available in the 3rd round was "luck" because they didn't over rule BP on Al Johnson, even though they over ruled BP on every other major selection (according to you). But Ireland/Jones/Scouts/Crystal Ball, etc., over ruled BP who wanted Spears because they knew he'd be there with our second pick in the first round but couldn't forsee that Witten would be available with our 3rd because, of course, that was luck that he fell.

Good thinking...............

JJones was clearly making the draft decisions based upon input from Parcells and the scouts. He is the GM. It isn't about over-ruling. It is about the GM deciding based upon, in some cases, contradictory input from his head coach and scouts.

JJ built this team by deciding when to go with Scouts versus the HC - why is that so difficult for people to understand.