BPA more important now than ever

[RS12]

Yep.guys here are acting like only QBs Bust OUT but I bet the DBs bust rate is higher in the first round.

Actually I think I read highest bust rates were WR and D Line after QB.

 

[darthseinfeld]

I don't know why we can't possibly have both Jones and Ramsey at safety. As I mentioned, neither Malcolm Jenkins or Walter Thurmond are true SS by any stretch. In fact, both were converted safeties. The game has changed. And I'd rather have a textbook, sure tackler than a guy like Church who can lay the wood, but is inconsistent with his tackling.




YR

Both Ramsey and Jones to me are single high safeties. I think playing both in a Cover 2 would be a huge waste of resourses. One I could see. But both would be a waste IMO

 

[texbumthelife]

Both Ramsey and Jones to me are single high safeties. I think playing both in a Cover 2 would be a huge waste of resourses. One I could see. But both would be a waste IMO

Wow, you and I are seeing two very different players.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Wow, you and I are seeing two very different players.

As far as what?

 

[JW82]

BPA at a position of need. If we took a Linebacker at 5 and 37 comes up and we have available a TE rated as our 28th best player and a QB that is our 40th best player, you take the QB. Have to be reasonable with the BPA approach.

 

[texbumthelife]

As far as what?

I think Ramsey projects better as a modern prototypical SS. He will make his name and money covering tight ends and making QB's pay in those short to intermediate zones. I don't see a guy I would put in a single high position. I think doing that goes away from where his real talents are. Now, I am not saying the guy can't cover and/or isn't athletic, I just don't think putting him back there maximizes his skills.

 

[texbumthelife]

BPA at a position of need. If we took a Linebacker at 5 and 37 comes up and we have available a TE rated as our 28th best player and a QB that is our 40th best player, you take the QB. Have to be reasonable with the BPA approach.

I am telling you right now, do not be shocked if this team takes a TE. Perhaps one of the guys from Stanford... They have married themselves to the 12/22 personnel and with Witten not getting any younger and Escobar a free agent and out for a year, they're going to address the position.

 

[ghst187]

You can see in my sig my draft philosophy. I think we are going to have enough cap space in the offseason to fix any immediate needs like CB/S and maybe even WR.
Since the likelihood of us drafting in the top 5-6 is HIGHLY unlikely in the next few years IMO, I think if we grade out Goff or Lynch as worth that pick then we should take him. Green Bay and NE stayed relevant by drafting a QB even when they had a good one, meanwhile we passed on Aaron Rodgers and we've only been relevant about 3-4 years in the past 20. The position is just too important, if you get a chance to get one you think may be great, you take him no matter what. Beyond that, I think we're pretty decent in the trenches right now (and young there) so the obvious thing we lacked this year was purely playmakers on both sides of the ball. Beyond Dez and Dunbar we didn't have anyone capable of making big plays, esp at WR. On defense, we have no one in the secondary capable of getting a turnover or INT and outside of Lee, no one in the LB corps capable of making a big, game changing play. So in other words, we need playmakers all around.
So i offer my playmaker draft. I think Elliott is a playmaker that would put our offense back on track like last year. Meanwhile I expect Dunbar to be back to give us that speed threat out of the backfield. We HAVE to upgrade at WR. Street is freakin terrible and should be cut. On defense, I know a lot of folks will downgrade OLB Striker due to his size but you just can't underestimate guys that make plays. I also like the Iowa CB, King and anyone else back there that makes plays. I took the S from Boise because he gets INTs. I would take DT Billings if he's there too since the guy lives in the backfield. Playmakers, pure and simple, get some more and we'd be where we want to be, other than the coaching....which is another story

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Both Ramsey and Jones to me are single high safeties. I think playing both in a Cover 2 would be a huge waste of resourses. One I could see. But both would be a waste IMO

We hardly ever play Cover 2 and it's been that way since Marinelli took over.

We've played a lot more man and Cover 1 this year. We played a lot of Cover 3 last year and the SS responsibility is more short and intermediate zone coverage.

We need a SS that can allow the defense to mix up zone and man coverages. Wilcox is pretty good in man, Church is a disaster in man coverage. Wilcox is a disaster in zone, Church is better, but that's like saying the urinal cake in the bathroom tastes better than the dog feces in the front lawn.

I would have to see Ramsey's tackling skills. That's one big thing we are lacking all of this. Church is too inconsistent as a tackler and really isn't a great open field tackler by any means. Wilcox is horrendous at tackling.

Maybe go with Ramsey high and Jones more low. And remember, in today's league for the most part most teams have no true FS or SS, both safeties operate both positions from time to time.





YR

 

[JW82]

I am telling you right now, do not be shocked if this team takes a TE. Perhaps one of the guys from Stanford... They have married themselves to the 12/22 personnel and with Witten not getting any younger and Escobar a free agent and out for a year, they're going to address the position.

I will puke. They can get a blocking TE after the draft. They have proven that as long as 82 is playing they will not throw to another TE.

 

[noletime95]

We hardly ever play Cover 2 and it's been that way since Marinelli took over.

We've played a lot more man and Cover 1 this year. We played a lot of Cover 3 last year and the SS responsibility is more short and intermediate zone coverage.

We need a SS that can allow the defense to mix up zone and man coverages. Wilcox is pretty good in man, Church is a disaster in man coverage. Wilcox is a disaster in zone, Church is better, but that's like saying the urinal cake in the bathroom tastes better than the dog feces in the front lawn.

I would have to see Ramsey's tackling skills. That's one big thing we are lacking all of this. Church is too inconsistent as a tackler and really isn't a great open field tackler by any means. Wilcox is horrendous at tackling.

Maybe go with Ramsey high and Jones more low. And remember, in today's league for the most part most teams have no true FS or SS, both safeties operate both positions from time to time.





YR

Ramsey is an Elite tackler that is willing to take on blocks. I think his cover skills are excellent too, so I don't agree wit the notion that he should be covering TE's more often than not. All that said, if you want a true ballhawk, it's Hargreaves. He's the better pure cover guy and he's not afraid of contact. But if I'm trying to cover Calvin Johnson, give me Jalen. It comes down to fit.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Ramsey is an Elite tackler that is willing to take on blocks. I think his cover skills are excellent too, so I don't agree wit the notion that he should be covering TE's more often than not. All that said, if you want a true ballhawk, it's Hargreaves. He's the better pure cover guy and he's not afraid of contact. But if I'm trying to cover Calvin Johnson, give me Jalen. It comes down to fit.

If we run the defense that Marinelli wants to run, we better have good tackling corners over ballhawk corners. And personally, I'm more concerned with our corners' ability to stay with WR's on pick routes. Tough to get INT's on pick routes. So the best you can really hope for is to take the pick routes away and then force the opposing offense to throw down the field some more.

I would not mind seeing us interested in Missour's corners as well as Karl Joseph (safety) out of WVU. Physical corners that should have the ability to take the pick plays away and allow us to mix up man with zone coverage.






YR

 

[coach steele]

In this draft based off the likelihood we will be drafting 4 to 6, QB is liklely going to be BPA. But thats my opinion for Goff and Lynch whom I feel may be overrated as #1 overall prospects, but are easily top 5 level prospects

Isn't that kind of splitting hairs. If a QB is a top 5 prospect, he should be taken as the first pick. There just aren't too many good QB's in this league. I expect top 5 QB's to go to pro bowls and eventually compete for a championship, unless they are a bust.

 

[texbumthelife]

Ramsey is an Elite tackler that is willing to take on blocks. I think his cover skills are excellent too, so I don't agree wit the notion that he should be covering TE's more often than not. All that said, if you want a true ballhawk, it's Hargreaves. He's the better pure cover guy and he's not afraid of contact. But if I'm trying to cover Calvin Johnson, give me Jalen. It comes down to fit.

I certainly wouldn't call Ramsey an "elite tackler" even by safety standards. He will throw his body at a lot of people and not wrap up. He will also over-run plays frequently and rely on arm tackling. It shows up time and time again, even in his highlights. His cover skills are pretty good, but I think he would really struggle to cover NFL receivers one on one, which is why he'll be a safety. As a safety, unless he plays single high, he's going to be covering TE's. It's just a fact of the position. I think keeping him as the under safety in a one high look (where Church plays now) would be the best place for him.

If you think Jalen Ramsey is going to cover Calvin Johnson even remotely as well as Hargreaves, you need to watch a lot more tape. Ramsey isn't going to be covering receivers in the NFL, for good reason. His best tape is as a safety by far, that's where he'll play.

 

[noletime95]

I certainly wouldn't call Ramsey an "elite tackler" even by safety standards. He will throw his body at a lot of people and not wrap up. He will also over-run plays frequently and rely on arm tackling. It shows up time and time again, even in his highlights. His cover skills are pretty good, but I think he would really struggle to cover NFL receivers one on one, which is why he'll be a safety. As a safety, unless he plays single high, he's going to be covering TE's. It's just a fact of the position. I think keeping him as the under safety in a one high look (where Church plays now) would be the best place for him.

If you think Jalen Ramsey is going to cover Calvin Johnson even remotely as well as Hargreaves, you need to watch a lot more tape. Ramsey isn't going to be covering receivers in the NFL, for good reason. His best tape is as a safety by far, that's where he'll play.

I've watched Ramsey for three years, many games more than once. We will agree to disagree and see what happens as his career progresses.

 

[TheCoolFan]

Gimme Jones at CB and Ramsey at safety. Our version of Patrick Peterson and Mathieu

 

[neosapien23]

That couldn't be any further from the truth. Just because we struck out with Mo doesn't mean thats the norm. There are DB's coming into the league having an immediate impact every year. Look at what Marcus Peters did for Kansas City. Look at the impact Byron Jones had here. I don't think Ramsey would be a day one difference maker but I think Hargreaves could be.

I really like Hargreaves much more at CB than Ramsey at FS. Hargreaves is a great talent and would significantly turn around this defense but I think Baltimore or another team is going to break our hearts. I do not like Ramsey at all in the top 10. He is a very good player but has not exhibited any special qualities in my opinion. I would have no problem with trading down and trying to get Ramsey in the 15 to 20 range but not at the top of the draft.

 

[neosapien23]

Gimme Jones at CB and Ramsey at safety. Our version of Patrick Peterson and Mathieu

I would rather have Hargreaves at CB (fingers crossed) and Jones at FS.