BR: NFL Rumors: Competition Committee 'Aligned' on Changing Rule for Hip-Drop Tackles

[America's Cowboy]

Of all the people that come and go here, I can think of only two that use their high school experience as some sort of badge of honor and license to preach. You're truly elite in that respect.

Since you brought us here.... you didn't get any scholarship offers as an almost-elite HS player? Seems like at least some Div 3 team could have used a bonafide badarse like you.

Oh yea... I scored 4 touchdowns in the city championship game! So there!!!

I joined the military. Sacrificed to serve my country. What did you do?

 

[jwitten82]

Lol! He was all state in Texas....it Monday morning and you're already in attack mode. Jeez!

I hate yellow , I hate green.....I hate everything!

 

[blueblood70]

I'm sorry but this is another rule to help the offense because my problem is to tell the difference between an actual hip drop and one guy getting tackled from behind are you supposed to let the guys go that you're chasing down from behind because you're afraid to tackle him backwards and downward which is the only way you typically can grab a guy to get him on the ground..,,,

so we'll have another rule that the officials do not know how to disseminate and full speed on what is actually the rule and what's actually a good tackle because I don't agree that most of these tackles that are called hip drop tackles are just regular tackles how else are you supposed to get a guy down you're supposed should be allowed to get a guy down without grabbing his helmet and then they add in the you can't grab inside the shoulder pads and now you can't grab around the ankles ohh you probably can't hit them below the knee I mean what else how else do we need to govern actual tackling that's actually legal and they're gonna make it illegal???!!!​

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I'm all for trying to keep players safe but at some point they need to take some rules away that are already benefiting the offense I mean they pretty much are making it flag football I mean that's the next step because a lot of these tackles are not hip drop tackles they're the only way to bring a guy down that's big with a full head of steam and you're trying to tackle him from behind you're supposed to just say, ohh never mind go ahead and score???!!​

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This is a better role the guy on offense when he feels himself about to be tackled you just go down really easy he shouldn't try to break tackles so that way he won't get hurt he should literally just fall down as soon as he's grabbed and the guys around his waist and about the hip drop he should just go down he should wave the white flag he should just literally take a knee I mean that's his basically what we're we are headed....​

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so again we should kindly ask the offense player if you feel grabbed in a strong manner ,you should fall down...​

 

[thunderpimp91]

Thats fine. There will be growing pains getting it right. Hopefully refs dont get so loose with it that it effects out comes of games.

My personal opinion on this safety stuff is...call the penalties even if its a gray area. Just call the damn things loosely but not so loosely its effecting outcomes of games.

After a year or two players will miraculously not do the tackle as much anymore for fear of penalty.

Growing pains will suck with the flags...but who wants their leg snapped when it could be avoidable.

In a couple of years refs and players will have it down and the game will be safer for it

And I don't have much issue with that. If they want the play out of the game I can fully get behind that and live through some of the growing pains.

My bigger concern is simply what is allowed based on the verbiage they end up using. There has to be an approved technique for defenders to use in replacement or else you see another disadvantage to defenses. With the style of play in modern football spread offenses, mobile QBs, and designs for getting players the ball in space dominate the game. That's not a bad thing but its lead to a significant uptick in ball carriers getting ran down from behind. Making it overly difficult for defenders to make these plays or forcing them to allow the runner to fall forward every time could create a massive problem.

Ther verbiage I've heard in the past has been eliminating these tackles that have both a drop/pull and a twist motion. That is something I could get more behind as you're eliminating the most violent of those tackles but not completely eliminating the defenses ability to stop a ball carrier. On the flip side does that stop the Tony Pollard type of incident? I don't know if it actually does as I'm not sure that involved any sort of twist.

 

[thunderpimp91]

I'm sorry but this is another rule to help the offense because my problem is to tell the difference between an actual hip drop and one guy getting tackled from behind are you supposed to let the guys go that you're chasing down from behind because you're afraid to tackle him backwards and downward which is the only way you typically can grab a guy to get him on the ground..,,,

so we'll have another rule that the officials do not know how to disseminate and full speed on what is actually the rule and what's actually a good tackle because I don't agree that most of these tackles that are called hip drop tackles are just regular tackles how else are you supposed to get a guy down you're supposed should be allowed to get a guy down without grabbing his helmet and then they add in the you can't grab inside the shoulder pads and now you can't grab around the ankles ohh you probably can't hit them below the knee I mean what else how else do we need to govern actual tackling that's actually legal and they're gonna make it illegal???!!!​

​

I'm all for trying to keep players safe but at some point they need to take some rules away that are already benefiting the offense I mean they pretty much are making it flag football I mean that's the next step because a lot of these tackles are not hip drop tackles they're the only way to bring a guy down that's big with a full head of steam and you're trying to tackle him from behind you're supposed to just say, ohh never mind go ahead and score???!!​

​

This is a better role the guy on offense when he feels himself about to be tackled you just go down really easy he shouldn't try to break tackles so that way he won't get hurt he should literally just fall down as soon as he's grabbed and the guys around his waist and about the hip drop he should just go down he should wave the white flag he should just literally take a knee I mean that's his basically what we're we are headed....​

​

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so again we should kindly ask the offense player if you feel grabbed in a strong manner ,you should fall down...​

I can't say that you're wrong. I really see this as an issue because of offensive schemes in modern football and we are going to penalize the defenses for that. It's the heavy spread offenses and need to get a runner open in space that is the real issue this is a more common issue than in the past.

I think there should be a way to get rid of the tackle but not handicap the defense, but I do worry that the league is going to go too far on this. If you're forcing a defender to let a ball carrier fall forward and not pull back on a runner 2 yards from a first down marker it becomes so much tougher to play defense.

 

[blueblood70]

I can't say that you're wrong. I really see this as an issue because of offensive schemes in modern football and we are going to penalize the defenses for that. It's the heavy spread offenses and need to get a runner open in space that is the real issue this is a more common issue than in the past.

I think there should be a way to get rid of the tackle but not handicap the defense, but I do worry that the league is going to go too far on this. If you're forcing a defender to let a ball carrier fall forward and not pull back on a runner 2 yards from a first down marker it becomes so much tougher to play defense.

Yeah but there's a reason I'm saying it's wrong because more than half of the ones that were claiming a hip drop tackle happened in my opinion we're not a hip drop tackle it looks a lot like a normal tackle most of the time how else are you supposed to grab a guy and get him to the ground except for to use your weight that literally is how you're supposed to tackle the big guys use their weight to get a guy down to the ground whether it be by force or by dragging him down that is literally the definition of a tackle you can't always be in front of them and put your shoulder down into his chest and wrap him up because that's not what angles are on football fields....


My point is the referees will not know how to officiate it properly you'll think all tackles are now hip drop tackles ohh but it will be at the most inconvenient time in the game when they need to affect the game most wink wink wink...

It's another way for them to stop the game and affect the outcomes and the scores and I'm really just tired of it football is a game of angles guys are running away they're running sideways they're almost never in a position to where you can tackle a guy downhill what we call a form tackle now almost every place on a guy is illegal now stay away from his head stay away from his knees now we can't put weight on the guy I mean it's getting quite tiresome...

 

[FanofJerry]

And I don't have much issue with that. If they want the play out of the game I can fully get behind that and live through some of the growing pains.

My bigger concern is simply what is allowed based on the verbiage they end up using. There has to be an approved technique for defenders to use in replacement or else you see another disadvantage to defenses. With the style of play in modern football spread offenses, mobile QBs, and designs for getting players the ball in space dominate the game. That's not a bad thing but its lead to a significant uptick in ball carriers getting ran down from behind. Making it overly difficult for defenders to make these plays or forcing them to allow the runner to fall forward every time could create a massive problem.

Ther verbiage I've heard in the past has been eliminating these tackles that have both a drop/pull and a twist motion. That is something I could get more behind as you're eliminating the most violent of those tackles but not completely eliminating the defenses ability to stop a ball carrier. On the flip side does that stop the Tony Pollard type of incident? I don't know if it actually does as I'm not sure that involved any sort of twist.

How about keep it simple.

Both sides be reasonable...players and refs.

Players know that falling on a players legs can cause injuries during a tackle. Twisting a player down to the ground like steer wrestling and falling on the players legs in the process should be a penalty. Assuming this is real...the brain is quick enough to make decisions on the fly to prevent the hip drop. Players tackling and punching at the ball in the process of tackling is perfect example of how the brain is quick enough.

Im not good with words...but every dangerous hip drop tackle I have witnessed seems preventable...easily. Are there a few gray areas where MAYBE the tackler is not at fault...Im sure. And those instances is where the refs should be reasonable. But to not implement a safety rule because of those FEW gray areas...would be stupid. Just because there is not perfect verbiage for a dangerous tackle you do nothing? Seems archaic.

The league should make like a 1 hour video of all hip-drop tackle variations and show players what is allowed and what isnt. In that video they should explain to the viewers/players that the league thinks that dropping to the ground on the ball carriers legs was preventable and the brain was quick enough to prevent it....that twisting the ball carrier to the ground from an above the waist tackling and falling on the players legs was preventable and the tackle would still have been made AND the brain was quick enough to choose a different way to get the carrier to the ground.

Just make a video...for Teams to play the video explaining why this tackle is dangerous and why the league thinks there was a better way to do it.

Its all pretty simple to me. Its posters that want perfect verbiage when they know there is none that want to call this a rule wussifying the league and want to run this thread into the ground with negativity. Just be reasonable

 

[Creeper]

I would love to eliminate the injuries from these tackles. I have always said the horse collar tackle was only dangerous because it involved a player falling on the back of the legs of the ball carrier as he pulls the ball carrier backwards. But I wonder how they are going to enforce any rules about this on the field. I suspect they will only call the hip drop if it is clear and obvious. They cannot make landing on the back of the legs a penalty all the time.

 

[thunderpimp91]

How about keep it simple.

Both sides be reasonable...players and refs.

Players know that falling on a players legs can cause injuries during a tackle. Twisting a player down to the ground like steer wrestling and falling on the players legs in the process should be a penalty. Assuming this is real...the brain is quick enough to make decisions on the fly to prevent the hip drop. Players tackling and punching at the ball in the process of tackling is perfect example of how the brain is quick enough.

Im not good with words...but every dangerous hip drop tackle I have witnessed seems preventable...easily. Are there a few gray areas where MAYBE the tackler is not at fault...Im sure. And those instances is where the refs should be reasonable. But to not implement a safety rule because of those FEW gray areas...would be stupid. Just because there is not perfect verbiage for a dangerous tackle you do nothing? Seems archaic.

The league should make like a 1 hour video of all hip-drop tackle variations and show players what is allowed and what isnt. In that video they should explain to the viewers/players that the league thinks that dropping to the ground on the ball carriers legs was preventable and the brain was quick enough to prevent it....that twisting the ball carrier to the ground from an above the waist tackling and falling on the players legs was preventable and the tackle would still have been made AND the brain was quick enough to choose a different way to get the carrier to the ground.

Just make a video...for Teams to play the video explaining why this tackle is dangerous and why the league thinks there was a better way to do it.

Its all pretty simple to me. Its posters that want perfect verbiage when they know there is none that want to call this a rule wussifying the league and want to run this thread into the ground with negativity. Just be reasonable

No issue with what you're saying for the most part. I'm just holding judgement on what the league decides until we see what actually is allowed. Removing a move that is unsafe will get no argument from me, but you have to be able to provide a suitable replacement technique. I think a lot of people are underestimating just how often these tackles occur. This isn't something that happens in just 1-2 games every week. Its a frequent play that this ruling will have a substantial impact on the game.

 

[thunderpimp91]

I would love to eliminate the injuries from these tackles. I have always said the horse collar tackle was only dangerous because it involved a player falling on the back of the legs of the ball carrier as he pulls the ball carrier backwards. But I wonder how they are going to enforce any rules about this on the field. I suspect they will only call the hip drop if it is clear and obvious. They cannot make landing on the back of the legs a penalty all the time.

Agree completely. I have no issues getting rid of the play but how you actually word a rule and how that actually gets enforced will be difficult to do IMO. Not saying it's impossible but this will be tricky to get right.

 

[FanofJerry]

I would love to eliminate the injuries from these tackles. I have always said the horse collar tackle was only dangerous because it involved a player falling on the back of the legs of the ball carrier as he pulls the ball carrier backwards. But I wonder how they are going to enforce any rules about this on the field. I suspect they will only call the hip drop if it is clear and obvious. They cannot make landing on the back of the legs a penalty all the time.

I think the ones that should have severe penalty are the ones where the tackler tackles up top and then purposely lifts his body off the ground and swings his own feet up in the air like a cowboy wrestling steer.

I dont think there is perfect wording...but I think you can kind of start with this:

If you decide to approach a tackle by tackling up top...you cannot purposely lift your body off the ground using the ball carriers body to do so. You cannot tackle up top and use the ball carriers body for leverage to get them to the ground.

Something along those lines. And thats not even how some of these tackles go. But to start...you should not be allowed to ride a ball carrier for any reason. Trevon Diggs should not be allowed to ride Derrick Henry to the ground.

I think its pretty simple to be honest and a League video should clear things up easily.

 

[FanofJerry]

Agree completely. I have no issues getting rid of the play but how you actually word a rule and how that actually gets enforced will be difficult to do IMO. Not saying it's impossible but this will be tricky to get right.

Have a rule worded with VIDEO showing why and what. Pretty simple.

I think what will turn this into a 10 page debate is people complaining about wording when there is no perfect wording.

Its 2024 and most restaurants still dont have pictures on their menus. IT WOULD CLEAR UP CONFUSION AND HELP EVERYONE!

 

[thunderpimp91]

Have a rule worded with VIDEO showing why and what. Pretty simple.

I think what will turn this into a 10 page debate is people complaining about wording when there is no perfect wording.

Its 2024 and most restaurants still dont have pictures on their menus. IT WOULD CLEAR UP CONFUSION AND HELP EVERYONE!

Again I have no issues with what you're saying, and that absolutely will happen, but it's an oversimplification of the issue. I still need to know what would be on that video before saying I agree with it lol. Just because a menu item has a picture doesn't mean I want to order it....although I'm a huge fan of pictures on menus and would vote for any politician who ran on making that federal law.

 

[DallasEast]

I was that light CB chasing down bigger backs and WR's from behind. I always stayed away from the knees, but sometimes it came down to either being dragged down the field or using my body weight to get the guy on the ground. Back then it was just football. Nobody ever got hurt, or complained. Got tackled that way plenty of times, as scat back/WR.

I never got All State honorable mention though, so what do I know....

I have seen the same thing. My coaches made players work extremely hard in the weight room. Build up our upper body strength along with lower body. Coaches always said, "A guy cannot run if their knees are locked up." Or something like that. It's been a while, lol.

 

[America's Cowboy]

The point is, nobody cares what I "did", and I don't feel the need to fluff up a fragile ego by making it known, unless it truly fits in the context of the discussion, and never in an "I'm better than you" manner. You do you, though.

Hint: That doesn't apply to just me. ;-)

So you were a skinny and scrawny guy playing CB but who had no business playing Defense since you couldn't tackle? But you want to give advice on tackling?

 

[DallasEast]

More conversations about tackling = thread remaining open.

More conversations about Ex-Jocks & Thunderdome = thread moving closer to lock.

 

[big dog cowboy]

The NFL Competition Committee is reportedly working to remove hip-drop tackles with a new rule, per NFL.com's Judy Battista.​

This seemed like a popular topic when I started a couple of threads about it during the season. Everyone want to see something done.

 

[RodeoJake]

How about the NFL put horns on players helmets and encourage tacklers to dog them like a steer?

 

[plymkr]

It ended the playoff game. SF knew what they were doing and that was their intent.

I agree. That’s why I want it gone. Anything used intentionally and ended seasons should be removed. It’s dirty and dangerous.

 

[MarcusRock]

I agree. That’s why I want it gone. Anything used intentionally and ended seasons should be removed. It’s dirty and dangerous.

How does one determine it was intentional in Pollard's case but there's no chatter about intent in Dak's case?